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mud, I always try to trace the rumor back to its original source rather than repeating it as if it is fact.
Max plans on pitching in 2025. We can add another oldie but goodie to our rotation. Lol and maybe trade Matz for another bad contract or contracts. Doubt it happens but dare to dream.
Well, it looks like we aren’t going to be competing for a while folks. Said they werent focusing on putting together the best roster…yuck
I don’t know why Bloom needs 2 years of NOT being in control to finally do something, btu whatever
Probably see guys on the outs this summer
watching kids is fun, btu only so far….i dont think most of the fanbase has the stomach for the losing, and not TRYING to win that they are setting us up for.
Feels like the 90s after the 80’s success….and that took more than a decade to dig out of….ugh
Anyways, here are my initial thoughts:
GONE
– Contreras…he already spoke out that we werent hungry to win…well we arent…someone will take him, but we will get nothign more than a fringe prospect unless we eat money…and they want that money
– Gray….makes too much and wants to compete…contract isnt bad so a decent prospect or two
– Helsley…dont need a great closer if we arent trying to win…good prospect return, maybe two
– Arenado…came here to win…stayed here to win…we arent winning…fringe prospect at best if we want that money savings…and we do
– all the option guys are gone
– JoJo…has value and we arent winning…decent prospectTOSS UP
– Matz…could keep him hoping to sell at deadline if he can regain some value
– Mikolas… ditto
– Fedde…has value…could bring back prospects…but i think his value is higher at trade deadlineBRING BACK
– Carp feels like he will be back as ridiculous as it sounds, they will try to cash in on his “vet presence” and token re-signingFA ACQUIRE
– no one of consequence, 1 yr deal (maybe with option)
– 1 1yr deal swingman vet hoping to flip at deadline
– 1-3 1yr or STI RPs hoping to flip at deadline
– 2 journeymen hitters hoping for a castoff to contribute types…or flip at deadline (Amed Rosario)TRADE ACQUIRE
– harder to see, but most will be prospects
– i could maybe see a trade for a guy like Bobby Miller from LAD if they are giving up on himRotation: (start the year)
Fedde, Mikolas, Pallante, Matz, McGreevy
Rotation: (end of year)
Pallante, McGreevy, Matthews, Graceffo, HencePen:
CL- Libby
King, Fernandez, Loutos, OBrien, Ryocroft, FARP, FARPC- Ivan
1b- Burly
2b- Saggesse
SS- Winn (will get long term extension)
3B- Donny
LF- Noot
CF- Siani
RF- Jordan
DH- Gorman (yeah, i dont think they sell low unless it is a swap of a similar underperformer)bench: Pages, Victor, Baker, FA (OF/IF)
can’t say there isn’t upside…but the pitching will kill us
Thanks for the input jager. I have a couple of observations:
1. I think Contreras will be sought after and bring back some nice prospects.
2. I wouldn’t sign a veteran swingman if we already have Fedde. You probably won’t find a swingman any cheaper than Fedde.
3. I would have Gorman at 3B, Donovan at 2B, and Saggesse as the utility guy.
4. We need to add a couple of FA RH bats on cheap one year deals because we are too LH’d. Maybe my annual plea for Adam Duvall will happen.
G
I dont think you are wrong and i am exactly right…just initial thoughts reallyAs for your thoughts:
1. salary is still pretty high for Wilson and his recent injury problems, whether his fault or not are worrisome, plus we lost all leverage when we announced this move yesterday
2. I say you sign the swingman because it gives us the ability to make an opportunistic early season trade if need be without having to rush one of the kids (Hence, Quinn, Graceffo, Roby) before the deadline if need be. Plus, someone will get hurt from the rotation, it happens every year.
3. maybe, but Gorman hasnt really played 3b for a while, and we have seen Saggesse AND Donny there, but anything is possible and to be honest i think many of the positions are rotate-able
4. I agree on the FARP bench bats. Adam Duvall + Amed Rossario or Jose Iglesias, Kevin Newman? Though I forgot to add Carp to my above post for the bench and he serves as the platoon left hand bat.
To me, buy some flippable vets, and sell what you can at the deadline from whatever you cant deal now for solid returns.
We have enough kids bats to fill the lineup, just a few cheap bats to help bench. Then fill a rotation with guys who can get us to the deadline, where we can turn it over to the kids. And let them play.
I agree that should be the plan. Use a few vets on expiring deals to buy the kids some time then flip them at the deadline.
It’s not the most fun plan, but at least it is something
this next year is goign to be brutal for fans…attendance is goign to be really bad…and with the Bally upheaval i think the viewership will be down too….which will only lower the profits thus making them sell more to make their margins and hesitate to buy anything even after next year
5years is optimistic IMO
and I think most of the young players we have wont even be here for it…they will be flipped for more prospects and kick the can down the road
we are the new Pirates
Now…COULD the guys figure it out next year and we get some out of nowhere advances from some players…sure…they def have the pedigree…but without the management spending money to fill in the gaps we will just be stuck in an endless loop of developing talent only to sell it for more
We are not going to get anywhere until the system can produce impact players. Rotation mainstays and middle of the order power/RBI guys. BDW tried letting Mo buy them and it doesn’t work. He ends up saddled and hamstrung with contracts when guys don’t produce or can’t stay on the field. Whatever happens this winter, I think the system is not likely to be pumping out impact players within a couple years.
Good for you Game, my thoughts are mine…i dont really care if someone agrees or not, but definitely not someone who’s amazing commentary and rebuttal is the equivalent of “nuh uh”
this is an idea thread, it’s here for throwing out ideas….not for hating on people for doing so or thinking that those that post are writing an article that everyone should agree with
and please dont respond i wont respond to you on this so dont waste your time (but undoubtedly you will..so have fun)
Bling,
you are probably right…but unless we punt 5-10yrs to get high picks (or throw huge money to international kids…which we wont do for those true impact international signings) it’s not going to happenWe are not going to get anywhere until the system can produce impact players. Rotation mainstays and middle of the order power/RBI guys. BDW tried letting Mo buy them and it doesn’t work. He ends up saddled and hamstrung with contracts when guys don’t produce or can’t stay on the field. Whatever happens this winter, I think the system is not likely to be pumping out impact players within a couple years.
If you believe that the Cardinals system is less talented than others, then I suppose that’s true. We’ve traded enough good players away in Mo’s later tenure that I believe player development has to shoulder at least some of the blame. With better tools in place for minor leaguers, there’s hope that some impact could come sooner than expected. Perhaps even from the guys already at the big league level.
I could see Gibson‘s contract option being picked up and then flipped right away. He definitely has some value. It would almost have to be a sign and trade type of situation, however. But for some of the contracts decent starters are getting these days, I could definitely see that happening.
Lynn I don’t believe does.
I would pick up his option and flip him at the deadline. The return at the deadline probably wouldn’t be much worse than what we got for Flaherty in 2023.
My gut tells me Gray and Mikolas decline any trades this winter.
Matz we could buy down and flip this winter. Buying him down would be like paying his salary the first half, and if he repeats his 24′, he’s IL at the deadline, and Bill is on the hook for the entire 12.5mil. “Maximum flexibility” buys him down and ships him off this winter.
If Gray would accept a trade, close to home, ATL looks like a good fit. They had 59 GS in 24′ by Morton and Fried, who are entering free agency, and ATL is a top 5 to 10 budget. Morton drew 20mil last season, Fried 15mil.
It’s a crazy year for the Cards to be sitting out to save money. Since a big group of others are in the uncertainty boat as well, they really could be missing out on some deals. I’d say there are a good dozen plus pitchers who could have been serious upgrades if we weren’t going into the poor house.
Burnes
Snell
Fried
Sasaki
Flaherty
Manaea
Quintana
Kikuchi
Verlander
Scherzer
Eovaldi
Bieber
Buehler
Lorenzen
Severino
BoydThat doesn’t even take into account possible trades. The Cards were once a good bet to be in on players from low budget teams that they knew they wouldn’t sign long term. We may well be the team that will trade those guys away now.
Yep the next couple of winters are going to be different for Cardinal fans as we shop in the same aisles as the Rays, A’s and Pirates, although it has really been many years since we were aggressive on the big time players.
The Cardinals have never shopped at Saks Fifth Avenue. Usually we are found at Kohl’s. This winter we will be shopping at Goodwill.
Just curious on thoughts on a couple players. Values per Baseball Trade Values.
Ivan Herrera Value 26.1 – Can hit. Slooooowwww, 55 SB vs 4 CS, YIKES. Where does he play if he can’t vastly improve his arm?
Lars Nootbaar Value 49.1 – TO with less power. Will he ever stay healthy. If really worth that value, you have to consider trading him.
Found the following interesting Cards to Red Sox trade
Fedde Value 9.9
Gorman Value 10.9
Helsley Value 14.0
Romero Value 6.2
Overall 41.0Fitts P Value 2.9
Cespedes 19 SS/2b Value 8.9
Sandlin P Value 3.2
Arias 18 SS/2b Value 10.5
Montgomery OF Value 15 Yes, Braden Montgomery from Texas AM, 12th pick this year.
Overall 40.5Also, MLTR had their picks for free agents. Only three mentions. Sorry, Juan Soto not to the Cards in any universe.
Picks to sign (Please no on both)
David Robertson 40 yr old RP 1/11MM
Matthew Boyd 2/25MMPossible suitor for
Shinnosuke OgasawaraI cannot imagine that we sign a reliever and a starter for that kind of money when we just declined options on two similar players for about the same price.
Card4Ever, thanks for passing that trade proposal along. It reads as if someone is filling the BOS to-do list for 25′; SP, 2B, Closer, late inning lefty….
for
A young SP they’d like to upgrade, 2 shortstop depth pieces, arb reliever who took a step back, and to sell it, Montgomery is the prize.A counter proposal could be Fedde and Romero, for Montgomery, if you guys like him that well, otherwise pass.
Montgomery has way too much swing-and-miss for the Cardinals.
Depending on how much salary the Cardinals are trying to shed, they might line up with the Angels in a trade (Angels like starting pitchers on short-term deals and need a 2B and LF).
Among specific pitchers, White Sox left-hander Garrett Crochet, Brewers ace Freddy Peralta, D-backs right-hander Zac Gallen and Cardinals veteran right-hander Sonny Gray are possible trade options, according to Speier.
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