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Chris Carpenter has taken a job with the Angels. What capacity I have no idea.
Apparently he wasn’t asked to come back in his special assistant role by the Cardinals.
Seeing alot of speculation on the Schildt firing. So many times Rats saying “Whats Schildt trying to do get himself fired? Looks like he finally did. Three rules of working for other people.
1- Everybody in the boat has to be rowing in the same direction
2- Never forget you ulimately work for whoever signs your pay check
3- Sh_t flows downhill- live with it or hit the road (my way or the highway)Could have been over the control of coaches. I think the ownership said they want all of the coaches to stay. Maybe Shildt didn’t want that and felt he could push the matter.
No good boss, including Mo and BDW I am sure, wants to stifle discussion and debate. But the employee has to recognize when the decision has been made. Then one’s job becomes getting on board with the decision made and working to make it a success. Perhaps Shildt didn’t know when the debate was over.
Maybe the Angels reached out to Chris Carpenter with a better job description than what the Cardinals had in mind for him, and more money than the Cardinals had on the table.
Also, if Carpenter has has aspirations to manage one, this adds to has resume.
If news reports are true, they had to ask MLB’s permission to have a news conference to fire him during the playoffs. Also, they fired him over the phone. Seems to me this is something bigger than Shildt wanting Albert gone.
I agree that the precipitous time frame doesn’t really jibe with ‘philosophical differences’.
On another note, I don’t see why Schumaker is considered a possibility. He has not been with the Cardinals organization for 10 years and came in during the Jockety era.
There must have been a huge disagreement between Mike and Mo on something which led to volatility. It may never come out.
I agree cranny. I am thinking along the lines of Shildt wanting Mo and BDW to bring in help this winter to put a better, deeper and more proven team on the field next year vs working the system with what pops out of the system and doing in-season backfill as things develop, like this past season.
The bosses could be thinking that while the 2020 interruption jammed things up, the system will supply adequate talent and depth, and enable the org to avoid the risk of high dollar contracts that go bust.
Shildt may have thought that his good record would allow him to be more assertive and even intransigent than what the bosses are wanting. He may have ended up positioning himself as not fully buying into what Albert was brought in to put in place. But that scenario does not explain the need for such abrupt firing.
The abrupt firing makes sense in that having decided they weren’t extending him, better to get rid of him soon as possible. They then can move on to someone else and schildt would have a chance to move on.
I have been out of pocket most of the weekend and am just now reading the Bernie article that Brian linked. Things make more sense to me now. Apparently the Cardinals have decided to double down on analytics and Shildt wasn’t on board. That may be an oversimplification but seems to be the gist of it.
This also tells me that you shouldn’t expect to see a big mega contract free agent signing this winter, which I agree with actually.
“On another note, I don’t see why Schumaker is considered a possibility. He has not been with the Cardinals organization for 10 years and came in during the Jockety era.”
He was drafted and developed by the organization and played the majority of his career in it though and knows it well. And more so, he has been coaching on a very analytical team in San Diego and buys into the analytical coaching. I think he’s probably the leading candidate. Clapp has more of a Schildt like coaching style. Marmol I don’t know, but sounds like a Mo guy and maybe that’s who Mo wants to puppeteer the dugout.
I think Schumaker is definitely a serious candidate, perhaps even the leading candidate if they don’t go with Clapp or Marmol.
I agree with this take completely.
If you pushed me, I would probably say that what changed was not Mike Shildt. I think he’s pretty much the same guy he’s been, the same guy the organization trained him to be.
I think that it’s the Cardinals’ organization that has changed. Mozeliak alluded to this in his Zoom press conference.
Over the last few seasons, the Cardinals organization has become less and less the disciples of George Kissel and more and more the admirers of the best parts of other orgs. Like the Rays. Certainly the Dodgers, though they’re in a different tax bracket. Houston, minus the trash cans. Maybe even teams like the Indians or Twins.
I’m not sure we’ll ever get a clear picture of why Shildt was fired but I do expect to get a clearer picture of the front office’s desired philosophy.
If it’s more Dodgers and Rays and Houston, I welcome it.
Don’t know how true but read, think it was sourced to Michael Kay, front office wanted Schildt to make assistant coaching changes going more analytical and Schildt stood by his guys enough it became him going with them. Guess we’ll see who stays around. Or maybe it was Schildt wanted Albert out and Mo was more married to Albert than Schildt.
The real question right now is whether Shildt will be straight forward, transparent, and specific tomorrow.
In thinking about the “philosophical differences”, with it sounding like much of that was a rift between Albert and Shildt, just what is the crux of that difference?
I mean, hitting is largely a matter of pitch selection, and being aware of what you are likely to see given a particular count and game situation.
So what would a philosophical difference on the approach to hitting look like? Does the non-analytical guy believe a more hands off approach is best, and you just go with your instincts, while the analytical guy says to look at all this data on what a particular pitcher throws, and where he locates, during various counts and situations?
I don’t think managers do all that much for a baseball team personally.
But the two things they do have an large part in were two things that I think Schildt was poor at – lineups (that kept including Carpenter) and bullpen management that kept going to Reyes when he was clearly lost.
And this is the first season of this with him.
Mike might have been asked/told to keep Carp in the lineup to work out the kinks and get at least something back for the $18.5 million investment.
I don’t think that bccran. If so they would have fired him sooner. This obviously doesn’t have anything to do with on the field stuff at least not directly
Then it has to be over Albert, analytics, or pushing too hard for big time improvements from outside the system.
Well I kind of agree. I think Albert plays a big part. But it’s also possible that schildt saw what I see. You have a team that could with a little luck far as injuries go could be really good next year but need a couple of major pieces to really contend for a world series. But the future after that doesn’t look so rosy at this point. So maybe schildt really wanted to go for it, not rely on faith and hope. But who knows.
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