October 21, 2021 at 5:46 pm #175421bicyclemikeModeratorPaid - Annual
Some blasts from the past. Remember DuckyMedwick7?October 21, 2021 at 6:05 pm #175423Nbloom1717ParticipantFree
As a hardcore CARDINALS fan I have to make a few statements that I know I have to live with the rest of my life and undoubtedly led to our Manager being dismissed.
1) How do you let all your players REST AND NOT HAVE AMPLE AT BATS BEFORE FACING MAX IN DODGER STADIUM?????
If the machine is not broken why fix it. Fate is an unusual thing. As it turned out we caught Max on an off day and we were tied 1-1 in the ninth. Do you really think that would have been the case if our main players were still tuned up and ready to go. NO WAY!!!! We would have won that game barring any Unseen calamities. (Like the last two exact blown saves on the last two Sundays)
2)Why would you put Reyes in that position after he was dismissed from that roll because of exactly what he did. AGAIN!!!!!
3) And lastly, you have to field a team when you are going for an 18th consecutive win. Every member of the team will NEVER BE IN THAT SITUATION AGAIN or Cardinal fans for that matter that’s why it never happened before in 130 years!!!!!!
The only time in the last 30 years that we won the World Series, we were the wild card and with how well we were playing I think it was an incredible mishandling of the players readiness that led to our 2021 demise. They are professional baseball players but you can’t allow no or very few at bats to most of the veterans and expect to beat the Dodgers in Dodger stadium with Max on the mound and a fifteen game home winning streak on their side. That approach Never works in any professional sport and IT DID NOT WORK FOR US.
Thanks Mike for underachieving baseball decisions and sports 101. Unacceptable, Neil.October 22, 2021 at 6:19 am #175430Pork TwainParticipantPaid - Annual
I’ve been a lurker on here long enough to remember the great Nate and Charlie pessimistic posting. My baseball knowledge pales in comparison to many of you, so I usually stick to lurking. I was not here long enough to remember Ducky.October 22, 2021 at 7:44 am #175434PugsleyAddamsParticipantPaid - Annual
Glad you and Mr. Bloom have finally emerged, Pork! Ducky was a dandy. Euro very much reminds me of Ducky…..two peas in a pod those two. The “great Nate” and his documented 182 IQ is still alive and kicking in these waters under the handle “MSPaid”. U FAN was another character from that era, who was banned for life, then revived under a new handle…..then once again sent packing to the glue factory…
never to be seen again. Not to give the powers that be any ideas, but we haven’t seen a poster banned around here in a long long time. One could almost say that we are too well behaved.October 22, 2021 at 8:19 am #175437SoonerinNCParticipantPaid - Annual
Having read Mike’s description of analytics I now suspect that Shildt had little choice going into the meeting. Management had already decided that Shildt had to buy into Albert’s approach or else. The explanation to the somewhat chaotic handling of the firing could be that they expected mild mannered Mike to accept.
Shild had converted the Cardinals to a strong defense and base running team. Many of the players would not fare well in a hit em high and pull approach.
In 2021 Alberts hitting philosophy resulted 76 games where the Cardinals scored 3 runs or less. 54 games with 2 runs or less. Winning 90 games with that kind of offense, most of your starting pitchers out a good portion of the season and an inexperienced bullpen seems to be a pretty good effort.
If Albert’s approach is the way to go in baseball Mr. Shildt may have a hard time landing another gig.October 22, 2021 at 7:24 pm #175490October 22, 2021 at 9:26 pm #175495
I read an article by Bernie where he was defending Albert again. He made some good points far as the teams hitting goes. He also basically said it was schildt not wanting to put Sosa in the lineup even though it was being suggested by the higher ups. I didn’t know that or maybe he’s wrong. I do know far as Albert goes, in another article that was defending Albert pointed to the fact that guys like carpenter and Dejong we’re keeping the numbers lower. I find that funny when you consider those guys have been rooted in Alberts approach. So maybe it’s not the guys, it’s the approach.October 23, 2021 at 6:45 pm #175530CariocaCardinalParticipantPaid - Monthly
I am sure Dicky Thon was up in 2000 and probably a few years earlier. In 2000 I went tô a Potomac game with Gagliano and saw Albert Pujols.March 31, 2022 at 12:37 pm #181579BlackHillsCardParticipantFree
This article really brings home what I said at the time. Shildt was fired because he wasnt a yes man. Mo didn’t like that.March 31, 2022 at 1:34 pm #181580CariocaCardinalParticipantPaid - Monthly
Found it interesting that it didnt happen after some specific discussion. As long as Schildt was keeping anu disagreement in house not sure it was an issueMarch 31, 2022 at 1:48 pm #181581
We may never officially learn the specific nature of the differences and hear the other side of the story – and there are always two.
It is a shame that Shildt was fired but it clearly was not a casual decision. You can bet he knows why.March 31, 2022 at 3:09 pm #181588
If you’ll recall, around late July, Reyes had a complete meltdown and couldn’t get a bat boy out, much less a major leaguer, yet Shildt kept trotting him out there for blown saves and blown tie games. My guess is that Mo ordered him to stop using Reyes in late game situations, and of course this had a spectacular consequence, the hottest MLB Team down the stretch.
Then, with the season on the line, in the wildcard winner take all game, Shildt trots Reyes out there AGAIN in a late inning tie game. He was a good as gone right then and there, IMHOMarch 31, 2022 at 4:21 pm #181594
I believe it comes down to the front office not wanting a real leader. They want basically a yes man like was already said.Did shildt make questionable move sometimes, sure, but all managers do that. I don’t think he saw eye to eye with Albert. Now I personally think it should have been Albert that should have went. I want a hitting coach that can teach something besides pulling the baseball. The best hitters have almost always been the guys who can hit to all fields.March 31, 2022 at 6:58 pm #181598blingboyParticipantPaid - Annual
Then, with the season on the line, in the wildcard winner take all game, Shildt trots Reyes out there AGAIN in a late inning tie game. He was a good as gone right then and there, IMHO
I think the decision had been made before then, probably quite a while earlier. The win streak just made it awkward.March 31, 2022 at 7:33 pm #181604
This puts a lot of pressure on Marmol. I wasn’t a big Shildt fan, but at the end of the regular season they usually had a decent won-loss record. Shildt teams were streaky, which is hard on fans during the draw downs. But the bottom line is he won a lot more than he lost.
For the life of me I can’t understand why he kept sticking with Reyes in the closer role after Reyes had lost the ability to close games out. Probably paid a big role in his firing.March 31, 2022 at 11:00 pm #181612BlackHillsCardParticipantFree
Interesting that no one had commented on TLR’s comments saying if there was a toxic environment it came from the front office.April 1, 2022 at 4:11 am #181614Card4EverParticipantFree
I read that and all I can think of is Joe Pesci in Goodfellas. Thinks he’s about to become a made man and instead, boom.April 1, 2022 at 7:07 am #181617
The only toxic environment last season was during late July, went Shildt went out of his way to destroy the winning efforts of his players by sticking with Reyes. In hindsight, they should have fired him then, rather than wait until October.April 1, 2022 at 7:39 am #181618
Well Tony is probably right. I wasn’t always the biggest fan of Larussa but he tended to be candid. But I’m not the biggest fan of this ownership.April 1, 2022 at 8:01 am #181621gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
None of us really know the exact reason Shildt was fired. I never really got the impression it had anything to do with Reyes. Friction with Jeff Albert, Mike Maddux, and/or the analytics department seems more likely to me but who knows?
As Brian stated, whatever the reason was you can be sure that Shildt is aware of it. You don’t make a decision like that with a manager with his w-l record unless there was a significant difference of opinion.April 1, 2022 at 10:33 am #181628thejagerParticipantPaid - Annual
“I think the decision had been made before then, probably quite a while earlier. The win streak just made it awkward.”
i think this is dead on
I think the rift happened during the bad offensive stretch, he probably challenged ALbert’s methods, then things straightened out a little, but the pitching was going down…then he spoke up and said he needed real help at the deadline and got nothing…complained…got some throwaways that were obviously brought in to just eat innings and not hurt the prospects growth and confidence
Then they started the winning, and now none of the FO could push back much, they had made their decision to let him die on the field with a bad team…and then crap he got them into the playoffs without any of their help….then they lose… and cut ties immediately…say some “differences” or whatever…install the “Yes man” that Marmol is who agrees with all their planning and won’t tell them they are wrong
Sucks for Shildt..didn’t deserve that…neither did MAtheny really either…but people will just bash on me for that…
and I didn;t like Shildt as a manager..i think he was a poor choice at the time and i really didnt like how he managed and really didn’t liek his “behind the scenes magic” in the clubhouse and how IN MY OPINION was two faced in his clean reputation on the front and then his “good ole boys” behind the scenes when the camera were off of him… I absolutely DO believe that video Arozarena posted got him traded and put out of favor….i hated how he didn’t use Randy and Adolis Garcia for that matter
I didn’t like Shildt as a manager…maybe i will like Marmol…we will wait and see…but how he got the job is just as poor a decision as Shildt getting it AND Matheny for that matter (even though i liked how Matheny managed)…
I will not say he didn’t succeed but it doesn’t mean i liked it… AND it doesn’t mean he deserved how he was treated on the way out…April 1, 2022 at 11:29 am #181630gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
Well Mo publicly stated that when he got on the plane in LA to fly back to STL he had no idea there would be a managerial change, which would imply the decision to fire him was not made weeks or months in advance.
I had mixed emotions on Shildt. I thought he was a pretty good in game manager. Much much better than Matheny. What I didn’t like about him was his over the top pollyanna takes on how things were going. To him everything was going great even though we could obviously see that wasn’t the case.
That is the irony. The rumors are that he was fired for not being enough of a company man but he came across as the ultimate company man.April 1, 2022 at 11:46 am #181634
What we see and what is really happening can be very different, so it is hard to make clear assessments. Those who comment publicly can try to take the high ground. I am not suggesting I know anything, but I do keep in mind that people can say things to defend themselves and gloss over the rough edges.April 1, 2022 at 12:12 pm #181637thejagerParticipantPaid - Annual
I dont trust public statements that are convenient to deflecting blame or responsibility or even possible confirmation of unwelcomed rumorsApril 1, 2022 at 1:42 pm #181648
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.