[thejager]

eh…team hasnt really been AS dominant since we had an in their prime generational all around talent…Pujols

Yadi leaves, Wainwright too…we have some good looking kids no doubt…and having Arenado and Godly in their twilight will be nice…but do we really have anything after that?

I WANT them to be here…but Soto is just as young or younger…and dominant…and seemingly available…

replacing “good” talent is hard but exactly what the Cardinals are good at…replacing or acquiring ELITE young talent isnt really what the Cardinals have done lately..

I want all the kids to be ELITE…maybe they can be…but Soto already IS elite

Cardinals dominated when they had a THIN farm…because they went out and got big time FAs (they have also shown they can keep that momentum with the right team too)

We have built a very nice farm…a farm that produces capable young talent…but have we produced any stars? truly ELITE players? I am not just talking THIS crop…

At times it feels we are just riding the Yadi and Albert HOF greatness when it comes to meaningful impact players from the system…

I accept Soto is a stretch…and it would hurt… but even so…the farm would have more than it did for several years during the early 2000’s, those teams didnt need the farm as much because they used it to produce a consistently successful MLB teams

I mean we had so many HOFers or close it was pretty ridiculous….those dominant teams that so many current fans have built their love of the Cardinals on weren’t home grown teams…Yadi and Albert are all-time great MLB players…that’s rare in and of itself…to expect we can do that again is not fair

Every prospect coming up has to be Pujols or we drag them…and expecting our farm to produce generational ELITE talent is jut not fair nor appropriate.

acquiring Goldy and Arenado was great…filled a void…but let’s not act like we acquired them in their primes….they are great players HOFers probably…but it’s like acquiring Albert for his 2nd 10 years and not his first…and expectations should be as such

Acquiring Soto at his young age is expensive on all fronts…but usually you dont even get a shot at elite talent let alone when they are younger…people are fawning over 27yr olds because they are safe long term bets…. Juan Soto is 23….a 10yr contract even puts him well within his prime at the end…a 12 year he’s still 35…

I don’t see Juan Soto anywhere in our system…I see guys who are promising…good bets for good production…. Gorman is 22…and is NOT Soto…

I’d be willing to pay and give up a lot for a guy who is already MLB top 5 or better at the age of 23

It may not seem like the Cardinals way o doing things….but maybe acquiring a 23yr old ELITE generational talent is more Cardinals than we think…

Albert was 21 his first season…Soto is 23 and been putting up MVP numbers for almost 5 years

I don’t think anyone would think buying Albert Pujols at 23 and riding his first 10 years…was not very Cardinals…in fact maybe it would be exactly what we are missing from our team…a young generational ELITE MVP talent

and i say all of this HATING his swagger and shenanigans at the plate

[thejager]

my worry is that we are looking to kids to solve problems…that just doesn’t seem the best environment for young players to be forced to be the solution…. too much weight on their shoulders IMO

[thejager]

Tough call…but i think you are pretty close..i’d like to think we could come out of it with 2 of Gorman, Edman, Walker still here…i’d add a lower prospect and a better pitching one

Libertore, Walker, Yepez, ONeill, Burleson, Oviedo/Rondon/Thompson, Baez

I’d do that….and it would be tough (and it’s a crazy 7 for 1 deal)

and………. ONLY if i re-sign Soto long term with no opt outs….even if it is crazy expensive

but if so…then do it and don’t look back…he is almost a perfect ballplayer and target

It will set the farm back…but it won’t be entirely depleted
It will force us to utilize FA a bit more than we would need to

It would hurt….hurt bad…but watching Soto every day along with Arenado and Goldy…is worth it

[thejager]

At some point they will need to solve SS

having said that…Montas is still sitting there in OAK wasting starts

what’s it take?

Burleson straight up? Maybe add a pitcher?

[thejager]

I forgot about the option…still…it’s worth a shot

He isn’t coming on a cheapo deal because he doesn’t grade top 10 in defense, or because he has an option.

I think he picks up that option as he will be 30 anyways…but i think the Cardinals can convince him either way seeing as they have no real internal challenge to him…and they arent spending big on Turner when he’s available …in fact Xander may fit perfectly as I think Wynn may be the future at S for the Cardinals but he is probably 3 yrs away…and that would match pretty well with Xander’s contract…especially with DH in play…

He is a very good hitter…he is a fine fielder…he seems to be available…

There has to be a headliner in the deal so…Herrera may fit best…but might not get the attention…perhaps Yepez with his success could slot in?
gotta be a solid pitcher or two…can we sell Oviedo or Thompson high enough? eh…both
another solid upside bat…Burleson

I think for this type of return you need to get a waive of the option…but as we have seen with Arenado it may not have to be “in writing” for it to seem a non-issue

so:
Yepez, Thompson, Oviedo, Burleson

that enough?

[thejager]

Heard speculation for a trade of Bogaerts to Cardinals, it’s all speculation of course, but that is what this thread is for!

With Boston flailing in a stacked AL East, maybe there is a move to be made?

What would it take?

Could we get him without Gorman, Libertore, Walker, maybe Herrera?

Do we believe enough in Knizner to move Herrera while he is hot?

He’s no rental with a 6yr deal just signed through his 33 year season…but at 20million it isnt all that expensive either…especially once we jettison Molina, Wainwright, Pujols and DeJong’s contracts (yes i know DeJong’s has another year)

He probably requires a BIG get or the Sox…and he is probably worth it…just not sure how much to offer

[thejager]

looks better to me: (almost half the ABs)

https://www.lineupexperts.com/baseball/trade-analysis?trade=paul-dejong_for_nick-ahmed

We aren’t going to find someone throwing away a .300 hitting SS with 25HR power. And with his salary he may come cheaper than even my offer.

I am not saying he is the answer of all answers, but there may be some help here

[thejager]

I wonder if we could deal with Arizona for Ahmed, he has his flaws but his a whiz in the field and has a bit of a bat from time to time.

Oviedo + Sosa + lottery ticket lower level kid?

They are having issues at catcher (as i think they see Varsho in CF) so i wonder even if Ali Sanchez could be useful to them, but they may be interested in an OFer too…so if they arent interested in Sosa maybe Capel?

[thejager]

yuck… but in fairness to GG I would have been gawking at Goldy’s play too…it was pretty phenomenal in it’s own right

[thejager]

Happy Opening Day folks!

Go Cards!

[thejager]

-Dejong rebounds 25HR, .260 AVG
-ONeill regresses at plate
-Pujols gets 700
-After early poor performance out of the 5th spot and an injury to one of the starters, Moz calls up JA Happ and brings him in as a band-aid…it doesn’t help. The pitching which saved the Cardinals early last year is the part the fails miserably this year despite the offense being ok.
-Libertore is brought into rotation and fails miserably as he isn’t ready, then revolving door once again of kids and band aids.
-Mo seeing tickets sales drop in the summer because of the poor results, knee-jerk trades for a decent starter to boost interest…unfortunately we trade a major piece…one of Gorman, Walker
-Cardinals miss playoffs and get 3rd place in Central
-Mo is “fired” but they say he is “retiring” or “moving on to other interests”
-Marmol and J.Albert are out the door as well, Girsch too…
-Front office tries to save face by blaming Mo and the coaches…then bringing in expensive manager and new GM

[thejager]

very upsetting they couldn’t offer something up

But I like Montas better… get it done Moz

This rotation is seriously a few minor injuries…i am talking back tweaks and fingernail problems from being so bad it wont matter if the bats are all working at the right time or not

bringing in a strong pitcher like Montas…that shores us up nicely

[thejager]

I dont trust public statements that are convenient to deflecting blame or responsibility or even possible confirmation of unwelcomed rumors

[thejager]

They really need a starter…I don’t see anything in Van Der Hagen that is worth trusting… Woodford is the bets option we have and he is spot starter at best IMO… Reyes is months away at best…Libertore isn’t ready.. Oviedo needs to be in the pen…Rondon obviously isnt getting a shot any time soon

Our 40man is bloated…we need to trade from it and get Manaea or Montas…it may feel knee-jerk MO, but it needs to be done…otherwise you are wasting the last year of the 3 HOFers…

not to mention MO… you REALLY need this season to go well for Marmol otherwise you will be destroyed in the press and questioned about it at every bad series or managing mistake Marmol makes

Manaea is in his last year…you will overpay a little for him, but the A’s can’t ask the world either…trust that you can extend him during the season or in the exclusive window…you will have the money next offseason..and if you can’t re-sign him well..you lose a bit of talent but clear room and clear money to find a better solution

There is a lot on the line for Mo this year with how the Shildt stuff went down…it is in HIS best interest to get a good team out there

Manaea
for
Oviedo/Rondon + Burleson/Yepez + ZThompson/Pallante

add a little more if needed

Get it done

[thejager]

blingboy
“I think the decision had been made before then, probably quite a while earlier. The win streak just made it awkward.”

i think this is dead on

I think the rift happened during the bad offensive stretch, he probably challenged ALbert’s methods, then things straightened out a little, but the pitching was going down…then he spoke up and said he needed real help at the deadline and got nothing…complained…got some throwaways that were obviously brought in to just eat innings and not hurt the prospects growth and confidence

Then they started the winning, and now none of the FO could push back much, they had made their decision to let him die on the field with a bad team…and then crap he got them into the playoffs without any of their help….then they lose… and cut ties immediately…say some “differences” or whatever…install the “Yes man” that Marmol is who agrees with all their planning and won’t tell them they are wrong

Sucks for Shildt..didn’t deserve that…neither did MAtheny really either…but people will just bash on me for that…

and I didn;t like Shildt as a manager..i think he was a poor choice at the time and i really didnt like how he managed and really didn’t liek his “behind the scenes magic” in the clubhouse and how IN MY OPINION was two faced in his clean reputation on the front and then his “good ole boys” behind the scenes when the camera were off of him… I absolutely DO believe that video Arozarena posted got him traded and put out of favor….i hated how he didn’t use Randy and Adolis Garcia for that matter

I didn’t like Shildt as a manager…maybe i will like Marmol…we will wait and see…but how he got the job is just as poor a decision as Shildt getting it AND Matheny for that matter (even though i liked how Matheny managed)…

I will not say he didn’t succeed but it doesn’t mean i liked it… AND it doesn’t mean he deserved how he was treated on the way out…

[thejager]

I like that deal…which probably means it i favoring the Cards too much…

Probably shrink it down for just Manaea

Thompson/Junior, Yepez/Donovan/Burleson, Woodford/Rondon

But hey, I am up for whatever

After Albert signed it does make me feel like there may be other deals in the works to clear space and perhaps help our rotation

Waino, Hud, Mik, Matz, Woodford is pretty underwhelming and every one of them have huge question marks heading into the year

[thejager]

I don’t think you get a second opinion if the first is good… ugh

trade for Montas or Manaea and sign Gsellman to shore up the pitchers

[thejager]

well there’s the expected LH hitter

[thejager]

Man, i’d be in on Montas or Manaea…. Gsellman… and Story to be honest

[thejager]

they were so much closer than they were farther away, shame as their fans are good and deserve to see a winner

if they are selling though…I don’t care about the played out “intra-division deals won’t happen” excuse…call em up and ask about Castillo…see what their price is…

I am very surprised they let Winker go, he seemed a very good new core piece

They have some nice young pitchers and hitters coming, so they may be fun to watch just for that

Still better than Pirates

Who by the way I’d call about Reynolds

I am still of the opinion we need a bat, some kind of dependable bat i don’t even care what side of the plate

[thejager]

MORE BALLS IN PLAY AND MORE BASERUNNERS

3 steps:

-automated balls and strikes, current umps arent 100% so why does the tech have to be? At least the tech can be adjusted daily without egos harmed.

-smaller strike zone, hitter friendly, so hitters know where ball is going and pitchers have to throw it there (and throw it BETTER There if they want to be good) knowing automated balls and strikes eliminate cheating a zone (or at least only being able to cheat a zone briefly before the software can be updated to account for the error)

-ban shift, or extreme shift, so SS and 3b have to be on one side, 2b and 1b on the other.

Bonus:

-umps need to enforce staying in the batters box and pitch clocks, which they should have plenty of time to do without having to worry about balls and strikes (other than calling what they are told) This should be their role anyways, keeping people following the rules, not being the dictator of a zone which SHOULD be non-adjustable and unmalleable

-larger bags for upping stolen base attempts

This gets the tempo up, and hopefully creates more hitting, or at worse more men on via walks and added ability for hit and run or stolen bases.

Length of game is not the issue as much the PACE of the game and the TYPE of of PACE. People don’t seem to care about NCAA football games dragging into 4 hours bore-athons, because there is “exciting” action every 30 seconds.

Baseball needs to up the TYPE of pace, the “exciting” action.

It does not limit the value or cheapen the game to make pitchers have to pitch better to be considered great (just like when they lowered the mound) instead of playing against the umpire they have to p[lay against the batter. The batters have to get better too and can’t get bailed out by leaning over or all the other tactics.

[thejager]

We may see a token Colin Moran type ST invite signing or two, and it seems they are looking to pay for a reliever.

I think it is a mistake and they are only setting themselves up for another failure like Cecil, and Miller after him. Paying for Kelly two-three years ago..sure.. .Tepera before last year sure…. but you are paying for past success of a veteran like Kelly (Miller) and hope for retaining effectiveness (Cecil)

Had they wanted another reliever and were willing to pay they should have just kept Garcia…he got a pretty affordable 2yr deal that he more than earned and he would have been a known commodity.

I just can’t imagine they will spend more than what Garcia wanted. 1yr deals only if anything.

I think they don’t want to spend ANY money…so we will only see ST invites…and that is hard to predict at this point.

I’d prefer a vet OFer, as i still think we are far too thin in the OF…Nootbaar is our only real backup OFer…the rest are part time and potentially painful backups for corner OF

I’d feel a lot better with a veteran to help. If they arent spending money, and might accept ST invites, then it limits the options…maybe guys like Danny Santana, Pillar, Lagares, Souza, B Hamilton, Tauchman…. and those even seem like stretches

[thejager]

I really don’t like Miller but i get the appeal…

however i think his multi position ability is a bit stretched at this point in his career…he was pretty horrendous on defense with the Cardinals

I feel like Donovan fulfills the multi-tool player that combined with Edman is enough flex

Gorman at 3b/2b/OF maybe, and Yepez 1b/3b/OF is plenty too

I’d much rather look for a veteran rotational OFer that can provide some leadership and solid hitting and all around game

But again, SS is the main weakness in the lineup…whether people like it or not… it is either filled with solid defense in DeJOng with a bat that has declined for 3 years with little to prove it is going to get better, or a better defender with one decent year in limited time and questionable pedigree, or Edman…who really doesn’t play SS much and just won a GG at 2b over the guy who won it before him…he’s a more sure bet for hitting expectations, but at SS he is a question mark

A big SS takes care of all the uncertainty, and provides even more flex for all positions (if we get the DH)

C-Yadi
1-Goldy
2-Edman
SS-Story/Correa
3-Arenado
LF-ONeill
CF-Bader
RF-Carlson
DH-DeJong/Gorman/Yepez…flavor of the day/week/month

bench:
C/1-Knizner
1/3/OF-Yepez
2/3-Gorman
SS/2/3-Sosa
OF-Noot

In this scenario it creates opportunity for the DH spot to be who deserves it, or an opportunity to get reps or fix things

Without another sure hitting thing in the lineup (SS or elsewhere), There will be a position with a major question mark on production, to go with questionable contribution from C, CF, and DH as well. That is far too many hopes and dreams to provide a consistent offense

Just like last year we will go into the year with hopes for turnarounds and no one getting worse or injured….and just like last year we will have a sporadic offense that couldn’t hit for a month at a time

That 17 game win streak is diluting the horror and insulting of an offense that was out there especially early on..

[thejager]

Never liked him. But came to Cardinals and did a fine job.

Kudos on the great career and a Cardinal is always a Cardinal!

[thejager]

I don’t want to touch Schwarber, unless he wants to play Catcher again. A DH only guy is not my style nor does it seem the Cards FO

I’d love Conforto, solid hitter

but i’d also consider a Haniger trade and they seem flush with OF prospects and showed interest in Suzuki so they may want to cash in a bit on Haniger as he ends his contract

Haniger isn’t perfect, but would be a nice all-rounder

I don’t expect a FA signing, but if we do i’d rather go big on Story or Correa, they seem like more sure things

I feel a low hanging fruit guy like David Peralta or Dickerson etc. might be the best FA signing we can expect for the offense

A trade feels like the thing Moz will do (and might have had time to work on in the stoppage).

[Author]

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