So what are we going to do?

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  • #174818
    bccran
    Participant

    You don’t trash can a player who has only played one major league season and is just coming into his prime. As one poster said, Edman is your lead off man in 2022. Might as well get used to it and root for him.
    He won’t disappoint you.

    #174819
    forsch31
    Participant

    Free

    If your trash can reference is directed towards my posts, bc, maybe you should re-read them. I have NEVER said to trash can him. I just don’t think he should be hitting leadoff until he improves his OBP. I have kept him in the starting lineup for 2022 even though there are a few hitters, who are looking like special hitters, knocking on the door of the majors. If the Cardinals have a good season next year and Edman is hitting leadoff, I hope his OBP comes up. If it doesn’t, the season will be despite him leading off, not because of it.

    Despite my beliefs on what should be done, Schildt has the final say so it probably will be Edman hitting leadoff. However, Schildt is also the person who kept bringing in Reyes to close out games after the all-star break. He also brought Reyes into the Wild Card game. He kept starting DeJong at SS even though he was hitting less than .200 while Sosa was growing stale on the bench. He has flaws just like everyone.

    Also, you keep referring to Edman having only 1 major league season. Actually, he has almost 3 years of service. He made his debut on June 8, 2019 and has missed less than 5 games in the last 2 years. He has only about 200 less plate appearances in the majors than Harrison Bader and you had him pegged as worthless almost 2 years ago.

    I like to keep my mind open to what a player might be but I won’t close my eyes to what he has done. I have clearly kept open the possibility of Edman leading off but recognize that he needs to do better.

    #174821
    Cardinal in France
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    Free

    Good morning forsch. I’ve gone back over this thread reading you comments about Edman and why he should not be our leadoff hitter, but, unless I’ve overlooked it, I don’t see your views on who, among current players, SHOULD be out leadoff man and why he would be better than Edman.

    #174822
    Cards667
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    Free

    forsch31
    What’s your thoughts on Vina 2001-2003 or Womack leading off in 2004 (the best Cardinal offensive team I remember)? They never had great OBP or OPS, but they put the ball in play, worked counts, stole bases. I liked both those guys and they hit leadoff for some of the best Cardinals offenses and winning teams. I like Edman more than either of them too and think he has more potential too.
    Also, you talk of Schildt sticking with DeJong. LaRussa used to sticking the veteran too and make the young guy prove himself, it’s frustrating sometimes but makes the player better. Skip Schumaker couldn’t get a chance for a long time, once he proved himself to Tony though he was definitely one of his guys. There’s still a lot of questions about if Sosa can handle more or be exposed. Remember there was talk in spring training about what to do with Sosa because he was out of options and the possibility of DFA was there. Now, Reyes. I agree with his control he was being run out there in way too many crucial situations, including the WC game which I was screaming when he didn’t just stick with Gallegos.

    #174824
    bccran
    Participant

    667 has some excellent points, Forsch. And I’ll make my statement about his 2021 season one more time. This was Edman’s first full season as a major league ballplayer.
    I’ll stand by that comment…

    2019 – 92 games
    2020 – 55 games
    2021 – 159 games

    #174826
    ZTR
    Participant

    Free

    Well, he did play the full 2020 – the ‘season’ was only 60 games but that is all anyone got.

    If in fact his plate discipline continues to improve then he may be just fine.

    Even if Edman is moved out of leadoff next season doesn’t mean he can’t be moved back later.

    If the Cards had kept Wong as they should have, would Edman have spelled both him and DeJong and then taken over SS from DeJong – leaving Sosa out of the equation for 2021?

    #174827
    bccran
    Participant

    In 1985, the Cards lost the WS in 7 games. They actually won it in game 6, but for a horrible call at 1B. The leadoff man that year had an OBP of only .320. Was he a bad leadoff man?

    #174828
    ZTR
    Participant

    Free

    Vince Coleman was a true rookie in ’85 and I don’t have it on front of me but it seems he got better as the season wore on. He and Willie each stole over 100 bases too didn’t they?

    #174832
    bccran
    Participant

    Coleman stole 110. Willie stole 56.
    So by the super wonks today, would Coleman have been a poor leadoff hitter? Lol.

    #174833
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I know everyone seems to be eager to give Corey Seager $200M but am I the only person concerned that he rarely plays a full season? Yes, he is a good player but he can’t help you sitting on the IL.

    I would keep our current middle IF arrangement and spend on another starter and maybe another bat for DH.

    #174834
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Cardinals (8)

    Alex Reyes – $3.3MM
    Harrison Bader – $3.7MM
    Justin Miller – $900K
    Jack Flaherty – $5.1MM
    Jordan Hicks – $1.0MM
    Giovanny Gallegos – $2.8MM
    Dakota Hudson – $1.7MM
    Tyler O’Neill – $3.5MM

    #174840
    GameCard
    Participant

    Free

    “Even if Edman is moved out of leadoff next season doesn’t mean he can’t be moved back later.”

    If the Cards had kept Wong as they should have, would Edman have spelled both him and DeJong and then taken over SS from DeJong – leaving Sosa out of the equation for 2021?

    Edman should continue to be the lead-off hitter and start every game at 2B. I like Edman better than Wong.

    #174842
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I know everyone seems to be eager to give Corey Seager $200M but am I the only person concerned that he rarely plays a full season? Yes, he is a good player but he can’t help you sitting on the IL.

    I’m not all that worried. There’s no such thing as a player with no injury risk. Seager is the highest impact player on the market and some of his injuries have been freak in nature. I think he’ll be durable enough to earn his salary if it ends up where I think it’ll be (upper $20M AAV).

    #174843
    thejager
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Step 1: Waino and Yadi are signed on
    Step 2: Lester signed (promise of rotation spot as internally they know they’ll have Reyes to start in AAA)
    Step 3: Bring back any players who need to be brought back that earned it: Garcia, McF, LeBlanc (minors)
    Step 4: arbs for everyone but Justin Miller, Gallegos, Bader
    Step 5: Extend Bader and Gallegos
    Step 6: wait for CBA, expect DH to be in
    Step 7: bring in a FA SS, Seager or Story (Seager top choice, Story because Arenado could help)
    Step 7: announce open audition for DH spot in Spring Training
    Step 9: then start shopping DeJong
    Step 10: Trade Dejong (and other parts if necessary) to Minnesota for Rogers
    Step 11: sign Pujols (LH pitcher starting DH and pinch hitting against LH)
    Step 12: JRondon, and hopefully JMiller on minor league deal with ST invite

    Jack, Mik, Hud, Waino, Lester
    Rogers, Gallegos, Genesis, McF, Garcia, Hicks, Helsley, Whitely
    Edman, Goldy, Story, Arenado, ONeill, Carlson, Yepez, Yadi, Bader
    Knizner, Noot, Sosa, Pujols

    Reyes, Woodford, LeBlanc first up for depth
    Oviedo, Libertore, Thompson, Rondon all in play for pitching depth
    Sanchez, Rondon, Perez, Plummer, Gorman, Burleson all in play for positional help

    One big move (like most offseasons), this year a FA splash
    A bunch of small moves
    Extensions and arbs for team guys

    Seems do-able

    I do wonder about another offseason big trade…but the SS options for a trade seem limited unless we want to try to buy low on Adalberto Mondesi from KC and really amp up the running game and defense even more, if we could go that route then I think Max Scherzer would be in play instead of Lester leading to Reyes

    #174844
    bccran
    Participant

    1.) The Cardinals aren’t going to spend big money this off season on a middle infielder.

    2.) Signing Pujols would be a disaster.

    #174846
    1982 willie
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Lots of good ideas. I don’t think pujols would be a disaster if we have the dh and is at right price. I don’t see them getting into the shortstop bidding wars. If sosa hadn’t really perked maybe but even them I think they just move edman there which they still could. I’d like to see more money spent on better pitching especially bullpen but I wouldn’t mind a starter but only if fits our defense. More likely is that since we made that big run and made playoffs if you want to call wildcard game that, we probably most likely rest on our laurels.

    #174847
    bccran
    Participant

    The Cardinals fans remember a different Albert. There would be nothing but disappointment all around. It wouldn’t be a good situation for Albert. He needs to stay where he is in the memory of Cardinals fans.

    #174849
    Ratsbuddy
    Participant

    Free

    I agree. Do NOT sign Pujols.

    Not sure what the answer is here. Remember, in 2019 a similar squad won 91 games. Then last year, in the shortened season, barely finished above .500 at 30-28. And then this year they floundered around .500 most of the season until they hit a historic hot streak. Something tells me that what we have right now isn’t quite going to get the job done.

    So, what’s the answer? Seems like the following:
    1) Pitching staff stays healthy.
    2) Need another bat. And the main area that is open to improvement right now is at shortstop. We are losing a lot of $$$ off the books in Carpenter, Miller, Fowler, and hopefully Carlos Martinez. I fail to see why we couldnt make a good offer to Seager, Correa, Story, etc.

    r/Esteemed Rat

    #174850
    bicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    With decent health this club will be good – right around the 90 win mark that last year’s team accomplished. Could be some downside production from the over-30 crowd, particularly Waino. But then with him, you just don’t know. He seems to defy the time clock.

    And there should be major improvements in production from Jack and Dak, and possibly Mikolas. Reyes with control could be real good. Hicks, well who knows with him. He needs to learn to pitch and not just throw, both for his health and his production.

    Offense should see the younger guys mostly better – Edman, O’Neill, Bader, Sosa. All of those guys could be at least as good, and maybe much better than 2021. O’Neill in particular is right at the age where players tend to peak. He might threaten the non-roid Cardinal home run record and get close to 50.

    I just do not see the need to go too crazy this off season. More of a tweaking of the roster if the opportunity is there – mainly in the pitching area and bench strength. Like perhaps a Brad Miller type that can give you a good lefty bat off the bench. Maybe Noot is that guy but too early to tell.

    #174851
    Cards667
    Participant

    Free

    jager,
    A lot there. I don’t have any want of Pujols back. LeBlanc won’t be back and I agree on the non-tender of Justin Miller. I think all the pending free agents need to go and look for upgrades. I like the idea of trading for Rogers, but I question DeJong’s fit a bit there and what else it would take to make it happen. The money going each place would be pretty close though. If they were able to pull it off I think McFarland wouldn’t be back for sure, but I wouldn’t mind McFarland back if they aren’t able “upgrade”. If Danny Duffy is healthy he’s a LH I think could be really good and stay off the IL working in the pen.
    I liked what Rondon provided in his limited role and the defensive versatility is nice. But I question if he’d come back on a minor league deal. He played well enough a “rebuilding” team or even a small market team could give him a guaranteed deal. I think a team like Oakland, who has a lot of free agents and always cash strapped, could guarantee him a deal for his versatility.

    #174852
    Card4Ever
    Participant

    Free

    Marcus Semien and Marcus Stroman. 5 years each around 225-240 total between the 2?

    #174853
    Cards667
    Participant

    Free

    That’s expecting a lot out of O’Neill. I wouldn’t be surprised by a bit of regression in his numbers if he doesn’t improve the K%. Carlson is the one I think could make the biggest jump in production.

    #174855
    PugsleyAddams
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I think “Lucky” LeBlanc & McFarland are pretty much mortal locks to be returning to the Redbird fold. The Cards will not forget all that “Lucky” brought to the table in helping kick-start this ball club. Just imagine Card4Ever’s Marcus Semien hopping onboard. Even deGrom would be hesitant in grabbing the rosin at the thought of facing us …..oops, looks like Jon Gruden just got the ax.

    #174857
    858booyah
    Participant

    Free

    I don’t think Edman is the solution at lead off either but he hits a lot of gappers and he’s got a pretty good war. I think he can improve his obp numbers slightly.

    I’m thinking they’ll not do much. The bullpen must be addressed. Back end starter and a lefty bat off the bench who can play a few positions and DH At least they may do that. Which would be about 3 or 4 FA signings.

    They do need an impact bat and minf would be the place they could do it but I don’t think they’ll get into a bidding war. Plus I think they like some of what they have and have a couple guys who could DH next year in house.

    #174858
    Cardinal in France
    Participant

    Free

    No to Pujols. He showed his disdain for the Cardinals years ago and I see no need to reward a 41-year-old ex-slugger in his declining years.

Viewing 25 posts - 51 through 75 (of 548 total)
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