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You mean stupid moves like Clement, Moss, Masterson, Leake, Fowler, Cecil, Ozuna, Gregorson, Holland, etc. Goldschmidt and Miller could work out…we’ll see.
bccran:
I tried to respond on the thread where you asked me a question but some fo the threads say I must be logged when I already am. This one lets me post.
Ozuna: He had a crap year and when Mo called him out that ended any desire for Ozuna to play here. Plus they won’t pursue him.
Goldschmidt: They will make a four year offer but they won’t break the bank. Several teams will pay more and there will be a few who will offer six years. The Front Office will want him extended but they’ll get outbid. Yes, the last two year could be a slide to mediocrity. Many teams are not afraid to take the risk hoping that in the first four years it will pay off. Junior will not do that. He is petrified of a bad contract and a long one. Can’t say I blame him but if the Cardinals hope to compete with the Red Sox, Astros, Dodgers, Yankees, Indians and other very good teams then they’ll have to get over being timid. Major League ownership is brutally competitive and if you hope to succeed you can’t play to not lose. You can’t do it on the field or in the front office. You have to play to win and no Goldschmidt is not enough by himself. There’s still time and maybe they will be aggressive and add major talent. Fingers crossed.
Brian:
Indeed we see things differently at times. I see the 88 wins as a fluke because of the miracle of August. I don’t see another miracle this year so they could revert to 83 wins. If a bad player is in a spot that should be used to upgrade the offense then that is the definition of crippling to me. Crippling does not have to mean ten years. Fowler is crippling this team for the next three years. Yes, I know they are looking for a lefthander. But they were looking for a lefthander when they signed Cecil and we see how that turned out. My confidence in the front office is zero. Junior will not eat Cecil’s contract so he’s in the pen. If they sign a good lefthander, and I’ll believe it when it happens, that is only one pitcher added to a pen that was horrible. They need two to three quality relief pitchers from the outside and a second bat for right field but that is blocked because the front office handed Fowler the right field job before the season starts. Fowler is also sunk costs…a big one. They deserve credit for Goldschmidt but he is one year rental and if they fail to win the WS in 2019 then it is a bust and they start over again. Maybe EVERYTHING will work out at every level and the Cardinals will in fact with the WS. More than likely, however, the fans will suffer the same angst next off-season that they experience every year.
The Fowler contract is crippling. He has to play right field so they are precluded from signing any number of good outfielders in free agency that could actually help the team. Instead they must play Fowler who will hurt the team. Cecil is taking up a bullpen slot that could be manned by a pitcher who is actually good. No, they have made crippling moves and will make more I’m sure.
Dennis:
Cecil and Gregorson are signed and making good money. They will be in the pen. They just signed Shreve so he will be there too. But, you are right…they are going nowhere.
Cardfan7791:
You do realize the following things I hope
1. Fowler will be the right fielder in 2019.
2.There will be no audition for right field.
3.O’Neill will be the fourth outfielder.
4. If O’Neill hits .750 in the spring and Fowler hits .083, Fowler will still be the right fielder all year.
5. They never made any attempt to trade Fowler.
6. From the very moment the season ended Fowler was the right fielder for 2019.
7. Fowler will be the right fielder in 2010 and 2021.
8. As long as Junior is in charge no 16 million dollar player will sit on the bench.
The talk of “fixing” the bullpen is a waste of time. If they have eight relievers then there’s not much room for any acquisitions.
Theses guys will be in the pen in 2019
Cecil
Gregorson
Shreve
Hicks
Brebbia
Hudson
Gomber (unless he starts then Gant)That leaves room for one pitcher from the outside. So, if they get a pitcher he better be a Hall of Famer because most of the bullpen that was horrible last year will still be there.
But to Junior it’s all about the money. Fowler’s cost impacts all activities regarding acquisitions. Now, of course they never even talked about Harper. They were stuck with Fowler in right field so they got Goldschmidt cheap for one year to sell tickets. Burt even if Fowler had not been acquired, Harper was NEVER a consideration.
Jager:
Fowler is the right fielder, they have made that very clear. The lineup is set…all they have to do is find a relief pitcher and they are done.
Every off-season they say they have resources and they say the same thing at the deadline. You’re right they need to start spending some of it but they never do and this year is no exception.
Junior will out bid the big offers Goldschmidt will get next year from multiple teams.
He is a one-year rental so they better win the WS in 2019 or they’ll have to start over again next off-season with Ozuna gone too.Brian:
Wisdom is no loss, correct but would it not seem reasonable to acquire a bat off the bench who could actually hit?
Mo has outdone himself. Drew Robinson…why? In 216 major league plate appearances he is batting .204 and he has 99 strikeouts in 216 at bats for a 46% rate. Why do we continue to pick up crap and expect them to perform successfully. This is the one year that the Cardinals need to be aggressive in the off-season and get some good players before Goldschmidt leaves next year and they trade for this guy. I have to laugh to keep from being depressed.
Brian:
Logan is right. The Cardinals make one”big” move and stop. After 15 it was Leake, after 16 it was Fowler and after 17 it was Ozuna. They stopped after those moves. Mikolas was the lone exception. I don’t know when the “All iI” thing got started but they never said that and they would NEVER do that. They were supposed to be “players.” Maybe they will be but if Fowler is the right fielder then there ism’t much to be done. All the positions are set. They’ll add relief pitchers and then go to Florida. They needed to release Fowler or trade him and sign McCutcheon or someone else of significant ability. Fowler is just another dead spot in the line up to join Bader and Wong. My opinion of things based on previous years and I don’t see it changing appreciably. Goldschmidt will not get the Cardinals to the WS or even in the playoffs unless other “real” moves are made but as you said they are not done yet. I just hope it’s not another slug parade.
The Cardinals need to get the very best reliever they can acquire. If the bullpen is not elite then the Goldschmidt trade is a bust. We’ll see if they really are “players” like they said they were going into the off-season.
Goldschmidt should have a good year and he is a steal at 14 million but what if they don’t win the WS and he leaves after one year? They have left themselves with a one-year window. If they are really players like Mo says they are they they will not stop at Goldschmidt. They will go out and acquire another top quality bat and for longer than one year. If Fowler is the starting right fielder on opening day in 2019 then it will be another mediocre year.
No one is denying that Goldschmidt is a very good player. He should help immensely but only for one year. Once he turned down an extension the Cardinals should have walked away. He was acquired to do one thing…sell season tickets.
I’d give it a B. I was never a Weaver or Kelly fan and Goldschmidt is very good, especially at 14 million. But he refused an extension so he’s gone after 2019 and we’ll be looking for TWO middle of the order bats for 2020. Unless the Cardinals win the WS it is another bust acquisition. If they sign Harper too then I’ll be back to salute the front office.
The Cardinals in the off-season are a great source of humor for me. They really don’t know what they are doing and the moves they do make are a joke. Heyward, Leake, Fowler, Cecil, Gregorson, Ozuna are an indictment of this organization. If they were trying to suck they couldn’t do a better job. Whoever is in charge in the Front Office is lousy at what they do. I think we’ll have to get used to third place for many years.
Mo may be great at saving Junior money, he does deserve credit for that. But the players he acquires (Mikolas the lone exception and Norris for half a season) suck. Fowler, Leake, Cecil, Moss, Masterson, Ozuna, Gregorson, Holland, etc. If they rank Mo as no. 7 then the ones behind him must be God-awful.
Stl card 25:
I did write a post yesterday but I guess it didn’t take for some reason so here goes again.
Sign Harper. Not realistic for this FO so I would accept McCutcheon. Sign Kimbrel, and Andrew Miller. Then sign Donaldson or an elite shortstop who can hit not named Manny. Trade for Goldschmidt and move Carpenter to second. I can’t stand Wong. That’s money and prospects but Mo just said they have the resources and they’re going to be players. Sounds good…let’s see it Mo, no more talk, let’s see action.
