The Front Office's place in all of this chaos.

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This topic contains 423 replies, has 35 voices, and was last updated by Avatar 858booyah 4 weeks, 1 day ago.

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  • #60166
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    SoonerinNC
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    Although we are fading pretty bad with our starting pitching and Hicks and Norris to close there is still an outside chance.

    Two factors really hurt; (1) defense and other fundamental glitches and (2) inconsistent offense. We have scored two runs or less in 26 games so far. We have lost 25 of them. We are 7-7 in games where we scored 3 runs. That is 28.3% of our total games scoring 2 runs or less. 43.5% of our games scoring 3 or less. Accounting for 32 of our 45 losses. Hard for good pitching to overcome. We must be more consistent on offense.

    As for the front office the lack of production from players acquired as free agents and in trades was similar last year. We have lived off our minor league system and it has just fallen a bit short.

    IMHO the front office has been timid and too reluctant to let prospects go. We have been loaded at Memphis and are destroying everyone. Those guys are not helping the parent Cardinals and possibly could have been traded for someone who could help in St. Louis. Trading prospects for vets is a high risk thing but sometimes you just have to take the chance if you have holes at the top level. You have to wonder what we could have picked up for Kelly and Reyes at the beginning of the season.

    #60230
    EuroWolf
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    God help us now that Mo and Girsch are going to have some no-kidding important decisions/inputs to make. I’m not confident. Will they have a vote in this with BDW, like Mo intimated they do on some of the player personnel decisions? Smart execs pre-determine a subsequent dependent decision prior to making the preceding decision.

    #60273
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    mudville
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    IMO, while they’re considering new hires, they ought to give some thought to replacing Randy Flores. I think having no prospects in the top fifty of the Baseball Prospectus ranking is mainly his fault, with MO a close second. I don’t buy into the other explanations such as the 2017 draft. Also, could somebody offer an explanation as to why the 2016 international signing period was such a flop? I have to think Flores had a hand in that, also. Mo certainly did.

    #60340
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    Cardinals2016
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    What we have more of is overrated underachieving “don’t blame me” whiners that flap off despite knowing it will be disruptive to the team. Did I mention the ME-firsters. This current team is an embarrassment.

    The Cardinals should know who all those players are, they let this get out-of-hand by not immediately shipping off those players.

    #60342
    Brian Walton
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    No, Randy Flores was not and is not responsible for international signings. That was part of the duties of Moises Rodriguez, who was since promoted to assistant GM.

    #60355
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    14NyquisT
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    The first two sentences from Jeff Gordon’s column in the PD.

    Cardinals manager Mike Matheny is gone, to the delight of angry fans who have been demanding his ouster for years.
    So now the public focus shifts to the front office that assembled this mish-mash roster and to the players who are failing this season.

    Some have said here that players don’t want to come to St Louis anymore… and you think that potential managerial candidates do? Right now the dugout is more like a snake pit.

    mozeliak has to go…. and he can take his fowlers and ozunas and hollands and cecils and gregersons and leones with him. Good job.

    #60421
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    gmaske71
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    Perhaps the people that are positive are just sick of getting drowned out by all the negativity of the vocal minority?

    I think you’re on to something, Pads. The thing is, we have absolutely no idea–none–how representative the malcontents on internet sites are of Cardinal fans as a whole. But I will say that by one indicator–attendance–the team is still doing okay with its fans. Of course the haters ridicule fans for still going to the games because, after all, the Birds are only playing .500 ball.

    #60423
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    gmaske71
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    Think of it like this, we are set at every position with, at a minimum, average talent for the next five years.

    Average talent makes us a .500 ball club, which is what we are. I think our talent level is not “average, at a minimum,” but “average, period.”

    #60424
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    bccran
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    Average talent in position players and way above average talent in pitchers gives you a shot to go a long way in the playoffs.

    #60432
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    TheLonelyBull
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    What is it? Three drafts for Flores and you want to get rid of him – where one of those drafts was bereft of a pick before the third round through no fault of his own? Because there are no prospects in the top 50? His top pick from his first draft is still only 19, all of the international signing you allude to are around that age and lower – else they are guys like Arozarena and Adolis Garcia who have both flashed MLB talent. Give us all a break and adjust your expectations.

    #60441
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    bccran
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    2016 draft brought us Perez, Carlson, Hudson, Jones, Gallen, Martinez, Edman, Knizner, Tewes, Billings, Trosclair, etc.

    Perez and Carlson are starting to come around in a long development process. Hudson is on the major league doorstep. Knizner is challenging Kelly for catcher of the future. Gallen was used as a trade chip for Ozuna.

    2017 draft was pretty much a bust for obvious reasons.

    2018 draft was strong with Gorman, Roberts, Baker, Gingery, Gil, Dunn, etc. Gorman may be one of the Cardinals most exciting draft picks in a decade or more.

    Seems like Flores is doing a pretty good job.

    #60455
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    mudville
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    Hudson looks like a real prospect. Knizner looks like he might be able to help someday, too. All the rest of the 2016 draft has been around for at least parts of three seasons, but haven’t shown anything to get excited about.

    I’m not necessarily saying Flores should be fired. But I’m not sure he’s the best available, either. He got hired because he developed some kind of technology that uses lasers and photograph to assess a prospect, not because he’s had success in the trenches as a scout. Now that I think about it, maybe some of my doubt about Flores is based on not really understanding what he does. I just know that the bit with the lasers and photographs sounds sort of gimmicky to me.

    #71740
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    The many discussions we held about the Houston hacking case were lost with the old board. For those interested in a refresher on the details of the case, I summarized it in 2017.

    The Comprehensive Cardinals Correa Chronicle on Houston Hacking

    The new news is an in-depth article from Sports Illustrated about Correa’s life in prison. He is now in a half-way house and with his sentence reduced, can be released by December 31.

    https://www.si.com/mlb/2018/10/04/chris-correa-houston-astros-hacker-former-cardinals-scouting-director-exclusive-interview

    #71742
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    14NyquisT
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    Bringing back an oldie but a goodie topic. FO and chaos…. it still rings true.

    #71746
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    This seemed like the best place to put the Correa news article. I doubted there would be enough talk about him to justify a new thread. He still isn’t talking about others and says he does not intend to.

    #71756
    stlcard25
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    Whether Correa had backing from anyone else in the F.O. or not, there’s no denying that the penalties for the scandal significantly altered the future of both franchises, at least in the short term. The Cards, knowing they were about to get hit with significant penalties, opened the checkbook to sign Dexter Fowler after 2016. They then lost picks 56 and 75 to Houston…who selected Corbin Martin and JJ Matijevic. While the latter has been Ok as a slugging 1B, the former is one of Houston’s top prospects and has done nothing but pitch well since he signed.

    #71935
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    #72224
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    Front office-related info…

    I know many are not Atlantic subscribers, but there is also fascinating data that show the Cards are among MLB’s four-worst bullpens in aggregate since 2000.

    On the positive side, they have the second-most players in MLB (signed or drafted). Again the quantity point is made.

    #74810
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    BA (subscription required) ranks Mo as the #7 front office exec in MLB.

    #74812
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    CariocaCardinal
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    Does that say more about Mo or more about BA?

    #74814
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    mspaid
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    Mo may be great at saving Junior money, he does deserve credit for that. But the players he acquires (Mikolas the lone exception and Norris for half a season) suck. Fowler, Leake, Cecil, Moss, Masterson, Ozuna, Gregorson, Holland, etc. If they rank Mo as no. 7 then the ones behind him must be God-awful.

    #75144
    Brian Walton
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    Just had a chance to review Rick Hummel’s chat yesterday. Two different times, he said that one of the reasons Donaldson was not a fit for the Cards is that his salary would be higher than Molina’s, but Harper could be ok as an exception.

    If that really reflects what the front office is thinking, they are either letting the inmates run the asylum or have come up with the lamest excuse possible for not spending.

    I am neither anti-ownership nor pro-sign Donaldson, but this amazes me, and not positively.

    #75162
    stlcard25
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    That’s absurd. The Donaldson fiasco has really soured my view on this front office/ownership.

    They’re paying Brett Cecil more to be a lead weight in the bullpen over 4 years than it cost to get a recent MVP caliber player at a clear position of need. Even if it was over one year, it’s astounding.

    #75167
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    I started to put my earlier comment on the Donaldson thread, but moved it here instead, because my rub is not on whether he signed with the Cardinals or not, but instead how the Cardinals are (according to Hummel) looking at the market.

    #75169
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    Cardinals2016
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    Two different times, he said that one of the reasons Donaldson was not a fit for the Cards is that his salary would be higher than Molina’s,

    Wow. Then the front office needs to go.

    Also, when they signed Fowler, they justified it that “it’s only money.” Now, they refuse to upgrade right field unless they can move Fowler’s contract.

    Ineptitude.

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