Questions For 2023

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  • #204067
    Ratsbuddy
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    Now that 2022 has come and gone it’s time to start looking towards 2023. Opening Day will be here before we know it. Here are some idle thoughts/questions/comments with regards to the 2023 Redbirds. Feel free to post your responses as well.

    1) Rotation – Mikolas, Montgomery, Hudson, Quintana, Flaherty. What about Wainwright? And what about Matz? Will Hudson be the odd man out? And where does Liberatore fit in?

    2) Gorman – what’s going to happen with him? Can he learn to quit striking out all the time? Will he be the DH next year?

    3) Yepez – Is he also going to be the DH against lefties? And a backup outfielder?

    4) The outfield – who’s going to be the main players? Carlson? Nootbaar? O’Neill?

    5) Catcher – are we going with Knizner as the starter?

    6) Shortstop – are we content with Edman at SS and Donovan at 2B?

    7) Burleson & Walker – are they mid-season callups? Can Burleson be in the mix for one of the starting outfield jobs or is he back at AAA? And how soon might Walker be ready?

    8) Free Agents – are we going to pursue any? Most say we need an Ace starter, maybe a catcher, and another bat in the lineup. Who might we pursue? Contreras perhaps?

    9) Dickerson – will he be brought back? I am going to assume the answer is no.

    10) DeJong – what becomes of him? Will he become the backup SS?

    Anything else?

    Thoughts?

    r/Esteemed Rat

    #204074
    bccran
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    My guess is that they’re set with an infield of Arenado, Edman, Donovan, Goldy, and Gorman. I don’t think DeJong will be back with the team.

    Outfield is interesting. The wildcard is O’Neill. Potential to be the best all around player out there with health and 2021 production. Plus he can also play CF. Carlson? He was still very young this year and has a relatively high ceiling. Pencil him into CF. Nootbaar surprised a lot of people this season. Especially me. Gotta pencil him into RF for the time being. His enthusiasm is contagious. Deluzio has a chance of remaining the late inning CF defensive replacement and pinch runner. The wild cards are Yepez, Burleson, Walker, and maybe Gomez. Some infield versatility with the first 3. And of course the DH possibility for all 4. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if they picked up another experienced outfielder as they did with Dickerson. Myers? Duvall? Gamel? Brantley? Peralta? Benintendi? Pederson?

    #204078
    Cardinal in France
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    The Cards went over 3 million in attendance again so there is little incentive for extraordinary spending by the guy with the bucks. I think we can expect the usual tinkering this winter.

    Unless there is some internal friction we are unaware of there is no reason to assume Marmol will not be back with his musical lineups and pitcher management.

    They may finally suck it up and say adieu to Dejong.

    Much as I admire Wainwright, I don’t think he’s got another year in him as a starter.

    Of course I agree with others on the priorities for starting pitching and catcher.

    I’d like to see Edman installed permanently at second. On the other hand we need to find a permanent starting spot for Donovan.

    We should lower our expectations for Flaherty and Gorman.

    #204084
    1982 willie
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    Well I would like to see some big gets but I doubt it happens. Are we going to pay for another big bat since we are already paying for goldy and arenado if he stays. I don’t see them getting a big-time starter. They may resign quintana. Waino I think should retire but he probably won’t. I see them just doing bits n pieces and hoping n praying magic happens. Winning the division is doable again just because I don’t see the reds or pirates getting much better. Cubs might spend but who knows. Brewers could become more difficult if they go out n get some more offense. I think ownership will figure if we can just get back to the playoffs, things will change with arenado and goldy cause that’s what analytics say but I don’t know. I can say this, if we never have great playoff success while goldy n arenado are here, their tenure will be tainted. You can’t blame pitching this year.

    #204087
    1toughdominican
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    1982willie…No question about what you mentioned about Goldy and Nado. If the Cardinals don’t win a WS Championship while those two are situated at the IF corners, they’ll be forever relegated to outstanding players who never delivered the desired product. Not at all unlike guys such as Ted Simmons and Joe Torre. It’s just the way things are in Redbirdland.

    #204089
    1982 willie
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    1toughdominican, I wouldn’t put those players you mentioned there. They were with some really bad cardinal teams and a time when making the playoffs were a lot harder so they didn’t get the chance with the Cardinals to prove things in the playoffs. I don’t think winning a championship is required either. But big time players have to at least show up when they get there. I still think arenado was just a bit unlucky but goldy just might as well not been there. They still have time to change all that though

    #204090
    CariocaCardinal
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    Kninzer
    Goldy
    Donovan
    Arendano
    Edmond
    O’Neil
    Carlson
    Nootbar

    Yepez
    Gorman
    Dejong
    Herrera
    Burlson/DeLuzio

    Waino/Quintana (one or the other)
    Monty
    Mikolos
    Flaherty
    Matz

    Cabrera
    Thompson/Naughton
    Hensley
    Gallegos
    Hicks
    Reyes
    Pallente
    Woodford

    Hudson — traded
    Stratton — traded or non tendered
    Romero — Memphis
    Ver Hagen — Memphis

    My calculations put us at about $165MM payroll with no additions (other than Quintana if Waino.doesnt return)

    The above is based on everyone healthy

    #204091
    1toughdominican
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    1982willie…Well, maybe and maybe not. But I’d say the same thing about names like Clark, Tudor and Coleman. They all played in 2 WS for the Cardinals, but don’t share the same legacies as guys that have played on Championship teams. More recently, Edgar Renteria who played in the ’04 WS was by far a more talented SS than David Eckstein, but the little “Gnat” is the guy Redbird fans revere.

    #204096
    gscottar
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    As I have mentioned in other threads I think most of the roster is already set.

    Waino will probably be back.

    They might bring Quintana back. It depends on his asking price.

    They will probably try to trade DeJong but will have to eat all or almost all of his money to do it.

    I would like to see them go after Contreras but I am skeptical they will. I don’t think a Knizner/Herrera combo will be much better than what we had this year.

    I would try to sign a veteran OF bat like Pederson.

    I would like to see them trade for a true ace like Bieber but I am skeptical they will attempt that.

    #204098
    Steve60
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    Several of you have listed our starting 5 for next year and if your right out ceiling is what we just saw! We can’t and won’t compete for a championship with that starting 5, period! We might win a weak division get a three seed and get crushed by a 6 seed with 2 quality starters way better than ours! I’ve seen that movie already! We need to improve to win but as someone already said the people in power are okay watching this movie over and over because they keep filling seats and making money! It makes it hard to get pumped up about 2023!

    #204102
    1toughdominican
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    Obviously I’m all for adding a stopper type top of rotation pitcher, but I just don’t see that happening. Besides that, one first rate starting pitcher doesn’t necessarily mean that a team advances deep into the post-season. It sure didn’t help the Mets. I saw Max Scherzer get touched up pretty good the other night. I’ll also say that starting pitching wasn’t at all a liability for the Redbirds in the last two games of the season.

    #204104
    Ratsbuddy
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    The Mets had both Scherzer and deGrom and lost in three games to the Padres.

    As many have said, the playoffs are somewhat of a crap shoot. Teams roll up a 7 at times and end up on the outside looking in.

    That’s baseball.

    r/Esteemed Rat

    p.s. just about time to start that 2021 Strat-O-Matic replay.

    #204105
    Steve60
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    If you look at the 8 teams left they 1 and 2 starters are all better than anyone we have! You can look it up! I agree our starters pitched well but with a staff who starts a number 3 for any other of the contenders I just don’t see it happening! If we traded for a Bieber and if Flaherty returned to form we would have a 1 and 2 that could compete with the 8 teams left but those are huge if’s! The last 2 times we have won it we had Carpenter who was a great number 1! We don’t have anyone close to his level right now IMO! But as 1toughD said out starters didn’t lose this series and he is 100% correct! We have other issues like huge holes at SS and Catcher and an outfield with way more potential than productivity but the 8 teams left have holes in their lineups also! They all possess vastly superior starters at the top of their rotations!

    #204106
    1toughdominican
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    The simple nature of the game dictates that in a 3, 5, or 7 game series, good pitching and timely hitting by the KIA Tigers will put them on top of the LA Dodgers. Same as always.

    #204108
    Steve60
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    Yep the three keys to winning on the playoffs is pitching, pitching, and pitching and under out current construction ours is simply not good enough to make a long playoff run!

    #204109
    1toughdominican
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    Steve60…I’m not disagreeing with you, I’m simply pointing out that nothing’s guaranteed and that it’s not in the nature of the Cardinals to spend big on pitching. It’s too risky of a proposition for them. The owners of this team realized their fortunes in the area of capital investment. These types of guys bet on sure things. Not the right or left arms of pitchers…

    #204110
    1982 willie
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    Well actually 1toughdominican, I consider Tudor one of the best cardinal pitchers ever so I give him lots of praise. He pitched well in the playoffs other than that one game that never should have been played. Coleman is well liked though there was some of shenanigans there that cost him some support. Tudor and Coleman are cardinal hall of famers so they aren’t forgotten. Clark was a good player but wasn’t a cardinal long. He was just paid power. Cardinal fans are knowledgeable so they don’t just look at championships. Since winning a championship is hard and sometimes comes down to luck, I just don’t look at that and I don’t think most cardinal fans do. But if you have two players who normally put up great numbers go out there in the playoffs and disappear continually, the fans will remember. Not to that point yet but we will see.

    #204111
    Steve60
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    I agree they won’t spend on a super star arm and that is why we will be having thss conversation next year! But, I’ll still watch every game and root my heart out for them, unless they bring back Paul Dejong! I don’t think I can stomach another year of that! Lol!

    #204112
    1toughdominican
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    1982willie…Without a doubt Tudor had one of the best performances ever in a season for not only a Cardinal pitcher, but for a Big League pitcher. However I’m reasonably certain that if you ask a Cardinal fan to choose between him or Chris Carpenter, the majority would choose the latter. The players that win the last game of the season seem to always be the names that stand out in one’s mind.

    #204113
    1toughdominican
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    Steve60…”Unless they bring back Paul DeJong”….HAHA!

    #204114
    bccran
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    I’ll disagree with Steve. Every good starter has a positive ERA. Wheeler and Nola had positive ERAs. They don’t shut out teams every start. They actually had several pedestrian games down the stretch.
    We should expect to score several runs over the first 5-6 of a game in the playoffs even against good pitching. We didn’t do that, and it cost us. I really hope Quintana is signed. That would give us Mikolas, Flaherty, Montgomery, Matz, and Quintana. Backed up by Hudson, Liberatore, Thompson, Pallante, Parsons, etc. Plenty good enough to win the division. And go far in the playoffs if we just don’t stink it up on offense.

    #204115
    1toughdominican
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    bccran…Lack of any offense has been the undoing in the last two post-season series the Cardinals have played in. As a team they hit a record low of .130 vs. Washington in the ’19 NLCS. I don’t count ’20 as a legitimate post-season, but they were shutout by LA in the 1 game WC in ’21. It’s getting not unlike the Redbird bats are cursed by baseball gypsies come play-off time. I’m beginning to think the expertise of an experienced shaman is in order to perform some sort of ritual to undo the thing…Haha!

    #204120
    1982 willie
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    Well 1toughdominican, first Chris carpenter is a great cardinal pitcher regardless of the word series. Also a lot of people have recentcy bias even in cardinal fan land. Plus far as a career goes, I couldn’t really argue against carpenter being better than Tudor. Personally I have them overall the same, I couldn’t choose

    #204122
    Cardinal in France
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    Too many teams, too many playoffs. Too much greed.

    MLB should reduce to four divisions with only winners going to the post season.

    Yeah, and maybe the sun will rise in the west, too!

    #204128
    Steve60
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    Bccran the reason we hit 130 in 2019 was because they threw Scherzer then Starusburg and then Corbin 3 pitchers that were better than anyone we had and we had no shot! Our pitchers pitched great but not good enough! Those first 2 starters at least took that team to a World Series championship and again we have no one of that quality on our staff! If we go into next season with the starting 5 you list, yes we can win a weak division, yes we can make the playoffs but again we will run into a team with way better starters than we have and again we will be soundly beaten! You can mark it down here and we can come back to it after next year!

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