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Is anyone else extremely worried and bothered by the fact that the Cards front office is shopping Martinez, our most consistent hitter last year) while all but crowning Fowler the starting RF. Martinez hits for average and power. How much more fearsome is our lineup with him in it. He seems like a team guy and a positive presence in the clubhouse. On the other hand, we have Fowler who at his best is streaky, and at his worst looking up at the Mendoza line. He also seems to me like a temper-mental poison pill in the clubhouse. I know that Fowler’s contract is problematic and money talks, but from a team building perspective, I’d much rather have Martinez, even if we have to take a financial hit.
Why worry? Cards don
t need help in RF-they have the Great Fowler and Granite Glove JMartinez.One cant hit or field and the other cant catch a cold.Two garbage OFs while ONeill likely gets hosed over because the FO doesnt have the balls to do the right thing.Also Cards dont need a 26 year guy who can probably get better heading into his prime years because they don`t want to pay the money or length of contract.Well its their money and their choice so it is what it is.No risk no biscuit.I liek JOse…but if he can return us a top lefty, we need that more IMO…JMArt in RF is passable but not dependable…and with FOwler obviously getting time and ONeill deserving time somebody has to make way
If we could move Fowler somehow then i would keep him for platoon OF duties and pinch hitting, but idont see a match for Fowler anywhere
Would Fowler to LAD help them in any way get under the luxury tax stuff? Id take Kemp if it helped
Simple solution – play Ty O’Neill. Dexter becomes the fourth outfielder, who can fill in at any of the three spots. Martinez, if he is still here, is a potent bat off the bench at a key moment late in a game.
Or management could shell out a bunch of money and sign Bryce Harper.
I think O
Neill could hit .400 with 5-6 HRs next spring and Fowler will still be named starting RF.This FO doesnt have the guts to sit Fowler.He will get more chances and chances so the FO can save face and try and recoup their moneys worth.I hate to see Jose Martinez be traded. I enjoy watching him take an AB. He’s one of those players that doesn’t seem to care who the pitcher is. For JMart, it’s ‘Just show me the ball.’ OTOH, when he makes one of those errors where the ball hits him on the glove and falls on the ground, it’s embarrassing for everybody. There would be an uproar if we ever lose an important game that way. We need left-handed bullpen help, and JMart seems like the best trade chip we have. But if they trade him, no speculation. Get somebody good in return. If they can’t get a fair return for JMart, I’m fine with keeping him on the team.
Do those who want to keep JMart want to trade Gyorko instead? Remember the 25-man roster reality. If they add the LHH infielder, there isn’t going to be room for everyone.
I understand the fiscal constraints as well as the 25 man roster limitations, I just don’t like Fowler as a fit on this team. He’s a liability that we are hoping returns to form. I think that hope is misplaced. Eat the contract and move him somewhere else. I think it would be an addition by subtraction situation.
Continue to look for a left handed bat and if necessary trade JMart or Gyorko to get it. But don’t ship off talent that has been a consistent contributor, only to be left holding onto a player that adds so little value and could drag us down.
There are two things that I absolutely cannot tolerate about Jose Martinez. First, its his pitiful glove. How can a big leaguer be so pathetic with a glove? That makes no sense to me. And second, its all the goofy stuff from him. I don’t like goofy ballplayers. Cardinal Baseball is about hard nosed players, not goofy stuff.
And for what its worth, the other Martinez is also wearing thin on me. His goofy antics with the cup stacking, throwing water, hair colors, etc, are pretty stupid if you ask me.
r/Rat
I think one of Gyorko or JMart has to go… not because they dont have worth..but we just dont have room and we have need for help in the pen that either of them could help us get
Gyorko saying he’d play OF to Shildt i think was also a means to kind of say…”i can play OF as good as JMArt so dont move me without knowing that im probably as good as him out there…”
I agree totally with Brians cover article. Bryce Harper is not worth the contract he is going to get.
I understand that some are unhappy that Shildt was extended and part of that is that he played Fowler after being named as manager. I don’t believe that he would have left Fowler out there but 16 games is not a lenthy try out. A new manager taking over a contentious situation needs to give everyone a fresh start particularly high dollar guys. Fowler got his shot and didn’t respond and exited with his injury but I think he was already on his way to the pines. I was not a fan of getting Fowler because he was not a good defender even in the cozy confines of Wrigley Field. I feel that he does more damage in the lineup than writing off the rest of his contract would do. If I were Shildt, Fowler would have to come to spring training healthy, in shape and earn his spot. Ditto for O’Neal.
As for JMart, I would only put him on the field sparingly. First he is about the poorest defender I have seen for awhile and second we should not be curtailing an opportunity for O’Neal to break out. His power is unique and his overall game is solid to above average. His plate appearances were better the last time he came up.
Also I would not give up Martinez for a fringe player. He has real value as a DH and with pinch hitting, in game moves when we need offense and interleague play, he could pick up 2-300 at bats. I would pinch hit him every game, even the blowouts. Looks like we have 10 away AL games so between pinch hitting and DHing he could have over 200 plate appearances on that alone and he would be a significant weapon off the bench.
Got to get rid of Fowler. Let O’Neill have a chance at the permanent RF spot. I agree with the above post that JMartinez can come off the bench as a PH every game and fill in with a spot start when needed or late inning bat when we are behind. If that means we eat a big chunk of Fowlers salary, so be it. This guy is done. I hate to see us try to find a way to start him for 3 more years just because we are saddled with a too large a guaranteed contract. Sick of seeing lesser quality guys start over other more talented guys with upside just because the FO made bad decisions or a player has regressed.
Without a trade and going into ’19 as is, I would like to see O’Neill audition for the starting job and be backed up by JMartinez and Gyorko. We also have AGarcia to take a more serious look at. Robinson seems to be a AAAA type, but most of his starts were in CF and he hits from the left side.
Looking at MLBTR’s top 50 FA predictions, I see 12 players have now signed FA contracts. Of that dozen players, mlbtr’s has correctly predicted the years of their contracts 11 of 12 times.
They missed on Lance Lynn who signed for 3 yrs instead of the two predicted. No-one has signed for a shorter contract than predicted.
I mention this in the RF thread because MLBTR’s predicts Bryce Harper to sign a 14 year contract.
I think we need to turn the page on our thinking about Bryce Harper. I don’t see the Cards signing anybody for that kind of money or for 14 years. Especially when our FO has already accomplished what it set out to do with an impact bat. I think the solution in RF needs to come from within or be filled with a role player. We have the keys to the offense in place. What we need to focus on now is our pitching staff.
Cardfan7791:
You do realize the following things I hope
1. Fowler will be the right fielder in 2019.
2.There will be no audition for right field.
3.O’Neill will be the fourth outfielder.
4. If O’Neill hits .750 in the spring and Fowler hits .083, Fowler will still be the right fielder all year.
5. They never made any attempt to trade Fowler.
6. From the very moment the season ended Fowler was the right fielder for 2019.
7. Fowler will be the right fielder in 2010 and 2021.
8. As long as Junior is in charge no 16 million dollar player will sit on the bench.
Maybe Jose just had a bad year with the leather? If Fowler get a another shot, then Jose certainly deserves one. Stranger things have happened…..wouldnt it be something to see Jose corral himself a Gold Glove in ’19.
PugsleyAddams
Participant
Maybe Jose just had a bad year with the leather? If Fowler get a another shot, then Jose certainly deserves one. Stranger things have happened…..wouldnt it be something to see Jose corral himself a Gold Glove in ’19.The only way that Bozo named Martinez could get a Gold Glove would be if he visited Auric Enterprises. That will test your trivia knowledge.
r/Rat
pmspaid:
Of course I realize those things. But doubling down on a mistake doesn’t make it right, and it doesn’t mean we have to agree with it. Competition is good. It drives people to be better and if allowed to take its natural course, creates a better on field result. Every year, everyone on the team should have to earn their spot, including Fowler and other high priced talent. I’ll always support the Cards, but not always agree with the ownership or management. I want the best team we can put together, not a mediocre team of high priced guys who under perform. I hope I’m wrong about him and he turns out to be a great contributor, a spark, and a team guy. But what I’ve seen so far tells me not to expect that. I get that I’m hoping for something that’s not going to happen. But you can’t honestly believe that Fowler is the best guy for the job.
I prefer O’Neill myself after they mistakenly traded away Pham. But there is no discernable reason to keep Jose Martinez on this team. We would be getting something of value for him as well.
I’m thinking that JoMartinez has more value for this team than other. We need a LH bat to pinch hit. However, if I was him I’d take a thousand practice grounders at 1B every day and a thousand fungos in RF as well.
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