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Great trade I think. Worse case scenario is Weaver and Kelly both improve. Could happen. Not sure anyone we traded is contributing in 2019. Now Knizner with some minor league seasoning may be ready to help some time next year. I hope we don’t get draft compensation for Goldie, and work on an extension for him.
So who
s the backup catcher for when Yadi takes another shot to the body and goes on the DL? How does this affect Andrew Knizners situation? I read the plan was to have Knizner start the season at AAA to continue to refine his defense.The other guy signed is Joe Hudson a 27 guy who got less than 20 ABs with the Angels last September.I sure as hell hope Francisco Pena isnt coming back again.I suspect another minor league deal for a guy with some MLB experience who can actually catch and play defense.Big win only if he has a good year. As far as signing him long term no thanks. Can we say Pujols after 31??
Arizona picked up a nice group of prospects. I don’t know what kind of stats Kelly is going to put up in the years ahead. But he’s got a presence similar to what Godlschmidt carries. I still have high hopes for Young. Weaver is going to get better and better. The D-Backs did well with this trade, IMO. I really like Goldschmidt. Who doesn’t? He is exactly the kind of player that the St. Louis fan base will embrace. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Cardinals extended Goldschmidt before the 2019 season starts.
This is a steal for the Cardinals. We get a MVP type player and lose three very replaceable players. Losing the draft pick stings more than losing Weaver, Kelly, and Young. The Cardinals probably figure they will get that pick back if Ozuna or Goldy leave after next season. Either way 2019 is looking brighter!!
Now let’s fix the bullpen.
Big win only if he has a good year. As far as signing him long term no thanks. Can we say Pujols after 31??
There is no guaranteed way that elite players age. Albert struggled, especially with injuries. But there’s no saying that that Goldy might not be another Beltre, who arguably got better after 31 (and was definitely healthier).
Of course there is no way of telling. But the odds are after 32 there will be a decline. How steep who knows?
Everyone will have their take on the #stlcards trade for Paul Goldschmidt. Here is mine. (free) https://t.co/olnDRNsdnX pic.twitter.com/RcY5H71XCX
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) December 5, 2018
If Goldy turns out to be just a 1-year rental, it could still be a good deal if it’s the difference maker that puts the Cards back into the playoffs. If it leads to a follow-on deal, it could be a great trade.
I’m ambivalent. is it possible to be extremely ambivalent? Twelve months ago, it would have been a fine deal for the Cards. Two seasons of Goldy, great!
But one year of Goldy — or worse, he gets signed to a massive albatross of a contract extension that runs into his late 30’s — for Carson Kelly plus Weaver plus multiple sweeteners? Definitely improves the team for 2019, of course. But for every single year beyond that, it makes things at least a little worse.
Now maybe Knizner will really, really blossom for Memphis this year. And maybe I’m wrong that Luke Weaver was pitch-tipping, and will be a #1/2 starter once a team fixes that problem. We’ll see.
Goldy’s great, and the Cards will still have Gyorko in case Carp blows his arm out playing 3rd base. So that’s a good thing.
But I still say what I’ve always said. The 2018 lineup was objectively very good. So was the rotation. Therefore the place to invest both money and prospect talent was and is the bullpen. Let’s hope that Kikuchi is the next move, followed by a reliever or two.
Also, Welcome Mr. Goldschmidt.
Apropos of nothing, three weeks ago the Cards were 18-1 to win the World Series. Three days ago it was 20-1. Three minutes ago it was 23-1. (Cubs are 10-1, Brewers 14-1.)
I guess Bovada doesn’t like Paul Goldschmidt much. 😉
You see, even Vegas wants you to fix the bullpen, Mo!
I’m ambivalent. is it possible to be extremely ambivalent? Twelve months ago, it would have been a fine deal for the Cards. Two seasons of Goldy, great!
Bob, I respect the heck out of your opinions. You are well spoken and everything is so well thought out that it’s difficult to find a lot of fault in your logic.
That said, baseball doesn’t always play out by logic. Sometimes, you’ve just gotta take a chance that your prospects won’t pan out as well as the guy you’re looking to add will. And that will not work out, occasionally. But when it does…it can be magnificent. (See the logically horrendous trade of Gleyber Torres for a half season of Aroldis Chapman by our evil rivals two years back).
Flags fly forever, and this move puts the team a step closer to having that option (NL Central, pennant, World Series). Even if it’s 3-5% closer, would you wager much that Kelly, Weaver or Young improve those odds even that much in the next several years??
Thanks for the kind sentiments, Mr. Lankford. I cannot dispute any of your observations about the trade, or team-building in general, really.
And I’m already warming more to the deal, having glanced over Goldy’s career splits. As a batter he looks like a bigger better version of Yadi Molina, i.e., a true actual clutch hitter — but of course on a grander scale.
Goldschmidt, career:
Bases empty .870 OPS
Men on base 1.000
RISP……… 1.025High leverage .968
Medium .941
Low .902And finally, Goldy is still killing “power pitching”, unlike a certain right fielder we all know. So there’s no marker for age-related slider-batspeed decline yet for Goldschmidt. Heck, I’m even starting to think that an extension isn’t a completely terrible idea, if it’s only guaranteed through age 36 or so.
The more I think on it, it really is one of those “old school” Cardinal type moves we’ve seen over the past 15-20 years. Maybe it’s the Christmas spirit, but my partial humbuggishness is fading by the minute.
Bob, let’s see what the oddsmakers do with a bit more time to assess the situation. It looks to me like there is a dwindling window to place a handsome bet at 23-1.
Fair trade I guess. Cards make themselves 3-4 wins better in 2019. Give up some lottery tickets. Weaver could be really good if he gets it together but we had too many starters as it was. Kelly, love his leadership skills but hard to say if he will hit. Young has exciting potential but then again he could ne Jacob Wilson. Clears a roster space at least.
We got a year.
We gave up what appeared to be lessening possibilities.
Goldschmidt for a draft choice.
As I said earlier, I hope nobody expects Goldschmidt to hit .330 with 40 dingers and 125 rbis. More like around .290 with 25-30 dingers and 90 rbis. But put him in the middle of the lineup with, hopefully, a healthy Ozuna, and things could get interesting.
Carpenter
Fowler
Ozuna
Goldschmidt
DeJong
Molina
Bader
WongAnd how does this affect Matt Adams? He’s a free agent, right? Assume no chance at this point he will be returning back to St. Louis? Or am I wrong?
v. LHP: Carp, Bader, Goldy, Ozuna, O’Neill, Yadi, DeJong, Wong, pitcher
v. RHP: Carp, Wong, Goldy, Ozuna, DeJong, O’Neill, Yadi, Bader, pitcher
Have to have Bader near the top v. lefties. Anywhere from 2nd to cleanup. And DeJong has hit righties better than southpaws for his career thus far. Notice also how a fast guy will hit 8th all the time. Good for the pitcher bunting guys over, and also more RBI chances for the top of the lineup.
Now just trade a very good-but-not-great prospect to Minnesota for Taylor Rogers and Jason Castro. Cards get a quality backup backstop who makes too much money, plus a solid southpaw for the bullpen. (Might have to take Addison Reed’s contract as part of the bargain.)
I’d give it a B. I was never a Weaver or Kelly fan and Goldschmidt is very good, especially at 14 million. But he refused an extension so he’s gone after 2019 and we’ll be looking for TWO middle of the order bats for 2020. Unless the Cardinals win the WS it is another bust acquisition. If they sign Harper too then I’ll be back to salute the front office.
Nate, you wouldn’t salute them if they win the 2019 World Series? Or have you already ascertained that is impossible?
I consider it a win when you didn’t call him a slug. I hope you are not getting soft. 😉
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