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I am with 1TD on the Donovan lapse – you never want to just let a guy score what makes it a one run game in extra innings if you can help it.
Might be kind of rare type of plays, but we can come up with scenarios where giving away that run burned us. Let’s say we got the ball in and Taylor tagged and is at third with one out, rather than just letting him trot home. Next guy flies out and we nab Taylor tagging up, game over. But had we just let him score, there are still only two outs, a 3-2 game and who knows what could have happened.
If hustle isn’t an all the time thing, then you have to make a conscious decision, and sometimes you will decide wrong. I was taught that in pre-highschool baseball.
1TD – I don’t think you’re seeing the big picture on this one. Let’s try a different explanation.
Runner on 2nd. Batter at home singles. Would it have mattered if we had just let the guy score before that? No. Same result. 1 run game with a guy on first.
Runner on 2nd. Batter doubles. Would it have mattered if we just let the guy score before that? No. Same result. 1 run game with a guy on 2nd.
Runner on 2nd. Batters homers. Would it have mattered if we just let the guy score before that? No. Same result. Tie game with winning run coming to the plate.
Runner on 2nd. First 2 guys ground out. Whether they move the runner or not and he scores or not it’s still 2 outs with the tying run at the plate.
The only way it matters is if we get that base runner out while he’s trying to run somewhere and it becomes an extra out on the play (like a caught stealing or doubled off). Those are rare instances.
Today, RHP Andre Pallante went seven innings on a day the pen was short-handed. It is just the 10th time its been done for the #stlcards in 85 games in 2024. His one (in 6 starts) is the same as Mikolas in 18 starts and Lynn in 17. Gibson has 3/16 and Gray 4/15. pic.twitter.com/YaBc0EuaDr
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) July 4, 2024
What about an E? Or a WP? Or 2 WP’s? Or a PB? Or a BK? And I agree about rare instances, J. Rare instances are rare, but the reason they’re rare is because they occur…
The Reds completed a 3 game sweep of the Yankees today and that 3 game sweep occured in the Bronx at Yankee Stadium. Almost anything can happen in baseball.
TD……you are correct on 99% of the posts I’ve seen from you. But this one here fits smack dab into that 1%. You and BicycleMike can make no viable argument for that runner at 2nd base being significant.
Well, that’s why fans like to talk about baseball, Pugs. If we all saw things from the same seat, there’d only be one fan at the ballpark…Haha!
It goes lightyears beyong being a dumb rule, KCB. It completely ruins the concept of baseball being a game with no time limit. It’s as though it were formulated and put into place by someone who detested watching a baseball game and had a strong desire for it to quickly come to an end. Some of the best games I’ve ever witnessed have been concluded in extra innings and none of them were distorted or warped by this inane new rule conjured up by some silly shyster lawyer.
Because in the last 7 days he’s exerted exactly 33 pitches…Obviously that sort of tremendous workload is far beyond what should be brought to bear upon any mortal human being. We’ll be lucky to see him for the remainder of July…
Today, RHP Andre Pallante went seven innings
If a starter makes it to MLB they have the ability to turn in a good start. Pallante went 7 IP for the Cardinals once in 2022. Liberatore turned in 8 and Thonpson 7 last year. What matters is can they consistently keep their team in the game. That has been the problem.
On Donovan not making the play, it’s fine to say “Oh, it’s rare that the run will matter – until that rare play happens. Just make the play the right way, as if it was the first inning.
On the Manfred man rule – I am actually slightly in favor of it, and here is why. The way pitchers are used today, and the investment in them, you wouldn’t want a long game as no manager is going to extend any pitcher in his bullpen more than 30 pitches. And even that is uncomfortable. What would happen is we would see more games where position players are brought in to pitch.
So I am okay with the rule, and the different strategy it brings. Back in the day when teams had spot starters and long relievers, plus starters who would complete half or more or their games, yeah, you could go on for awhile. It’s not that way anymore.
Yeah Bikemike, all anyone has to do is to watch the replay of the sequence of events to know that both Siani and Donovan knew that it was nothing less than paramount to get the baseball back in towards the IF. You saw both players reactions…Haha! And while we differ on the rules in extras, I can perfectly understand the concept of trying to prevent burning thru all those pitchers in a marathon type game. But I think the primary reason it was implemented was simply to get the game over with and the rule just entirely changes way too many dynamics of the game for me to be at all comfortable with it. I guess I should be grateful that they don’t do use it in the post-season. Yet…
The runner wouldn’t have taken a chance on tagging on anything remotely close, since his run meant nothing anyway.
It’s really boils down to simple arithmetic. That second Pittsburgh run cut the Cardinal pitcher King’s margin of error to 1 run.
“Pallante went 7 IP for the Cardinals once in 2022. Liberatore turned in 8 and Thompson 7 last year.”
Wait, what???
“Pallante went 7 IP for the Cardinals once in 2022. Liberatore turned in 8 and Thompson 7 last year.”
Wait, what???
All of these pitchers have turned in 7 or 8 previously. They are all capable of having a great outing. But it is sort of like Gorman launching one. He has the capability, and when he does it, it makes everyone forget about everything else.
“But I think the primary reason it was implemented was simply to get the game over with and the rule just entirely changes way too many dynamics of the game for me to be at all comfortable with it. I guess I should be grateful that they don’t do use it in the post-season. Yet…”
That is true and another reason for the rule. All major sports do this now – they have created overtime rules that keep the games from going on forever.
I would be okay with a hybrid rule in baseball, where we play standard rules through say 12, then go to the runner on second starting in inning 13. But my sense is the Manfred man rule from the 10th is going to be with us for a long time.
“ It’s really boils down to simple arithmetic. That second Pittsburgh run cut the Cardinal pitcher King’s margin of error to 1 run.”
Yep – no matter how you slice it, runner on third, one out and a 2 run lead is better than bases empty, one out and a 1 run lead.
BikeMike, in the middle of the game that is true. In a situation like what happens in extra innings in baseball, those 2 situations are so close to identical that they just don’t matter. The only reason those outfielders looked panicked is because it’s instilled in all of us that we don’t want to allow runs. But fortunately, in extra innings with a 2-run lead, it makes almost zero difference. It might even be an advantage to let the guy score and not worry about him distracting fielders or having them play slightly out of position due to that runner. Would I rather the runner not score? Sure. It looked silly and I like not allowing runs. But did it change our odds to win or lose? Not even one iota.
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