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I like Story. His defense is elite. But there are definitely concerns with his declining arm strength over the last few years. His OPS in Colorado is 200 points higher than out of Colorado. I wanted Story last off season. I figured the costs of trading for him would be less than Arenado with only 1 year of control and putting him at SS and moving DeJong to 3B (where almost all of his minor league innings where played) would have worked. It will be interesting to see what kind of contract he gets this off season, I don’t see him as a good fit in St. Louis now though. I could see Houston as a major fit for him and being cheaper than bringing back Correa, who I expect the Yankees to give a Lindor like contract to. Seager is really the only SS that I see as a fit, but the cost is a major obstacle since I don’t expect to see them spend on offense at all. If the DH does come to the NL I still say Seager at SS and Gorman as DH getting some time at 2B and 3B is the route I see setting them up best to win. Even if there is injury then they have the depth. I like Nootbarr and Burleson both as LH 4th OF types that will be able to fill in short term really well. Donovan doesn’t have a primary position, as in 1 he plays overly well in the little I’ve seen of him, but his versatility lookalike it could be a huge asset on the bench eventually when his bat is ready.
Don’t know how true but read, think it was sourced to Michael Kay, front office wanted Schildt to make assistant coaching changes going more analytical and Schildt stood by his guys enough it became him going with them. Guess we’ll see who stays around. Or maybe it was Schildt wanted Albert out and Mo was more married to Albert than Schildt.
“On another note, I don’t see why Schumaker is considered a possibility. He has not been with the Cardinals organization for 10 years and came in during the Jockety era.”
He was drafted and developed by the organization and played the majority of his career in it though and knows it well. And more so, he has been coaching on a very analytical team in San Diego and buys into the analytical coaching. I think he’s probably the leading candidate. Clapp has more of a Schildt like coaching style. Marmol I don’t know, but sounds like a Mo guy and maybe that’s who Mo wants to puppeteer the dugout.
Yeah I don’t think there is “showcasing” anymore, unless it is trying to show a guy is healthy enough to trade before the deadline. There are too many scouts and videos now not to be able to get a look at a guy. His AFL to me is just more AB and more time and work as a corner OF. They know he can play 1B, but AB’s aren’t there. He’s serviceable back-up at 3B, but again AB’s aren’t really there either. But if he can add serviceable corner OF then between the 4 spots and probability of DH then AB’s should be there. His corner OF play didn’t start until 2019 and has been pretty limited.
They said it wasn’t a matter of wins and losses, it was a philosophical difference. Which means Schildt and Mo were butting heads over something. I’ve heard players are shocked and upset, doesn’t sound like it was a clubhouse issue either. This was a Schildt and Mo problem.
I don’t want Lester or Haap back. Flaherty, Hudson, Wainwright, Mikolas are there. I’d like to see another front line starter. Scherzer would be great, don’t know if it’s reasonable though. As for McFarland I wouldn’t object to him being back, but if they could get a Rogers or another LH like that I’d prefer it.
2018-2021 Mike Shildt: 252-199 (.559)
2012-2018 Mike Matheny: 591-474 (.555)
1996-2011 Tony La Russa: 1408-1182(.544)
1990-1995 Joe Torre: 351-354 (.498)Talent wins. Not the manager. As long as the manager has talent and doesn’t completely get in the way of that talent then talent will win. Line up construction, I love how mad people got at Schildt over it. It’s pretty irrelevant. People mad Goldschmidt hit 2nd. The Braves hit Solar leadoff! Molina hit too high in the order to me, but I could handle 6th. I didn’t love Schildt, but i sure didn’t dislike him or blame him for much, even if I was screaming a him to leave Gio in the Wild Card game and then again not to bring in Reyes.
and when people say that Cardinals fans are the best… it’s not just saying
I’d like to think that too, but attendance was horrific this year. It’s been over 3 million every year since 2003. 2.9 that year. This season was only 2.1 million, the lowest since 1995 which wasa short year coming off the 1994 strike season. The last time they had this low of attendance in a full season was 1984. I know coming back from a “pandemic” things are different. Cardinals still, I believe, we’re #1 TV views, but the better make attending a game affordable again and fill the seats. The 1 game I attended this year was empty and a shame.
Shildt must not have mindlessly followed wherever Mo led mindlessly enough
My thoughts exactly! No matter the manager there is always going to be fans questioning every move. When they work we love them, when they don’t they are bone heads anybody is better than. For 16 years people question TLR and why he played the veterans and didn’t give the young guys a chance, why he loved Aaron Miles (no disrespect to Miles, just an obvious one I remember about playing his boys), questioned a lot of everything he did. But all in all he won and all was forgiven no matter the heat fans used to give. And some players to an extent, but they all knew their place and what it took to play. Matheny was questioned over pen usage the most I remember. All I’m saying is no matter who is in there questionable decisions will be made, we don’t know everything behind the scenes, but I’ll be willing to say for a manager who did really well taking over for Matheny and now made the playoffs 3 straight years, there is definitely something behind the scenes and major head butting with Mo over something.
John Mozeliak told reporters the organization made the decision based on “philosophical differences” between Shildt and the front office about the direction of the franchise.
I’d love to know more detail about it.
That’s expecting a lot out of O’Neill. I wouldn’t be surprised by a bit of regression in his numbers if he doesn’t improve the K%. Carlson is the one I think could make the biggest jump in production.
jager,
A lot there. I don’t have any want of Pujols back. LeBlanc won’t be back and I agree on the non-tender of Justin Miller. I think all the pending free agents need to go and look for upgrades. I like the idea of trading for Rogers, but I question DeJong’s fit a bit there and what else it would take to make it happen. The money going each place would be pretty close though. If they were able to pull it off I think McFarland wouldn’t be back for sure, but I wouldn’t mind McFarland back if they aren’t able “upgrade”. If Danny Duffy is healthy he’s a LH I think could be really good and stay off the IL working in the pen.
I liked what Rondon provided in his limited role and the defensive versatility is nice. But I question if he’d come back on a minor league deal. He played well enough a “rebuilding” team or even a small market team could give him a guaranteed deal. I think a team like Oakland, who has a lot of free agents and always cash strapped, could guarantee him a deal for his versatility.forsch31
What’s your thoughts on Vina 2001-2003 or Womack leading off in 2004 (the best Cardinal offensive team I remember)? They never had great OBP or OPS, but they put the ball in play, worked counts, stole bases. I liked both those guys and they hit leadoff for some of the best Cardinals offenses and winning teams. I like Edman more than either of them too and think he has more potential too.
Also, you talk of Schildt sticking with DeJong. LaRussa used to sticking the veteran too and make the young guy prove himself, it’s frustrating sometimes but makes the player better. Skip Schumaker couldn’t get a chance for a long time, once he proved himself to Tony though he was definitely one of his guys. There’s still a lot of questions about if Sosa can handle more or be exposed. Remember there was talk in spring training about what to do with Sosa because he was out of options and the possibility of DFA was there. Now, Reyes. I agree with his control he was being run out there in way too many crucial situations, including the WC game which I was screaming when he didn’t just stick with Gallegos.Going to have to really disagree with you on Contreras. I want nothing to do with him and especially for Herrera and/or Bader. I’m definitely not a Bader hater though, like many are. And actually I am a Bader believer and like the progress he made this year.
I think of Sosa as Aledmys Diaz. He’s not an everyday guy, good utility and serviceable short term fill in.
I’d put money there will be a DH in 2022. My guess Gorman will be the DH vs RHP and occasionally spelling Arenado at 3B and Edman at 2B. And vs LHP it will be Yepez at DH and occasionally spelling Goldschmidt at 1B.
I’m sure it is. I just said what I’d like to see and I didn’t think they’d spend, but I’d like to see them go all in for Wainwright and Molina farewell. But San Diego didn’t succeed in buying a ring either, so it’s no guarantee. And it’s also not my money I’m hypothetically spending a lot of.
I’d wouldn’t mind Seager either. Defensively DeJong is probably better, offensively there’s no comparison and Seager is a LH bat too which the team needs. The return for DeJong wouldn’t be much with his last couple seasons. He has 2 years of control at $6.2 and $9.2 and then 2 option years. I think they can find a suitor for him though and hopefully package Justin Williams with him.
Seager(28) and Correra (27) are going to enter the market with Lindor(28) just signing a 10 year $341 million extension. Other comparable contracts are Arenado (2019) 7 years $234 million, Trout (2019) 10 years $360 million, Betts (2020) 12 years $365 million.
I think the season Correra is coming off of and his defense are going to make him the highest paid SS of this class and he could see close to if not match Lindor’s contract. I think Seagers average defense and injury history keeps him from getting there but 7 years and $200-230 with an 8th year option is at least what I think it takes. The Cardinals are freeing up quite a bit of wasted money in Carpenter, Martinez, Miller, Fowler. But they also have Goldschmidt and Arenado contracts and Flaherty coming. I don’t known if they will spend, even as much as I’d love to see them go “all in” for Wainwright and Molina last year and add Seager and Scherzer, but I’m sure Scherzer is going to command 2 years and probably $80 million.Edman 2B (S)
Goldschmidt 1B (R)
Seager SS (L)
Arenado 3B (R)
O’Neill LF (R)
Carlson RF (S)
Gorman DH (L) 2B/3B
Molina C (R)
Bader CF (R)Sosa IF (R)
Yepez 1B/3B/LF/RF (R)
Nootbaar OF (L)
Knizner C (R)Scherzer, Flaherty, Hudson, Wainwright, Mikolas
Woodford, Reyes, McFarland (L), Helsley/Whitley, Garcia, Cabrera (L), Hicks, Gallegos
McFarland is a free agent and I wouldn’t mind him back, but if they can land an upgrade via DeJong trade package over McFarland or just to sure up the pen in general more, maybe over Garica or Woodford (could remain a starter in AAA), it would be nice. Let Reyes stretch out as a starter and get a chance possibly if there is an injury. If not I’d use him as a multiple inning guy and maybe some spot starts, just have to see how that plays out and what he does to improve that terrible BB%.
You’re right. I forgot about him. I was thinking Cole was still the highest AAV pitcher. I knew Trout was high and I also forgot the Mets gave Lindor $34/year for 10 years. But Bauer was 40 in 2021 and 45 for 2022. So Scherzer could use that as a structure for his. Seager is definitely going to use that Lindor contract to base his. Which puts him out of the question for me. There is no way I’d give him 10 years or 34/yr with the injury history and defense that isn’t going to stick at SS for the life of the contract.
I think Seager gets 7 years and $200 million ($28.5 mil/yr avg), with an opt out after 2023, and probably an 8th year option. I don’t know that he’s worth it with the injury history, and he could command more, but he’s a really good bat and they could really use him.
As for Scherzer I think he could possibly break the record for avg annual value. I think he could see a 2 yr $70 million contract with a 3rd year option around $30 million and a $6 million buyout. Meaning it would take a minimum $76 million guaranteed. Cole is at $36 million a year, so my contract for Scherzer wouldn’t break the record, but put him at it…But I’d love to see him in Cardinal red and them make every effort to send Molina and Wainwright out with a ring. As hard as it is to buy a ring (San Diego) they’ve got to make every effort to go for it in 2022.Trade: DeJong, Williams for whatever
1. Edman 2B (S)
2. Goldschmidt 1B (R)
3. Seager SS (L)
4. Arenado 3B (R)
5. O’Neill LF (R)
6. Carlson RF (S)
7. Gorman DH (L) 2B/3B back up
8. Molina C (R)
9. Bader CF (R)Sosa IF (R)
Yepez 1B/3B/LF/RF (R)
Nootbaar OF (L)
Knizner C (R)Scherzer, Flaherty, Hudson, Wainwright, Mikolas
Woodford, Reyes, Helsley, McFarland(L), Garcia, Cabrera(L), Hicks, Gallegos
_______________________________________
Plummer CF (L)
Perez SS (R)
Dean DH (R) – OF/1B
Burleson LF (L)
Baker 1B (R)
Donovan 3B (L) – Utility
Herrera C (R)
Robertson 2B (R) – IF
Capel RF (L)Dunn 2B (L), Ascanio IF (R), Lopez UTIL (L), Hurst OF (L), Sanchez C (R)
Liberatore (L), Oviedo, Thompson (L), Rondon, Thomas (L)
Zeuch, Parsons, Elledge?, Jones, Warner (L), Quezada, Waddell (L), Fernandez, Whitley
My AAA could be way off, I was just doing it for my own look at depth. I probably forgot a few and who knows who could be DFA’d and claimed or released, such as Elledge already being DFA. I don’t know that I want Seager, but another bat is needed and probably LH bat. His injury history is a concern and his defense is probably not as good as DeJong and especially not as good as Story, but Story out of Colorado scares me as does the massive drop in his throwing strength over the last few years. But I was just throwing out an idea of making the lineup deeper and adding a LH quality bat and make every effort possible to make the most competitive team is what is surely the last year of Molina and Wainwright.
“Looking around the league for a suitor for Paul Dejong”
They aren’t going to get much in return, just needs a change and his salary freed up. I think Washington could fit. They resigned Escobar, Kieboom hasn’t lived up to the hype. But DeJong could shift to 3B easily for them or possibly even 2B. Minnesota could be a fit too. Whoever he goes I think they need to send Justin Williams with him and get whatever they can, just move on from them, but I do wish DeJong well as I’ve always liked him he just doesn’t appear to fit going forward.
I want to see SD beat SF and LA beat MIL leading to a tie in the West and also WASH beat BOS, TB beat NYY, SEA beat LAA, TOR beat BALT and have all 4 teams at 91 wins tied for the 2 wild card spot. It would be chaos and also show how dumb the playoffs format is that 2 teams tied for the best record is all of baseball and they have to play a tie breaker game and the winner gets into the playoffs and the loser has to play a 1 game play in to get into the playoffs when every other team in all of baseball has a worse record than them, absolutely dumb format that doesn’t reward the long haul of a 162 game schedule at all.