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Still puzzled by Ollies bullpen moves. Yesterday in game 2 he goes with Gallegos late and down one. Gallegos has done well for us in the past but is probably the most ineffective bullpen guy we had. Got burned again and we go into the ninth down 5 instead of 1.
Also if Libratore is our long relief guy why has he been used late and on succesive days. He is probably unavailable for long relief until at least Friday or later. Romero, Kittersdge and Helsley work fine for 7,8 and 9. Why keep messing around. And I do understand you can’t use that trio every day–but Gallegos.
Maybe Mo wants a manager who does what he says. Most of the Cardinal field staff has little championship background as field staff.
Almost everyone is underperforming. That is a bad sign. And I also feel they are just going through the motions. I know you are supposed to keep and even keel but it would be nice to see a little more emotion.
I feel that they know they in a deteriorating system.
I have felt that Whitey has been the best Cardinal manager in their history. He had an eye for not just talent but for winning ball players and was a very smart game manager. Saw him outmaneuver the Cubs for a win in Wrigley once. Don’t remember the details but a late inning move that left the Cubs at a disadvantage.
I believe had he remained as General Manager he would have excelled there as well. When Gussy gave up control of the team it really hampered Whitey and certainly led to his retirement.
One of the greatest Cardinals ever. RIP and condolences to his family.
Ollie has no sense of roles. If Thompson is to be long relief he should have been in the game in the 6th and probably the 7th. That would have got them to their stress inning guys in the 8th and 9th. If he was going to use Thompson then Pallante should not have been in the game. No saying that because he got torched but because players need to understand their role on the team. They are more comfortable and know what to expect. Sometimes I wonder if Ollie has any semblence of a plan.
And starting a game with more than one regular on the bench. Winn has been going great. Why rest him now. If he needed to get Crawford some game time, there is always the DH. Then if he was going to give Winn the day off why bring him in in the middle of the game. Giving a player a day off and then using them for anything other than a late inning pinch hitting role makes no sense.
When players are uncertain about their role on the team that effects their play. Tony LaRussa was a genius at identifying roles for players and using them as planned.
Ollie continues to make stupid bullpen decisions. Got away with it today but having a guy make his major league debut down one run in the 8th inning is not a smart decision. He had all spring to establish a 7th, 8th and 9th inning relievers but goes with a major league debue in the 8th in a tight game.
And I agree. He is platoon obsessed. Why take Winn out of the lineup when he has been going good. If he wanted to get Crawford in the lineup there is always the DH spot. And if Walker is the regular why pinch hit for him. His record last year should have earned him a solid regular status.
These kind of moves has to be a disrupting factor in the clubhouse.
Also it appears to me that we are hitting an abnormal number of popups. Wonder if they are still following the Albert strategy of pull and loft. Mo was so enamored with that approach that he fired a successful manager because of the conflict over that. And a relatively inexerienced hitting coach would not dare disagree with Mo.
Same formula that put us in last place last year.
Keeping Goldy hitting second and putting Gorman, a strikeout risk in the key #3 position.
Using set up bullpen guys in the critical 8th and 9th inning. Should have pulled Palante as soon as the lead off hitter got on. Pallante is not a 8th or 9th inning guy. It is early in the season, why go more than one inning with a relief pitcher.Who are Ollie’s 8th and 9th inning guys. He seems to be cool toward turning the 9th over to Helsley and gives up on him the first time he gives up a run.Why was King even out there. He is not a critical inning guy.
I thought it was stupid to bring him back for 24. Don’t know what to call this deal.
I can’t remember a Cardinal manager I had less confidence in.I like GameCard’s lineup. Edman can be 1 or 2 but Noot and Donovan are better offensive players. Still don’t see the point in announcing a starting lineup befor spring training even starts. Mo should leave preseason lineups to Pugsley and gang.
I would alsp rotate Donovan, Gorman and Walker at DH, 2B, LF
Noot in RF
I would think a team would want a veteran coaching coaching staff with a young field manager.
The Cardinals seem to be going in the opposite direction.
We should have known and certainly the front office and Ollie should have known we were in trouble with our starting rotation whith an aging Wainwright as a key member if not the #1 starter at the beginning of the season.
Not sure we won’t regret dumping Flaherty and moreso Hudson. I thought both were showing signs of regaining their pre-injury form.
Flaherty certainly didn’t show much at Baltimore though.
#27 Mathews
I have not participated because I saw few minor league games but I think this guy is better than this.
The biggest problem is Mo.
Poor trading, poor record with free agents, no international program, keeping prospects beyond their trade value, etc. But worst of all bringing Ollie back. Ollie did a terrible job in 2023.
Tony LaRusa was a genius at defining roles and getting players who fit and was willing to fill the role. Very few 2023 Cardinals had a well defined role. And that is very important to players.
Donovan is an ideal number one and two guy and possibly number nine but Ollie had him batting all over the lineup a good part of the season. And in and out of the lineup. Donovan probably never knew if he was going to be in the lineup or not or where he would bat in the lineup. Player like to know what role they are going to play.
Apparently Goldy likes to bat second but he rarely batted third and he was probably the only decent #3 hitter we had.
Strikeout guys like Gorman and O’Neill batting second, third and cleanup. He needed to put Goldy third and Aranado 4th and leave them there if on the field.
Players also run hot and cold. Ollie seemed to be obsessed with platooning. Playing Motter with Gorman on the bench. Dropping Walker to the bottom of the lineup with a right hander itching. In late August Edman had two walkoff hits in a row and Walker went 5 for 5 batting 5th. The next day they were batting 7th and 8th. Edman should never bat anywhere but 1,2 or 9.
Ollie never established a 7th, 8th and 9th inning bullpen and kept using middle relievers in games where we were one or 2 runs behind in the 8th or top of the 9th inning usually with bad results.
I don’t think he likes Helsley. Even in 2022 when Helsley was lights out in the pen Ollie kept pushing Gallegos to be the closer and after a few poor outing early in the season he dumped him from the closer role. Then he had Gallegos all over the place but while Gallegos had a poor season the uncertainty of how he was to be used had to weigh on his performance.
Ollie was also very impatient with some while seemingly had a lot of patience with Motter, Verhagen, Stratton.
His handling of Contreras was abysmal. Contreras seems to be a very conpetitive guy and like many joining a new team with a big contract probably was trying too hard and got of poorly and Ollie began messing with him and dumped him as starting catcher very early
Thompson opened the season with 9 straight scoreless outing and after a few poorer ones was off to the minors. Walker sets a franchise record for consecutive games with a hit to start the season and off to the minors when he hits a soft spot supposedly to learn to play the outfild better but was a worse option than Contreras or Burleson who Ollie seemed to have enduring patience with.
I don’t know who the bigger problem is. Mo or Ollie. Mo announces the Ollie will be back and then Ollie starts throwing players under the bus. And Mo might want to wait until after spring training to announce the starting lineup.
I am usually a glass half full person but I am 89 years old and beginning to doubt that I wil ever see another good Cardinal team.
The pundits are not seriously considering the Cardinals for top tier starting pitchers and Mo has a poor track record in selecting second tier pitchers so I don’t have a lot of hopes that we will land a real number one or two starter.
What DeWitt needs to do is get a front office that can really evaluate baseball talent and go after a Bruce Bochy type manager like the Rangers did. And spend up to the luxury tax level.
It is unbelievable that they are standing pat with Ollie. His first year success was largely due to a career year from Goldschmidt, and all-star closing effort by Helsley and a great swan song by Albert. He was a terrible manager this year.
I am a little biased because I was a big Garcia fan and was not critical of the Cardinals international splurge where they picked up Garcia, Arozarena and Oviedo.
But Garcia clearly had two high tools. Power and throwing arm. A key would be who did they keep on the 40 man roster. Today’s roster (probably far from set) includes Naile, Rodriguez, Suarez, Zuniga, Querecuto and Siani. How many of them have big tools.
And why did they give Ravelo and Drew Robinson major league time in 2019 and not Garcia.
I am sure that part of the reason to give up on Garcia was the need to protect others. Wonder how many of them had two above average tools.
In the last 6 or 7 years Mo has come up on the short end of free agent signings and trades even with the addition of Aranado and Goldschmidt.
Add to that 11 international players first signed by the Cardinals played in the major leagues this season. Those 11 players have accumulated a WAR of 81.6 Unfortunately only Herrera remains. Net WAR of those 11 players in 2023 was 16.2 including Alcantara (3.4), Arozarena (3.5), Garcia (4.2), Oviedo (2.0) and Solalno (1.9). Total net WAR for the Cardinals for 2023 was 24.8.
The Cardinals just announced that Ollie is returning next year. Should have been gone at the all-star break.
Ollie’s lineup construction makes absolutely no sense. Maybe Goldschmidt wants to bat second but he needs to bat third for the team. Also for Goldy because they would pitch him different if Aranado is in the on deck circle instead of high strikeout guys like O’Neill. That would also allow them to have a couple of on base guys with speed batting in front of them.
I think he also is way too platoon oriented. In late August Edman had just hit walkoffss two games in a row batting leadoff and Walker batting 5th went 4-4. The next game against the Pirates with a right handed pitcher Ollie has Edman batting 7th and Walker batting 8th.
Also it appears to me that the Cardinals are still using the Jeff Albert approach to pulling everything and the uppercut swing. That got Shildt fired when he protested and wanted to get rid of Albert. I think this one is on Mo rather than Ollie since Jeff is no longer around. Gets more homers in a pitchers park but fewer runs and wins.
Anyone know why Contreras and Gorman were taken out of the game? I can’t watch Baltimore games, Washington or Atlanta games her in North Carolina.
Everything is up to date. For example, the WAR accumulated by Goldy is 22.0 since his acquisition by the Cardinals. For players who have been acquired and subsequently moved on the WAR achieved with their new teams are added as a plus to Cardinal acquisitions. For example The accumulated WAR for Ozuna is 8.4, 4.3 with the Cardinals and 4.1 with the Braves. The entire 8.4 is in the positive trade calculations for the Cardinals.
Unfortunately the better prospects seem to be the infielders where we are pretty solid. None of the pitchers excite me. Mostly typical Mo picks. Guys withoutsolid minor league numbers who he expects to perform better ine major leagues.
At best don’t see much help for 2024
4 all-stars. Unfortunately the only ones that came up through the system are playing for other teams.
We supposedly had a wealth of outfield prospects. The two we have remaining of the dream outfield of O’Niell, Bader and Carlson have a collective WAR of 0. The four that Mo has traded away have acollective WAR of 8.9. Two of them on the all-star teams.
Fired a manager who made the playoffs each year and was voted Manager of the Year because he objected the coaching staff Mo pushed on him. Then the coaches left afer the next season under mysterious circumstances.
Hired a manager who seems to be over his head and making knee-jerk decisions left and right. That is a topic for later.
Has an international program that is contributing nothing to the major league team and has no top 100 international prospects. Everyone wails about the big spending year but Garcia and Arozarena seem to be representing that class pretty well for other teams. Way to go Mo.In all fairness Mo landed Goldschmidt and Aranodo and brought Albert back for a final season. And made deadline trades that helped us make the playoffs. Most of his free agent purchases have been a disaster. He seems to thing an aging player coming off a bad year will suddenly reemerge.
But bottom line Mo will never build a strong team unless he changes his approach significantly.
