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Similar to yours but a little different, and Springfield is too much of a toss up for me.
St Louis roster:
Catcher- Molina, Wieters (bench)
Infielders- Goldschmidt, Wong Carpenter, Edman (bench), Miller (bench), Dejong, Ravelo (bench)
Outfielders- ONeill (LF starter), Bader, Fowler, Thomas (bench)
Starting pitchers- Flaherty, Hudson, Ponce, Waino, CMart
Relievers- Gallegos (closer), Gant, Brebbia, Webb, Kim, Fernandez, Helsley, Whitley
Injured Hicks, Cecil, Mokolas, Miller
Memphis rotation: Ponce, Gomber, Cabrera, Oviedo, Woodford
Memphis closer: Reyes
I was at work and made a point to watch the end of the game closely. Might be the last time we watch any baseball for a long time.
Kim’s ultimate role is as a reliever for this team barring injuries or very poor performance (which is what it would take to knock any of the 5 guys from their rotation spots)
Ponce seems just as good as Kim for being deserving of a spot…not to mention Gomber… if Kim is ultimately in the pen…why not start him there?
Why can’t he be awesome in the pen and not as a starter…why cant he be JUST as valuable if not MORE by taking the big stopper role we have lost in Miller going down
No one promised him a starting spot and from day one they said he was not being given a rotation spot, that he might be a swing guy that does everything…
Ponce has been effective as a starter and we havent seen him much as a reliever…i think if he was awesome at it we might have actually seen him pitch more late last year when he sat around did not play
I like Kim…i LOVE the idea of having a lefty in the rotation…but i don’t see why anyone woudl assume he DESERVES the spot in the rotation when you take into account the other top performances by other pitchers as well as the injuries
and if we are talking about DESERVING anything Carlson would be given a starting spot too or at least a spot over several other guys who are ahead of him and may be given long leashes of potential failure before Carlson EARNS or is DESERVING his opportunity
as for Whitley not being on the 40man…don’t we have a spot with Munoz gone? and with that POP in the hamstring of Cecil it sounds like we have 2 spots..
Whitley is being hyped and is playing too well not to be given a shot if we are in need of a reliever and not a converted starter…if it was September I might get it that we dont want to add him and instead turn to a starter at aAA to fill the bullpen role…
if it is really bad we can 60day DL him…which would open up another 40man spot…one for Whitley and one eventually for Carlson….
wait…do we already have 2 with Munoz gone? so this would be 3?
As of today i see the rotation and pen as:
Jack, Hud, CMart, Waino, Ponce
Gallegos, Brebbia, Helsley, Gant, Junior, Kim, Webb, Whitley
Jack, Hud, CMart, Waino, Mikolas
Gallegos, Brebbia, Helsley, Gant, Junior, Kim, Miller, Cecil
starter depth order due to injury or performance:
Ponce, Kim, Gomber, Genesis, Woodford
reliever depth etc.:
Webb, Whitley, Reyes, Ponce, Genesis
Sounds like Cecil just went down to a hamstring injury…tough luck as he was starting to look like he could really offer something positive
Goldy out with renewed elbow soreness
maybe Dean and Ravelo should be playing more 1b…orm ybae get Carp some run over thereMarch 10, 2020 at 5:01 pm in reply to: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2019-2020 #124448
I don’t think we would have been in play for multiple guys, it is just that we kept swinging and missing on getting any of the big ones.
Price has been hurt but also effective and you never know what might have been different in the NL
Heyward hasnt been terrible just not what they paid for. He hasnt ever really bottomed out like Dex has done. I think the pain with Dexter is that what he has offered has been so lacking that his price tag is too hard to take. Overpaying for a guy underperforming a bit is one thing, bottoming out is another. Dex was also supposed to solve CF which he didnt do. Heyward still can hit and can still play stellar defense in RF. Even if he never turned into what everyone thought he’d become he still is apretty valuable asset. Fowler is hard to justify in RF, let alone CF, his speed is gone and doesnt steal bases anymore, AND his on base % is gone, plus he is super streaky. He was brought in to do a lot and he has done almost none of it. Had he came in a and bottomed out on hitting like he did, but he was steallar in CF and stole bases and while he hit for no power he could still take a walk and get on base as a leadoff man, he woudlnt be lambasted because he woudl have done at least SOME of what he was paid to do. He doesnt really switch hit for much value any more.
He is basically a mediocre defender and runner, that runs into HRs. That is not what we signed him for.
It’s a lot of why people are so upset about Cecil, he is paid a lot of money (though not a terrible amount) it’s just that he is brought NOTHING of what he was supposed to have been brought in to do. IT feels like total sunk cost.
Last year’s 19HRs and 60+ RBI’s is not what Fowler was supposed to provide. Sure some power is nice and all, but a switch hitting, CFer with speed on the bases, field and for SBs, and elite on base potential at the top of the lineup was his role. A second table setter with Carp to get guys on nad cause problems.
Sure they have done it to plenty of others. But Carlson is the best hitter at Spring training (with all due respect to DeJong). Fowler possibly the worst.
They will give Fowler (and Carp and Cecil) a month to show they are more than Spring Training results, which will conveniently allow them to keep Carlson down and get another year of control.
Of course they publicly say he would come north if he forced his way up, but that just isnt true, not when his competition for a starting position is for one position because a guy who will get his spot because of his contract, and a guy in CF they love for his glove will be playing no matter what. Which makes Carlson’s competition Thomas and Oneill (as he is not fighting for a bench spot)…which is really just Oneill at this point, and unless Oneill fell flat on his face he was going to be getting that LF spot.
Carlson’s performance will be played as purely Spring Training and that he still has work to be done at AAA (which isnt a lie). “Eye opening” will be used plenty of times and “up soon enough” as well. And the mere mentioning that it could be because of manipulating his clock will be attacked because of all the other guys who are also doing “so well”. Carlson never had a chance at making the team, unless major injuries happened. He just has too much competition, and beating those people out for a spot was never going to happen because of the pride of the FO. IMO
-Fowler= can’t take his spot because of contract
-Bader= can’t take his spot because of his glove and commitment to “defense”
-starter LF Oneill/Thomas= Oneill and Thomas are battling for this spot, but because of the power it was always Oneill’s to lose which he hasnt
-bench Thomas= Carlson isnt making the team as a bench player, if he is up he is up to play which has been said ad nauseum…ie he will start if he is up
-bench Ravelo= same as above AND Ravelo is out of options
Maybe i will be wrong, but there are too many things in the way for Carlson to get the call no matter his play in ST….add in the added bonus of extra control and you have a practically impossible path to making the team. Which can not be said aloud of course because the CArdinals can’t take that PR hit, that a player performing well wont get a shot. But that IS what will happen. IMO. they have just created so many excuses to use to gain that extra service time, either deliberately or through blind luck.
As for Kim or Ponce….i totally get what you are saying. I don’t disagree on paper an thanks for reminding me about Gomber who has been a stud. I do disagree about Reyes in the AAA rotation. I even think Oviedo isn’t a lock to start there. I think Ponce has more value as a starter than reliever and i want him sharp, when he was the RP under glass last year we never saw him late. If Kim truly can be a non-under glass RP or POnce woudl be treated that way too…then sure but i think Kim already has agreed to that role publicly
AAA-Ponce, Woodford, Genesis, Gomber, Rondon/Oviedo
Thing is, that once Mikolas comes back, who will leave the rotation…Ponce or Kim obviously…if we put Kim there to start he wont need to acclimate himself to the role. If we put POnce in the spot, and then move him to AAA it keeeps Kim in the same role instead of changing either of them from starting to relieving. AS Kim has to accept minor league assignment and not POnce, POnce starting the rotation then going to AAA and keep performing whiel Kim carves out his role in the pen makes a lot of sense to me. Even if I might not do it if it was my decision
With the recent injuries this is probably the team folks, really only a couple bullpen spots up for grabs.
Wong, Carp, Goldy, Dejong, Oneill, Fowler, Yadi, Bader
Wieters, Thomas Edman, Ravelo, Miller (if healthy, if not Sosa)
-Dean has options so gone as Ravelo doesn’t, Williams is not close, and Carlson’s clock will be manipulated in the guise of giving Fowler time whether his spring deserves it. Knizner will play every day at AAA and that was a given once Wieters was back. No one else is really even in the discussion with Munoz gone. Schrock probably deserves a chance with how well he handles the stick (in fact i’d prefer him to Ravelo)
Jack, Hud, Cmart, Waino, Ponce (because we need Kim in the pen)
LOCKS: Gallegos, Brebbia, Gant, Helsley, Cecil, Kim (because Miller is hurt)
PICK TWO: Webb, Junior, Genesis, Whitley, Reyes
-I say pick TWO but really pick ONE as Junior has got all the headlines as even a closer candidate, which is just preparing us for him making the team. Whitley has gotten a lot of those kind of remarks too, so we may see that, however Webb has pitched well so really I think it just comes down to a righty or a lefty Whitley or Webb. Cecil will be given the Carp and Fowler treatment. As good as Gant has been starting he is in the pen and Genesis will be starting at AAA, and Reyes needs to work on his control and they will put him in the closer role at AAA is my prediction. POnce and Kim are fighting for the 5 spot, which could swap to Kim in and POnce in the pen OR even Ponce at AAA so he can get reps and Webb and Whitley making the team. Also, let’s not act like there is a question over the closer role, it’s Gallegos’ until he fails.
So basically all left to figure out is:
-Ponce or Kim for #5
-Webb or Whitley for last man in the pen
IMO- I’d go with Kim at #5 and Webb and Whitley in the pen, Ponce to AAA
However, I think the club will go with Ponce at #5, Kim in the pen (explained by their early talking points of him being a swing pitcher when they signed him), and then go with Webb so they don’t lose him as he is out of options. Also, because of their concern for Cecil having 3 lefties isn’t so bad.
Injuries could change all of this, maybe even a surprise release of Cecil could also change it. Miller being healthy is really the only thing to determine for the bench.
Fowler, Carp, Cecil all get free passes because of their contracts, despite all these recent articles about “earning their spots” and “not being handed anything”. They are being handed their spots, and maybe they have earned that. But let’s not act like they aren’t.March 9, 2020 at 4:23 pm in reply to: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2019-2020 #124368
I think i’d rather be saddled with Heyward than Fowler. HEyward at least has his moments on offense still, and plays great in the field still. He also is still younger.
no way we have FOwler if Heyward signs
This is not good news no matter how you spin it. Not hurting is good and all but not everything hurts when it is broken or wrong.
I don’t like nerve problems
I assumed Miller’s option would vest, but if he has a serious problem we need to seriously consider that this is his last year.
Not great for the lefties health wise
At least Cecil decided to look pretty good from the left side. Also Zack Thompson looked good again.
Nice to see Roel step up so quick, a nice sign he can get ready quick. Oviedo also looked nice again.
Fowler looks healthy…he just isnt hitting…he undoubtedly will be the starter day one, but im not sure he will be given a month if Carlson keeps raking, not to mention Ravelo and Thomas…
any word on why Kim was bumped for Genesis?
The optimist in me says Genesis has been dazzling, but the pessimist in me fear Kim has an injuryFebruary 27, 2020 at 2:01 pm in reply to: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2019-2020 #123680
This came up in the Carp thread but….Yankees need pitching with Severino going down
I saw maybe Andujar…but how about Clint Frazier?
He isnt terrible in the OF, has decent speed, good pop, only 25, and no real future in the Yankees outfield, would add to our OF glut but has a bit more experience and success in the bigs (in limited time)
Ponce de Leon looks like a limited upside, cheap, but dependable option for a team needing a 5. Gomber, Genesis, Woodford, Rondon all can take on that same role…even Kim if CMart takes the rotation spot and Mikolas is healthy when he comes back
Ponce wouldnt be enough…add in Seijas, young still upside arm, and a closer OFer lefty…just hasnt fit in with us yet in Williams
Ponce, Seijas, Williams
starting point idea…but the trade simulator has this deal with Yankees getting more back in value
never good to see a guy not play because of a injury “super precautionary” or not
How about trying to snag Clint Frazier for something? He seems just as blocked but looks like a more complete player than Andujar, which is more of what id want if i am giving up something
Ponce + Seijas + Williams
ill put this in the trade post too….
It’s still me, I am still as ever rooting for every guy out there to be great and will all year.
However, I am not convinced that the pitching can duplicate what it did last year, nor would for any team really…the rotation is already hurting with Mikolas out, Waino is older, Hudson is a sophomore, Jack is getting all the love and rightfully so, Kim is an unknown with hope. CMart hasnt really been an SP for a while and if he does start then we just have a big hole in the bullpen. Which also is hard to imagine being better with how much we depended on guys last year.
2019 to 2020
Jack > Jack… tough for anyone to duplicate
Waino > Waino …he is older every year hard to think he will be better or even the same
Hudson > Hudson …last year was pretty good, will he really get better?
Mikolas = Mikolas…with the injury i am having a hard time he will be better
Wacha < Kim… Kim should be serviceable probably better overall because of his handedness
Wacha < CMart…if CMart gets the nod Cmart even in a partial year should eclipse Wacha
Wacha = Ponce/kids… Ups and downs of kids makes this volatile to me and that is what Wacha was
to me that reads as 2019’s rotation is not so likely to outperform what it did last year, and with the outlandish success of a few players i am hard pressed to think it will even be the same…kids should be allowed to fail, and veterans like Waino allowed to get old… Mikolas was our only hope for a calming vet presence and his injury concerns are not quite apparent
I wont even do this with the pen, but beyond a turnaround for Miller and possibly some advancement by Helsley…where are we really looking for “better” performance out of the pen…even equallying the year last year by Gant, Gallegos, Brebbia is hard to imagine…i like Whitley, but Genesis is looking more like a starter to me…
as for the defense being the same….last year the defense went from worst to first…and we are expecting it to stay the same? That luck and a little playing over their heads didnt happen to get them that much better in such a short time. I do like the upgrade in LF for an arm, but i am not sold on Carp retaining his high marks at 3b and every year adds another year to Fowlers legs in RF…Can we really expect Wong and DeJong to be THAT good every single year….and if not then how can we assume we will be just as good on defense?
yesterday i was encouraged by a few hitters, then we have another back injury for Carp…though nice to see Goldy in the field…Williams gain was not impressive in the field…weird because he looks like he has all the athleticism to make every play…. I have been unimpressed with Dean too…definitely doesnt look like he was worth losing even a fringe prospect to get…I dont see how he in any way is better than Ravelo…
I love seeing the kids get hits…but id feel a lot better seeing Goldy, Fowler, Carp, Wong, DeJong, Yadi all getting hits…and the kids having fun in the 5-9th
Im still feeling really worried about the offense, and while i am encouraged by parts of the pitching, are they really the parts we should be interested in?February 27, 2020 at 9:45 am in reply to: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2019-2020 #123655
I think the ROX actually could use a future catcher, I like Wolters but he seems more backup than a starter.
And that is only if the pitching and defense hold up.
Im not normally a fan of hitting guys on purpose, but as someone said…below the shoulders…and to be fair…hit them in the back even…
AS i said i dont want guys getting hurt, but i am willing to asterisk that if we have known admitted cheaters going unpunished by MLB. If they are not being punished then it needs to be found somewhere else. A few bruises are a small price to pay, and at least it means some kind of order is being instituted.
Hitting a batter is not an ejection unless it is done on purpose. To prove that means admission, which rarely ever comes. It can always be said a pitch came out wrong or slipped. And that white lie, is far from the unethical cheating that the Astros did.
If you want to protect the Astros. punish them severely. The other players even more than the fans will let you know if it is sufficient enough by how they deal with them on the field.
Love seeing Julio get the start at 1b and HErrera at Dh
yuck yuck from some pitchers yesterday who are guys if we want to feel like having a great pen is a big strength….
Cecil…control is his problem..i guess that happens when you basically dont pitch enough for 3yrs….break on the balls is still great but he cant set anyone up to use it because he cant locate anything else… still…he didnt entirely implode
Reyes…control too…i guess it is early, and still being rusty is a real thing…but i didnt see anything yesterday that made me think he can even be a thought for the rotation. without being able to get through batters on less pitches i dont see it… still early…still great talent…
as for hitting…yuck again…what 5 hits> before the couple in the 9th? And how many were Ravelo? The DeJong HR again was basically the whole offense combined with a Munoz solo HR
None of that screams we have made any improvements to the offense or offensive strategy. just running into hanging pitches for HRs is not a good strategy. Have we even put together 3 hits in an inning once?
Wong’s triple AB was nice to see, Ravelo is having a nice run but is not a difference maker.
I have been unimpressed with Williams and Thomas a well. Not just with the bat, but Williams hasnt run well, and basically got picked off twice, also i have no idea he didnt throw home on multiple plays in yesterday’s game (even Edmonds remarked on it)
Also why did ONeill not play yesterday? 2 days off in a row? I thought this was a competition. Feels a lot more like ONeill is being handed LF, Bader in Cf, and Fowler in RF….everything else is just window dressing to try to hype up other players to distract from the lack of fixing the offense.
It’s early, but it looks pretty clear we are going with: (outside a meteoric rise)
Oneill, Bader, Fowler
Carp, DeJong, Wong, Goldy, Yadi
Edman, Wieters, Miller, Thomas
Sosa or Munoz…i pick Sosa as it can be played like he is a rising star
Ravelo could find a place in there over Thomas if Edman can prove he can play CF
They are going to run Bader, Carp, Fowler, ONeill for at least a month into the season regardless of production
If it works I will be happy…if it doesn’t it probably means we are pretty far out already…then it will be “call up the kids”…Carlson, Thomas, then one of whomever was playing ok from the above 4….then Edman is a starter at 3b…and sit back and pray for success
So far….i have been very unimpressed with the guys who are supposed to be fixing things…and the hitting, it is early…i know…but it is not looking good…not even a lot of well struck balls…Carp had one decent hit..the other way but then nothing…outside of a bloop wind aided hit…
on the good side… Carlson looks legit, Cecil has great break but we will see if he can control it, Edman looks the same which is nice, BMiller seems a find find even if redundant, Kim looks fine, Ravelo looks like a more laid back JMart…Whitley looked impressive yesterday…
Still a long ways to go… but the MAIN concern for this team was the offense and all we have seen is a couple solo HRs and a bunch of nothing….
The bite on Cecils breaking pitch was nasty.
If he can keep that up and be accurate enough to be able to throw that pitch he could be a big weapon
it seems that lately…when we hear anything about injuries it tends to be the tip of the iceberg…as if it got to the point they cant hide it from being reported so they have to say somethingFebruary 21, 2020 at 9:37 am in reply to: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2019-2020 #123163
It might take that kind of money being eaten to get the FO to actually do a deal to help the offense.
I don’t see the preciousness people have with Libertore, it’s not like we drafted him and have watched him come up. On paper he looks good, but so does Thompson and he is closer
We got Libertore for JMart and Randy…good deal it seems…but Libertore even if he was ready right now woudlnt help the offense
It might be a lot of starting talent, but so what? we cant play any of them except maybe ONeill..so no matter their value they are less valuable if we dont have spots for them…Libertore would be the big piece…but Knizner has Herrera on his heels and Yadi still in his way….Woodford has a ton around him and so does Montero
ONeill even in the starting lineup pales in what Arenado provides
With Arenado in the lineup we are LESS dependent on having to replace Bader in CF because of his bat which is what i would prefer to do and i think the organization wants to do
Arenado displaces Carp, but that bolsters the bench and potentially the OF mix if he would get time out there in LF
It makes our infield potentially the best IF defense in the league
Yadi, Goldy, Wong, DeJong, Arenado
and our OF defense less than great but with Bader in CF who can make up for lack of range in the corners, as well as having solid bench and AAA guys to make it pretty great if Carp and Fowler falter
I’d love to not trade Libertore, but i don’t see Colorado jumping for woodford and ONeill…they’d rather wait until teams gets desperate…. even if my trade scenario was a bit desperate in the value going out it is done so with knowledge of the replaceability of it from within…as well as with the knowledge that money coming back as well as trying to get the opt out waived as being key
Cards wouldnt even offer the Woodford ONeill deal because they would complain they cant afford Arenado…money has to be a part of this deal…and i dont see them wanting Carp or Fowler, and the only other way woudl be for them to eat some of the money…that costs talent…and for that kind of money GOOD talent….and at least we have that kind of talent in positions that are more redundant or blocked
Id love to keep Libertore…but i dont see any other prospects we want to trade being as valuable to entice the the ROX to take on money…which seems the main reason the Cards wont jump