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CC, I am plenty opinionated, as we all are. I just don’t always comment, but when I do, I explain why I look at the matter the way I do. As I’ve said before, I get some of my best column ideas from the talk here. If others explain what is behind their thinking as well, it makes for better discussion. On the other hand, one-line posts that “so-and-so sucks” add no value, but people are still free to express their views, just as others can take exception. Disagreement is expected, but the intent here is to keep it civil. I hate having to discipline anyone, but on very rare occasions, there is no choice. There are plenty of other places on the net where anything goes, but this is not ever going to be one of them.
I bet when C2016 returns next year, he’ll be a new man. Back in 2006, I got ejected (suspended) three times in two months….and it completely turned my life around…..for the better.
harper is a really good player that with the right organization could be a great player. he could fit right in and make the cardinals a legitimate threat to go the world series. my only issue is his lack of hustle sometimes but about 80 percent of the players in the league have that issue and some are far worse. I think he would change a little bit in st. louis. but he will usually hit around thirty homeruns or more, 100 to 125 rbi if guys are getting on, and the biggest part of all is willing to take a walk. a rarity in todays game. put him right ahead of goldshmidt and watch the cards take off. he defense is average but he isn’t bad. to me goldshmidt is not enough to take this team to the top. maybe they get a wild card spot but I doubt it and they wouldn’t get far in the playoffs in my opinion if they did make it. the cardinals have the money to make it happen, but I don’t really think the management is really serious about winning. the talk a good fight but never show. goldshmidt is probably a one year rentaltrhough worth it for what they gave, and miller is past his prime, and they are still stuck with fowler who was never worthy of being a cardinal.
Pugs (or were you HHM2 then?), I do not remember all of those suspensions, but I do recall one particularly detailed late-night post in which you effectively took down not only me, but every prominent poster on the site, in one fell swoop. In its totally inappropriate manner, it was quite creative. I started to censor the objectionable parts, but found that all that was left was “hello” and “goodbye”!
1982 willie, there are many who feel the same way as you. They want the Cards to go all out (and sign Harper).
Personally, I would love for them to sign Harper, too, but not at what it would probably take to outspend the Dodgers or Yankees. I just don’t see how he is truly a generational player worthy of a record contract. Others disagree.
Currently, with more work to be done, the Cards are projected to tie the Cubs at 87 wins. It doesn’t seem a bad place to be on December 22.
https://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=Standings
Frankly I think the trade yesterday was very one sided in favor of the Dodgers. They cleared out a couple of OF spots that was cluttering the roster and the two OF’s they moved don’t exactly have a sterling clubhouse reputation. And the Dodgers cleared some payroll space while adding some nice prospect pickups.
Curious trade for the Reds. Rebuilding teams don’t usually trade for players with one year of control. Very strange. My guess is that their management knows that their attendance has sucked the last several years so they are desperate to sell tickets.
gscottar, you could be right on about at least one element of the Reds’ motivation. Because they have been bad for so long, even one better year would be an improvement and probably many fewer fans care about 2020 right now.
For me, this is a good illustration of the different places teams and their fan bases are. For example, the main knock on Goldy seemed to be that he will be a free agent again next fall. The difference is that Cards fans expect the team to be competitive every year.
Surprised to see the Cubs still so prominent. White Sox aren’t given much confidence, considering they were mentioned as front-runners not long ago. Chances of returning to the Nats appear dim, according to the oddsmakers.
Updated odds to sign Bryce Harper (@betonline_ag):
Dodgers +200
Phillies +300
Yankees +400
Cubs +450
White Sox +500
Cardinals +900
Nationals +1200— Odds Shark (@OddsShark) December 22, 2018
Well I missed all of the excitement. I do, however, have to agree with some of the what C2016 was saying.
As far as Harper goes I’m at the point that I don’t care anymore one way or the other. The Cards front office have been clear Fowler will be the starting right fielder and as much as I disagree with that move it is what is. The Fowler propaganda has been in full force since the FSMW tweet and then Goold’s “depression” article the following day.
I honestly think the Cardinals would be a lot better by cutting Cecil who have been a disaster. I don’t see how you can say you’re serious about competing in 2019 and still have him on the 25-man roster. I understand he’s still owed a large amount of money but at the end of the day you need to admit you screwed up signing him.
Let’s see if Cecil earns his way onto the team at the end of spring training. Folks are incorrectly assuming he will be kept no matter what. We just don’t know that one way or the other. As I’ve asked before about him and other players seemingly on the bubble, what is the benefit of releasing them now vs. seeing how they look in the spring? The money is owed either way and they aren’t losing the team any games here in December.
P.S. Right now they have four lefties for what appears to be two spots – Miller, Shreve, Cecil and Gomber – and they could add another in the interim for all we know. They could also throw Cabrera in the mix. That would make five or perhaps even six. None of the three of Miller, Shreve and Cecil can be sent to the minors, so it appears that something will have to give.
No reason to decide now. (And yes, this is the same logic against releasing Gregerson or anyone else.)
I can also ask what’s the benefit of keeping him? Insurance policy if another lefty goes down? If you go into the 2019 season with him in the bullpen you’re setting yourself up for failure.
BHC, though you will not answer my question, I will still answer yours. What if:
Miller and/or Shreve are injured in spring camp?
And Cecil pitches really well this spring?(It is not as if Cecil did not pitch well at one time. He does not have any known physical ailments.)
The core difference in the views is that you have given up on him. The Cardinals have not – at least yet – but they look to be adding other pieces so they could sever ties with him later if needed.
Gscottar, i give Cincy the nod for winning the trade, even if it is short term. Their roster improved.
I can’t endorse LA spending 28mil on two decent prospects as a win, just to open up roster spots so they can throw more money at it going forward.
I understand LA’s deep pocket motives, but this trade on its own, well I’m embaressed for Friedman. He’s been much better than this.
Why are the Cards only projected to win 87 in 2019? They won 88 last year without Goldy and Miller, and a disastrous bullpen the first half of the season.
Projections are notoriously pessimistic. It’s pretty unusual to see them project any team to win more than 95 games and even 90 is typically reserved for very good teams. As we know, a handful win 95+ every year and there are 6-8 teams that break the 90 win barrier just about every season.
well this is to brian Walton. ive always felt that the cardinals have far more money than they let on. they constantly have attendance figures over 3 million every year which is a dream for most teams not in LA, NY, or Chicago. they also have a healthy tv contract. they are very well supported by their community and surrounding area, far better than most. while im not saying go crazy ala how the yankees, dodgers, or angels did, im saying they can afford to spend big money on a player that I feel could be a great all time player with them. I think hes a great fit for the team and the city. im not sure he is with some of these other teams. in my opinion, fit can make the difference between a player being a good solid player to a player being a great player. have I felt they would make a real move for him ,no. I could only hope. they went after Stanton last year but I think knew he wasn’t gonna come. plus I never felt that was a good move. Stanton would not fit, we don’t need another high strikeout, no walk guy. most of the big moves the cardinals have made recently, haven’t worked out. only two that I can say worked out well. the guy last year that played in japan, for whatever cant think of his name, but he was great. it was still one of those fifty fifty moves that just happened to work out. the other was ozuna. he didn’t have the power I wanted but im going to give him a pass cause of his shoulder for last year and he actually was geeting hits when nobody else was early on. the fowler and cecil moves I didn’t like then and I hate now. miller is another fifty fifty shot. hes getting older and coming off a down year. they are also paying him too much along with a no trade clause. it only looks great if he turns back the clock, im not counting on it though im hoping just like management does when they make their deals cause they always never go after almost sure thing players. goldshmidt is a solid player and a great deal for onrer year but the cardinals didn’t have to give much to get him so they didn’t really pull off anything. those might be enough and great if you are talking about the pirates, twins, or the mets. not the cardinals with their fan support. plus getting goldshmidt creates problems. what about carpenter. move him to third I guess cause I don’t see goldshmidt going there. we will have a below to average third baeman with a very below average arm. carpenter is a decent first baseman so the pickup at first isn’t going to offset the bad play at third. we were already the worst fielding team in the league far as errors go so that isn’t gonna improve. while analytics may not grade errors harshly, most people thatr really know the game, do. there is a lot more cause and effect than whether an error causes a run to score. far as being projected to tie with the cubs at 87 wins. 87 wins is weak for a cardinals team expectations and im a old school cardinal fan. I hate the cubs and being content with losing to them or finishing tied with them isn’t enough.
Wow, a lot to say there, 1982. Yes, the Cards owners have a lot of money. All of the owners do. I think Goldschmidt and a full year of Bader will help the defense. Personally, I don’t care about projections, but cited them because they are all we have to measure (sort of) objectively, and they suggest the Cards are as good as the Cubs on paper (computer). That means the perception is that the Cards have improved more than the Cubs so far this winter. No, they haven’t done everything some fans want.
As I’ve asked before about him and other players seemingly on the bubble, what is the benefit of releasing them now vs. seeing how they look in the spring?
Sure there’s no harm in keeping him on the roster right now but there’s very little benefit in keeping him on the roster. If the thought process is to keep him just in case another lefty goes down before opening day you’ve already put your bullpen in a disadvantage.
bccran:
Could be the folks making the projections do not think the Cardinals are as good as the Front office and fans think they are.
BHC, since we do agree on one point – that there is no harm keeping Cecil on the roster now – why not back off until later the demands he be released? We all know it isn’t going to happen now, anyway. So we just repeat the same points every time it is brought up. (Same with Gregerson.) Let’s wait until spring and see what happens when pitchers actually throw pitches to hitters.
Cecil felt he rediscovered his curve last spring. He didn’t. There is every chance he will find it this spring and earn his money if he gets a chance. There is zero chance if you cut him now.
Or worse, he is released now, discovers his curve this spring in someone else’s camp, and the Cards pay him two years to be effective for another team. Worse yet, what if the new team is in the division? Imagine the howls if that happened! Idiotic, clueless front office for releasing him when they didn’t have to!
I’m interested to see if the shift makes a difference in
Cecil’s results. Shildt will be using the shift next season, Matheny hardly ever used the shift. I think a pitcher could get into a groove where he’s pitching to the shift whether he realizes it or not. If that happens, and you take the shift away from him, it could hurt him. This is all speculation, so we’ll have to wait and see what happens. Another explanation for Cecil’s ineffectiveness that I know of is that ‘the batters are no longer swinging at his down and away slider’. I guess that means that the batters now have Cecil figured out. Id say that that’s a pretty weak explanation since the batters never figured him out prior to the years that he came to the Cardinals. If somebody knows of some other reason that Cecil has been ineffective, I’d love to hear it. He’s too young to be over the hill.
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