Shildt Fired

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  • #175079
    blingboy
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    It will have to be someone who buys into whatever Mo is doing 100% and won’t want to pick his coaching staff.

    #175081
    Brian Walton
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    The ESPN article does not speculate why. The focus is that the Cardinals needed to explain.

    #175082
    gscottar
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    I couldn’t read the paywalled ESPN article but in the video blurb the guy thinks the philosophical difference was bringing Reyes to do what Reyes had been doing, blow the game.

    I have a hard time believing he was actually fired because of bringing Reyes into that game. The dude just led us to 17 straight wins to even get into that position. The whole thing is bizarre.

    A more likely scenario is that there were disagreements over future payrolls and hitting coaches.

    #175083
    bccran
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    I’ve been with Mike Shildt when he spoke at a small luncheon downtown, and also observed him on the locker room video and
    when he blew his top recently on the field and got tossed. He was Casper Milquetoast at the luncheon. He’s a mild mannered guy until he loses his temper. I can imagine him getting riled up in meetings with Mo when the discussion isn’t going his way on an issue or two. Maybe he really lost it in a recent meeting and Mo felt that enough was enough. He was tired of insubordination. It could have been over a coach (Albert), how and when to use sabermetrics when your intuition tells you something different, etc. Who knows. But the personal chemistry between the two turned very sour.

    #175093
    BlackHillsCard
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    I can’t be the only one who finds this whole thing weird. The Cardinals FO had to get permission from MLB just to fire Shildt during the postseason because they said it couldn’t wait and then hastily schedules a press conference with only a 10-15 minute lead. Shildt had spent 18 or so years in the Cardinals organization and gets fired that’s apparently was a shock to him (and everyone else). Mo says this wasn’t something that built over time and it was brought to his attention within the past few days. None of this adds up to me.

    #175094
    Michael Greenwald
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    This makes sense.

    #175095
    UConn Card
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    Sounds like the organization wants to get ahead of something. Who knows what.

    #175096
    GameCard
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    It does not add up to me either. Mike Shildt was an effective manager and to fire him for”philosophical differences is too vague for me. It doesn’t give me much confidence in Management.

    #175097
    Ratsbuddy
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    Does the owner have to approve the firing of a manager? In other words, did Mozeliak have to get DeWitt’s approval first?

    Or does the VPOBO/GM have that kind of authority?

    #175098
    Brian Walton
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    #175099
    Nigel T
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    I’m hearing they’re looking soooo forward thinking that Bob Reed is the leading candidate with Pugs as his bench coach. You could do much worse.

    #175100
    Ratsbuddy
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    Yes it was very illuminating.

    Surely they wont hire Marmol as their manager. He’d be one of the last choices. I’ll say it again, I dont think our new manager is going to be a popular selection for alot of people.

    r/Esteemed Rat

    #175101
    Cards667
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    Beltran? Melvin?

    #175102
    SoonerinNC
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    Shildt had a better record after he was hired than Francona who many lust after.

    The Cardinals had a dramatic improvement after he was hired in defense, and base running.

    I find it hard to believe that the team suddenly grabbed the Albert approach after 3 years of frustrating offense. Those players are apparently very stubborn. All I have seen in Albert’s tenure is taking fat first strike pitches, lunging and overswining at marginal pitches with two strikes, and countless swings at WOZ’s (Way out of Zone), often on 3-2 counts.

    How can we believe that we have the capacity to win with what we have in the system. Terrible minor league year with a few hitting prospects thriving but abysmal pitching.

    Latin program unproductive. Recent top 100 prospects by Baseball America and MLB Pipeline had 26 and 22 Latin players in their top 100 lists. No Cardinals in either group. So where is the internal help going to come from. A few hitters but little else.

    I liked Shildt. Found that I disagreed with some of his moves but he was right a lot more than I was. Fans always second guess managers and have a very good record after the fact. If he had used Hudson or Flaherty rather than Reyes and they had given up the dinger Shildt would still have recieved the grief. If you don’t believe that then you don’t remember the grief Matheny got for going with Wacha in the exact same situation. I probably would have gone with Hudson because of his ground ball rate but he and Flaherty were clearly were not quite up to form both in velocity and command because of their limited use.

    I am looking forward to the next manager not because I am happy Shildt is gone but as long as management insists on an unproductive International program, fat contracts for players past their prime, a questionable hitting coach and apparent pressure and second guessing from the top, I don’t have a lot of hope for more success. But I am always for whoever the Cardinals put on the field.

    #175103
    PugsleyAddams
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    I’m hearing they’re looking sooo forward thinking that Bob Reed is the leading candidate with Pugs as his bench coach. You could do much worse.

    You certainly could do a lot worse, Nigel. I would gladly take any position on Team Bob Reed, as Bobby would be one of the great ones. We won’t name names for fear of leaving some quality individuals off the list, but we have a few posters right here at The Cardinal Nation who could very capably steer this team in the direction that it needs to veer.

    #175105
    oldcardsfan
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    Shildt doesn’t have that much of a resume and was not at his best in the biggest games. (Reyes in the 9th). I’m surprised though after the winning streak and making the playoffs hopefully this will not come back to bite the Cardinals.

    #175107
    Ohio Cardinal
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    “…we have a few posters right here at The Cardinal Nation who could very capably steer this team in the direction that it needs to veer.”

    LOL!

    SoonerinNC captures my thoughts on this.

    #175109
    blingboy
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    Sounds like the organization wants to get ahead of something. Who knows what.

    Of all the comments and commentary here and elsewhere, this one by Uconn is the only that would explain the need for the precipitous timing. Apparently, it couldn’t even wait for a lull in post-season action, and neither Mo nor BDW are the knee jerk reaction types. That aspect of it should not be overlooked.

    #175112
    BlackHillsCard
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    After a few days of thinking on this I’ve come to the conclusion that Shildt wasn’t the kind of ‘yes man’ Mo wanted. Shildt and Albert appear to have had a falling out and Shildt and his 18 years were sacrificed. What led me here was also seeing the news that Chris Carpenter wasn’t offered his special assisfant role back witb the team is joining the Angels.

    #175113
    blingboy
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    I hear you Black. There seems to have been a thorough purge of those favoring a currently out of favor approach to the game. Hopefully they don’t start tearing down statues outside Busch.

    #175114
    1982 willie
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    Well I read the piece that Brian wrote about. That seems about right on. I agree with a lot of the conclusions far as the firing of shildt though I don’t agree with opinions on some of the other stuff. It mentions a lot about how successful this team has been percentage wise since mo and Dewitt came along. You can say numbers don’t lie but they can be deceptive. The teams that made the world series after pujols left keep being mentioned as successes but I argue those teams were largely there because of our success before including a lot of player composition. My view on this team deals more with what has happened since 2014 so I take out all that other stuff. It seems our minors has deteriorated. We no longer have a great pipeline of young talent to fortify things. Sure we have made the playoffs some but have we ever really consistently looked like a team that could win it all. I’m not a big fan of the analytical approach and having these analytical departments basically deciding strategy and player development. The thing is analytics are the same and all teams have these things so you gain nothing in the end. When it was just the few teams like the A’s that had them it might have been something but didn’t net them any championships or even pennants so there you go. The article talked about how the players belief in Albert propelled them to a 17 game winning streak. I find that really amusing. I guess they didn’t believe in him in the wildcard game if you go by that stuff. While it was fun, in hindsight I’m thinking that 17 game streak was the worst thing that could happen. It just gave false hope where as if we had missed the playoffs, there might be a higher reckoning. I find it also interesting when talking about the front office Management and the team winning that it was a player from another era that really stepped up and made the end of the season push possible, adam wainwright. I’ll end my rant with that.

    #175119
    blingboy
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    willie I agree a lot of success was due to momentum within the system. There is no question the pipeline is the desiccated remains of what it once was. Neither Mo nor his boss are blind, so obviously they think whatever they are doing will work. Meanwhile, its been a while since a new flag appeared above Busch.

    #175121
    stlcard25
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    willie I agree a lot of success was due to momentum within the system. There is no question the pipeline is the desiccated remains of what it once was. Neither Mo nor his boss are blind, so obviously they think whatever they are doing will work. Meanwhile, its been a while since a new flag appeared above Busch.

    I would argue that the depth of the system, particularly in the realm of pitching, is dried up…but the system has not had so many potential stars in a while. Especially on the position player end.

    Where the Cards once made their hay was on the ability to call up wave after wave of average or above regulars for both the staff and the positions. While that gave the team a good floor, the system hasn’t turned out a long term (meaning 3+ All Star level years) star position player (for our team) since Matt Carpenter, who arrived in 2011. Before that it was…Yadi? Mo and company recognize that you need some star power to win in today’s game so they traded from depth to acquire Ozuna, Goldy and Arenado and prioritized potential over solid results in the draft. That brings us to where we are now.

    #175122
    ZTR
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    The DannyMac article was a very good read and he clearly has his finger on the pulse of the organization.

    I was never a fan of the Schildt hire but it is a shame that in a case like this a reassignment within the organization could not be worked out. I know that never happens but still – he was a Cardinal man.

    I guess I did not realize DeWitt was such an Al Davis type of leader behind the scenes. Sounds like he’d pull a Ted Turner if that were allowed.

    I don’t know what is going to happen or who they will hire to manage the club but I do know that things tend to go better if everyone is on the same page. Internal friction bubbling just beneath the surface almost always leads to failure.

    #175123
    bccran
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    I don’t agree that the pitching in the minors has dried up. Just a donut hole between Memphis and the lower minors.

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