2019 closer/relievers thread – Miller + ?

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This topic contains 259 replies, has 35 voices, and was last updated by Avatar Bob Reed 10 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #74122
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    The feeling seems to be that Kimbrel could sign relatively quickly, with the Cardinals rumored to be among the teams interested.

    #74126
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    gscottar
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    Well if we are going to go this route we might as well sign the best reliever available, which is Kimbrel.

    #74136
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    gscottar
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    Of course Morosi could just be using the Cardinals to gin up interest in Kimbrel since the Cards seldom confirm or deny interest in a particular player.

    #74137
    Brian Walton
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    I doubt his source was the Cardinals. More likely the agent. As we should all know by now, “looking into” and “making a competitive offer to” are very different.

    Goold sticking to the party line. I highly question the assertion that Hicks is “imminently” ready to close for a contending team, but I get that they are grooming him for it.

    #74138
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    Bob Reed
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    Forget free agent relievers on the wrong side of 30. Especially the very expensive ones. Most especially the very expensive ones who also cost a draft pick.

    I say trade, trade, trade.
    There are plenty of excellent young relievers on bad A.L. teams, relievers with 3 or 4 or 5 years of control remaining. The Cards have a very good and cheap DH to trade — maybe the second best DH on the planet right now, after JD Martinez. The Cards also have more elite catching prospects than they can use.

    And the Cards also have some interesting other prospects like Ryan Helsley, Dylan Carlson, Randy Arozarena, Leandro Cedeno, Jake Woodford and many more who might make a good sweetener, a complementary piece in a deal. And finally and maybe most importantly and overlooked, the Cards have payroll room to take on a bad contract or three if necessary as part of a deal. (Edwin Diaz, Felix Hernandez, and Kyle Seager spring to mind.)

    Payroll space can be leveraged in more than one way.

    #74139
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    Bob Reed
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    Sorry. Meant to mention this. Jordan Hicks walked 19 batters in his final 23 innings in 2018. We don’t even know if he’s healthy. But he ain’t ready to close.

    By OPS allowed, Jordan’s worst two months by far were August and September, with an on-base allowed of .403 and .375. I like the guy a lot, but Derrick Goold got drunk the first time he saw 103 on the radar gun, and he’s never been sober since.

    I feel terrible for Hicks. He was never given any chance to hone his craft, to learn anything much about how to pitch. And now that he’s in MLB, every outing will be about nothing more than getting through the inning. With just 20-something innings above Low-A ball before being shoved to the majors, he will never be what he could have been — whether that’s as a reliever or starter. Ten or fifteen years from now, Mo will look back at Jordan Hicks’ career and reproach himself. As well he should. You don’t do to anyone what they’ve done to Hicks. (That’s why it pretty much never happens, with any pitcher, in any organization, ever.)

    #74141
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    gscottar
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    Good points all around Robert.

    #74142
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    What do you want? Hicks had Norris to mentor him. 😉

    Seriously, the party line is that Hicks simply ran out of gas. While I could buy that, I don’t think he was ready to close, even at his best.

    But as Bob Reed noted, there are many other ways to approach the need, short of much money and many years for a Kimbrel, who was the only reliever to receive a qualifying offer this year.

    #74143
    jj-cf-stl
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    Kimbrel = Q-offer. Not a deal breaker but an added cost.

    Davidson Robertson plz.
    Donaldson, Robertson and Bozo for the best LH arm possible.

    How would that fit the player budget GScottar?

    #74191
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    #74192
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    gscottar
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    jj-cf-stl
    jj-cf-stl

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    Kimbrel = Q-offer. Not a deal breaker but an added cost.

    Davidson Robertson plz.
    Donaldson, Robertson and Bozo for the best LH arm possible.

    How would that fit the player budget GScottar?

    Adding Robertson, Donaldson, and say Rogers from Minnesota would fit into the budget easily. I suspect if the Cardinals wanted to they could spend all the way up to the luxury tax line ($206M) and still be profitable. They are at $136M right now. Obviously I don’t expect them to do that but I could see them getting up to $175M or $180M for sure.

    #74193
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    858booyah
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    Hicks isn’t ready to close. If the intent is for him to be the future guy then the best option is to sign a guy that’s had close experience to a short term deal and just hand him the 8th for now. Either that or as I’ve been saying for a couple off seasons you make Alex Reyes the closer slash Kanley Jansen role for a season a groom him for a rotation spot in 2020.

    Those comments just tell me that were going after Harper as our 1st priority and then if that falls in we’ll go after Donaldson and the pen.

    #74194
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    forsch31
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    While I don’t want a 6 year contract to a closer, I hope the Cardinals don’t walk away from Kimbrel. I wouldn’t mind the 4 year deal for Kimbrel.

    #74195
    stlcard25
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    For those worried about the Qualifying Offer, remember that signing one of those guys will cost a second round pick this year rather than a first under the new CBA. So…not insignificant, but less than under the previous deal. The Cards would still maintain their pick in the Competitive Balance Round B, after the 2nd round.

    #74219
    jj-cf-stl
    jj-cf-stl
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    Thanks GS

    #74223
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    CariocaCardinal
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    I would be satisfied with Donaldson, Robertson, lefty reliever. I would also like to see us strengthen our backup SS depth but that would be a bonus. But the reality is we have enough trade chips to do more than that. It doesn’t help to have 11 starters if there isn’t room for them all. I have always been in the trade Kelly and get some value for him camp. If you sign Gyrko I can see advantages and disadvantages of keeping Gyrko but he might be trade bait also.

    #74232
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    PadsFS
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    I would like Andrew Miller and David Robertson.

    Both, beyond being excellent pitchers, would shore up the K/9 aspect that our bullpen lacks too. Brebbia and Norris were the only ones with meaningful innings that were above a K an inning.

    #74242
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    gscottar
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    This guy thinks we are in on everyone…

    #74253
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    thejager
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    We cant be in on Miller unless he is for sure healed ANd probably at a reduced rate…no way they take another shot at adding a known injured player (Ozuna) which is supposed to solve their problems (lefty relief and closing..or last year MOTB)…as the backlash from Ozuna has to have bothered the FO

    Miller is as dominant as any pitcher when he was healthy…can we be certain of that health? and if not is his rate low enough to take the risk? I doubt he is going to be marketed as hurt so i haev to assume he is supposed to be healthy…but that feels hard to risk with how last year played out for him…

    #74254
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    UncleDenny
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    Herrera and Familia good choices.

    #74257
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    gscottar
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    Dennis Johnson

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    Herrera and Familia good choices.

    They are good choices but they aren’t LH. I think the FO is determined to focus on LH relievers and LH hitters unless they are forced to fall back to Plan B’s and Plan C’s.

    #74259
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    thejager
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    Any talk about Britton at all? I am surprised he hasnt come up

    and if we are targeting late game lefties…why not call up the Giants and ask about Will Smith or Tony Watson…both are outstanding lefties and Smith did a pretty good job closing late last year

    #74312
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    PadsFS
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    thejager

    We cant be in on Miller unless he is for sure healed ANd probably at a reduced rate…no way they take another shot at adding a known injured player (Ozuna) which is supposed to solve their problems (lefty relief and closing..or last year MOTB)…as the backlash from Ozuna has to have bothered the FO

    Miller’s injury issues last year were with the hamstring and knee mostly. He had an impingment in his shoulder, but he was out just 10 days for that. He also came back strong afterward.

    Being 34, I don’t think it would be a long contract for him anyway. Plus, if he can’t hold down the fireman/closer role, he still can become your LOOGY. We need some veterans in the bullpen and there is none better than Miller imo.

    #74314
    stlcard25
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    Miller’s velocity is down some, but it hasn’t exactly fallen off a cliff. He should age better than a Cecil, so that risk isn’t super high. I wouldn’t mind having him.

    #74418
    bicyclemike
    bicyclemike
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    i agree on the comments about Jordan Hicks not being ready for the big time. Ideally I would like to see the Cardinals plan for the long term with him, as he could be something special. He’s not even close to being there yet, though.

    Have him pitch in AA as a starter to begin the 2019 season, with a plan to move him to Memphis if he simply overpowers the AA opposition. But most of all, get him some innings in a lower stress environment; allow him to work on his control, and do things other than just lighting up the pitch-speed reading. A period of learning and maturing will do wonders. Come 2020 and beyond, the club will be happy they did.

    More years of using him like 2018, and you will see a TJ surgery around 2022, and possibly his name added to the many who occupy the “what could have been” list.

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