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No Brian I doubt a SP ace is on the radar.Another guy who can fill SP-RP role wouldn`t hurt thing at all.Another Veteran arm to throw in the mix ( Jordan Lyles,Tyson Ross)who can do both start and bullpen.Just a thought as a hedge against the injury bug hitting again.
We have six or seven guys who could be the #5 starter. If we go for another rotation piece it should be a major upgrade.
With 11 potential quality starters, slim chance they will pay big money for another starter. Plus slim to no chance on BH. Let’s do a deep dive into the true needs that are on other threads.
Fine idea, 2016, since a Harper thread is now passé. Thanks very much for your constructive suggestion. It’s always nice to see posters supporting other posters.
See you on other threads.Dan Plesac of MLB Network thinks the Cubs will get Harper on a shorter term deal. Here’s the audio.
https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/video/dan-plesac-gives-his-prediction-bryce-harper-sweepstakes
I see no chance of the Cubs getting him with their current payroll situation – they’d go into the top tier of luxury tax busters.
I think it’s a two team race right now – the Phillies and Dodgers (if they can move Puig and Kemp).
Dan Plesac’s guess is as good as anybody else’s guess. I’ve been thinking that the Cardinals are the sleeper for Harper if the years come down to the 4-6 range. Also, our front office has a respectable relationship with Boras, and with the recent addition of Goldschmidt, St. Louis has become a more desirable destination for any free agent.
“…the FO is scared to go make the huge splash…sure fixing the pen will help a little but right now still a 3rd place team in division…and that is without Mil and Cubs doing ANYTHING yet.”
Not that I trust the computer models as infallible gospel, but the Fangraphs projections have the Cards second to the cubs in the division right now, and trailing Chicago by a scant single game. I expect the Cards, cubs, and Brewers to all still make moves this offseason. I don’t expect any one of them to dramatically out-do the other two, going forward this winter.
Also, I would argue that the Brewers will need to make several smart moves just to stay above 88-90 wins, because they (1)had almost every single thing go really, really right in 2018; and (2)already lost quite a few quality innings, assuming that Wade Miley and Gio Gonzalez and Dan Jennings and Xavier Cedeno sign elsewhere this winter.
That quartet combined for 21 starts and 87 relief appearances, totaling 178.1 IP and a 2.67 ERA. So losing them is a lot like losing a Miles Mikolas off your roster. It’s gonna leave a mark.
And don’t forget, the Cards played nearly .600 baseball after dumping Mabry/Mueller/Matheny in July. And that’s despite playing more than 70% of their second half games against teams with winning records. When you replace the worst hitting coach in baseball with someone competent, great things happen. (Despite facing markedly tougher pitching, the Cardinal team OPS jumped by nearly 40 points over the second half.)
I see the Cards as currently right there, with the two division rivals. And due to their horrible bullpen the Cards have a painfully obvious weakness, while the others do not. So in a weird way, that gives the Birds an offseason advantage — better chance to improve an important facet of the team without breaking the bank.
Teams are meeting with Harper this week here in Vegas. Mozeliak was asked if he has meetings scheduled with any players this week here in Vegas. He shook his head. More telling was his lengthy comments about hoping Fowler returns to 2017 form in 2019.
— Ben Frederickson (@Ben_Fred) December 11, 2018
Bryce Harper Las Vegas rundown: He’s met with several teams here off site in his hometown. And has a few more to go. Also, a “mystery owner” has flown in to visit with him.
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) December 11, 2018
Wasn’t John Heyman discredited as a serious “journalist” more than half a decade ago, due to his incessant shilling for Boras clients? Always seems to be Heyman telling us about “mystery teams” and “mystery owners” — and only when it’s a Scott Boras client. Some coincidence.
Don’t know why Mo or anyone would wish so fondly for Dexter Fowler’s 2017 season. Just 1.6 WAR per Baseball-Reference; and injury-riddled of course. When he plays, he’s mediocre. Then he gets hurt.
Dexter is like the joke about the old women vacationing at a Catskills resort. “The food here is terrible,” says the first one. “Yes,” replies the second. “And such small portions.”
I have posted this a number of times before and I will here again.
While Fowler did have injuries in 2017, when he returned on August 6, his OPS was just a hair under 1.000 for the remainder of the season. Healthy, he was THE best hitter on the team during those final two months.
His fWAR (via Fangraphs) for the full 2017 season was 2.5. Even though it included his negative defense in center, it was still higher than Molina, Wong, Jose Martinez, Grichuk, Piscotty, Diaz, etc… Only Pham, Carpenter and DeJong were better.
So, yes, a 2017 return for Fowler would be pretty good. But if he is hurt again, O’Neill should be ready to step in.
Fair points all, Brian. And maybe the new hitting guru can fix Fowler enough to return most of the way to his best at the plate.
But at 33 and already a poor defender, he just doesn’t represent enough upside to me for 2019, much less beyond. I say Mo should go Full Dombrowski and release him. If Fowler were much more professional, then I’d say keep him as a veteran leader at 4th or 5th outfielder — he’s shown a good work ethic, he has playoff experience. These are not completely inconsequential matters.
But “professionalism” does not describe Dexter. He fussed and fumed about his benching, and still publicly griped about it in October after having months to reflect on his lost season. Through his eyes nothing was his fault. Stupid manager should have kept playing him every day despite his being perhaps the worst player in the Senior Circuit.
The O.E.D. defines “mediocre” as “of only average quality.” That’s Fowler through and through. For his 10-year career, he’s 2.0 WAR player at Fangraphs and 1.8 at Baseball-Reference. The embodiment of mediocrity.
And you know what? From Opening Day they’ll probably bat him 2nd (where the team’s best hitter should bat). Good hitters in front and in back. To try and “get him going.” To try and give precious Dexter Fowler every possible advantage. The heck with the rest of the roster. After all, wouldn’t be fair to Dex to bat him 8th where he belongs. He wouldn’t have any “protection” there.
Oh, but this is a Harper thread. I don’t want Harper. Well, maybe a pint of Old Harper.
*face palm*
Its not everyday you get the chance to sign a 26-year old outfielder with a career .900 OPS and the Cardinals are gonna miss this opportunity for an over-paid mediocre player who spent the entire 2018 sulking like a teenage girl.
Goldschmidt should have a good year and he is a steal at 14 million but what if they don’t win the WS and he leaves after one year? They have left themselves with a one-year window. If they are really players like Mo says they are they they will not stop at Goldschmidt. They will go out and acquire another top quality bat and for longer than one year. If Fowler is the starting right fielder on opening day in 2019 then it will be another mediocre year.
nate said:
Goldschmidt should have a good year and he is a steal at 14 million but what if they don’t win the WS and he leaves after one year? They have left themselves with a one-year window. If they are really players like Mo says they are they they will not stop at Goldschmidt. They will go out and acquire another top quality bat and for longer than one year. If Fowler is the starting right fielder on opening day in 2019 then it will be another mediocre year.
Let’s take these in order.
Goldschmidt should have a good year and he is a steal at 14 million but what if they don’t win the WS and he leaves after one year? They have left themselves with a one-year window.
What if they DO win the World Series? Right now, they are on even ground with the Cubs and Brewers. That is a good place to be. So many people oddly keep looking past 2019.
If they are really players like Mo says they are they they will not stop at Goldschmidt. They will go out and acquire another top quality bat and for longer than one year.
They could go after another quality bat this winter or at mid-season if they need it. They will certainly be active again next winter. Harper is not the only fish in the sea.
If Fowler is the starting right fielder on opening day in 2019 then it will be another mediocre year.
This is totally disconnected from the rest of the discussion. What it reaffirms for me is that the primary reason that many people want Harper is because he is “not Fowler”. They are so anti-Fowler they are willing to support just about anything to see it happen, which is why the subject of Fowler is taking over yet another thread – this time Harper’s. Last time, it was O’Neill.
There are pros and cons to any deal and Harper is no exception. Some act like it is a no-brainer, when it is not. It is a huge, potentially franchise-altering move. If I was the Cardinals, I would move very cautiously, too. (But I am not!)
Being ok with Fowler in RF is MO doubling down on his stupid signing of him and in the process missing one of the best young FA we have seen in awhile…typical cards garbage!
Boras bluster, as he equates the Nats franchise value to one player. Right.
As noted previously (by C2016, I think), on the business side, Harper could help a team with empty seats and bad TV ratings much more than an already-successful franchise.
“The way to articulate this in true business form is look at the Nats’ franchise. It was worth $480 to $500 million before he got there, and now it’s worth more than $2 billion. TV ratings have tripled.
“Every GM in baseball wants him because he fills a need, but the owners are pursuing Bryce Harper because they know he can also make them a billion dollars over a period of years.”
IMHO if Fowler is the starting RF opening day that tells me this team is happy being a fringe contender and refuses to get in the adults pool.Fowler was,is and will be a mistake that keeps on stinging the Cards .If the Cards won`t spend money on Harper (26 year OF) this offseason what makes people think that the FO will get involved in spending for Arenado (who will likely cross the 25-30 million AAV threshold and Anthony Rendon who might be a tiny bit cheaper? Arenado will be what 28-29 nex offseason and Rendon just turns 30.Two top of the line 3B stars and both are very good offensively and defensively.And people think the Cards FO will spend next season..LMAO.
No one says anyone has to be “OK” with Fowler in RF, but like it or not, that appears to be the initial plan of the team. Unlike some others, I do not see the projected opening day lineup as a signal of doom for the entire 2019 season. And to the point of this thread, the team with Fowler and without Harper is already competitive, with more additions coming to areas where help is needed. If O’Neill is as good as some think, he will push Fowler out of the way. Bottom line, Harper is a luxury, not a necessity.
We just keep talking in circles, Bw52. There is no reason to assume anything about next off-season because of Harper this year. The team was willing to spend big on Stanton last year, but now the circumstances are different. Next year, the situation will be different again. It is silly to think any of us can accurately predict the future.
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