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Jack certainly could be the ace when healthy..thats the big concern. and coming back from shoulder issues is much tougher than even TJ. If ST shows the young talent is still sitting guys down then they should certainly be the first to get opportunity. (specifically Zach and Woody.) Both had superb years last year.
I think Monty and Miles are solid, but Matz and Waino iffy.? It is time to cut ties with Hudson, he really struggled last year; maybe the TJ injury, but than likely just finds throwing strikes difficult.
–starting 5 are set going into ST. Jack, Miles, Monty, Matz & Waino.
the pen 8 I would have: Gio, Hels, Zach, Woody, Pallante, Hicks, Cabby + Stratton. – with the last two being the first to ride to Memphis, for maybe Romero, Packy or Kodi.This list looks about right at this point in time.
But replace VerHagen with Woodford, Cabrera with Thompson, and move Hudson to the Triple-A rotation until he’s needed in the majors — and add Pacheco or Packy in his place — and you’ve got something really good.
Reminders from 2022:
VerHagen 6.65 ERA and 6.53 FIP. Woodford 2.23 and 3.13.
Cabrera 4.63 and 5.62. Thompson (relief only) 0.91 and 3.18.
But all of this would obviously require a commonsense, merit-based usage of pitchers, rather than spin rates or salaries or swinging strike data. A man can dream, can’t he?
Also, the Fan graphs expectation for Woodford and Thompson is a joke>! who the heck makes up these
figures…..must be a Cubs fan.Have to agree with 552. he was certainly mis-managed this year. no, he’s not a savior by any means, but he is certainly better than many of the guys who got several starts last season. But, 2023 will bring a whole new wave of minor league guys, so ST will sort it all out.
Until then, all have a Happy Holiday.Bottom line, regardless of your thoughts he is under utilized and I actually hope he goes to another team that will give him the chance he has earned.
It doesn’t matter if Woodford was in aaa. The fact that he was in aaa in the first place was a big mistake.! He should have been up all season, providing the option for the various starts we needed. It is certain that he would have provided the team a better chance of success.
Nice Steve. That would have been a pretty good 1,2,3.!
Alcantara, Gallen and Woodford, plus would have a couple more good starters and the team would be
way better off.1tough, very true on the limited opportunities to make up game in a division when the games played vs each other has been reduced. The new schedule has pros and cons. Will be nice to see teams who normally don’t play each other during the season square off.!
Well said, Cardsfan. Limiting runs is the name of the game, and I think some people must have forgotten this as they are so focused on strike outs. Strike outs certainly have a place, but are not the only factor in a good pitcher. A strike out takes a min. of 3 pitches, while a ground ball can be done in 1.
Woodfords runs allowed in one of the lowest on the squad, along with Hels and Zack. period.BReed, great post. I think you are dead on with the starts MARMOL gave to guys simply not able or ready to start at the MLB level. Woodford was the obvious choice for those starts and it was talked about time and time again during the season….”Why isn’t Woodford starting?” Woodford was having a very good season and although he wasn’t burning up the radar like some guys, he was “pitching”! Hitting his spots, varying pitches ect…
Bob, good post: the first 7 players on this list should be the spring favorites to be in the pen to start 2023.
Hicks, Cabby, Verhagen all need to get better, they lose control, which leads to walks, which leads to more pitches over the plate, which means runs! Sure, Hicks and Cabby can throw the ball really, really fast, but when you give up runs at which they did last year, IT DOES NOT MATTER!
——————————These are some ERA’s from 2022, when used in relief:
Zack Thompson 0.91 over 29.2 IP
Helsley 1.25
Woodford 2.30
Pallante 2.35
Stratton 2.78
Gallegos 3.05
Naughton 3.24Hicks 4.37
Cabrera 4.63
VerHagen 6.65correct bccran, its the balancing act all teams have to face. Cards problem is they have 1 starter who has aged well, but still has aged and never know when a injury will hit: and then have 2 starters who missed major time last season in Matz and Jack… and of the 5 starters now being assumed for 2023, none of them will concede to a Reliever role, it would have to be some sort of trade.
ZTR, you are probably right with the injurys!
Tough to see Jack coming back, shoulder problems are very hard to overcome.. although I hope he does.Interesting question, I would have to say Woodford.
He has gotten better every year and if he can sustain what he did last season, with added
innings, then he will be a legit spot starter/long relief guy.
Now some may think last season was a fluke, but I think he has the stuff and confidence to continue
his hi level of pitching for the Cards or another team. 50 inngs may not be enough for judgement, but it certainly is getting attention.They really need to keep this guy, he has gotten better every year.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/woodfja01.shtmlThe site is correct. Jack is too unreliable and Greevy has zero mlb time. Woodford still young with another year before arbitration and he is coming off a very solid year. BW, disappointing.
Pitching roster for 2023.
SP-Monty,Miles,Jack,Waino,Matz.–= 5
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RP-Gio,Hels,Hicks,Andre,Zack,Woody,Stratton,…+1?.= 8
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AAA/Trade – Cabby,Hudson,Vhagen,Packy,Thomas,Libby.
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Alt. SP’s – Andre,Woody,Libby,Hudson.
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Plus any trades/moves to be made.? Then of course injuries are a huge concern
for this group: Jack,Matz,Hicks,Waino.–(just because of age.)In regards to either keeping or trading Woodford. The Cards would be wise to keep him and give him more of a role in 23, as he certainly showed his work in 22. Woodford was this last year on the staff:
era – 4th
whip – 7th
hr’s allowed – 2nd (only 1)
IP – 10th (was not give enough opportunities!)
Avg. 9th.
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In 27 appearances, 21 of them resulted in zero runs! 24 of them 1 run or less!
But, if the FO stays the course, they will not use him; so I hope for his sake and his career he gets traded to a team that will respect what he can offer. as the Cards clearly have not done to this point.Reyes, Hudson, Stratton should all be gone. Give Woodford more of an opportunity, as he certainly made the most of it last year!
Waino should hang up his cleats. He has had a super career. Now he will be flirting with the “I should have retired” scenario that players face when they realize they should have gone to spend more time with their family. He would help the Cards out more if he came back as a pitching coach or assistant.
