[thejager]

I wish I hadn’t watched him so much in CIN. Just looking at the stats I would agree on Iglesias, but I am bias as he seemed far more mercurial than his stats may show IMO.

Also, I am not certain i want to spend the money he will probably get on a closer when there are other needs.

Still, I’d see what he asks regardless

[thejager]

With the other SS out there….I think SS could still snag $200 but 300…nah…not with the quality of the others

Spotrac has his value around $25

I think an 8yr $25m/yr (200) sounds about right.

He is 28, 8yrs is probably 2yrs too much which is what he will want..25 might be a bit too high in the market for SS…(i feel 20 is better)…so 25 probably gets it done

Probably go in with 6yr 150m (25), gauge the price point and years…if they want more years…bring the yearly amount down, if they want more per year…see about keeping it at 6 or even 5 (using a 5yr deal to leverage that he could still get another contract at 33 if he believes in himself and his health and productivity so much to ask for more money in those extra years)

Have 8yrs and 200m be your “lines in the sand” but having Story and Correa and Semien out there to be “negotiating” with is a good thing for the Cardinals to have

Will be along winter though…with CBA obviously…but also… Story, Seager, Correa, Baez, Semien…either someone will set the market high or someone will set it too low…and the fear of setting it too low will drag this all the way to spring training or into it

If we are in this game…we should expect to be frustrated the whole winter…and token other signings like Waino, Kim, LeBlanc or Lester, or even Pujols will do nothign to ease our anxiety

And it won’t be any different for the FA SPs(if you think that is the direction we go)…gonna be a tough offseason to be a baseball fan…lots of nothing and frustration over CBA then Agent jockeying and rumors spreading…yuck

[thejager]

I am not sold on Sosa…and DeJong just isnt getting better…. Going with Sosa is similar to committing with DeJong after he had a good year in the minors and AFL and one solid year in MLB…

It’s too risky to gamble on the offense “figuring it out” for a 4th straight season. Or depending on kids to be the difference maker.

Stay aw ay from Baez…Semien seems too old…Correa will be too expensive…Story outside of Coors and all the K’s????….Seager (with his somewhat troubling injury past) seems to be the sweetspot

Having said that…I could also see the Cards “settling” (which means being cheap) for an aging
Chris Taylor and giving the excuse/justification that they havent given up on DeJong and like Sosa…so bringing in a multi positional guy like Taylor makes the most sense…

And i like Chris Taylor…but i liked him 2years ago… this would scream of several similar types of signings of guys who would be better targets a few years before…. Andrew Miller, Mark Ellis, Fowler, even Goldschmidt and Arenado to some degree (more Goldy than Nolan though)

With the announcement that Reyes not close the rest of they ear and do multi inning work and will pretty much be looking at an offseason that preps him for a starting spot next year…i don’t really see how we target a starter without a major trade form the rotation…Waino will get signed

-Jack, Mik, Waino…locks…Mikolas has no value in a trade at his price point…Jack and Waino are obv.
-Hudson….seems a lock with his recovery where it is and potential to be playing a few innings with the big club even this year
-Reyes…seems destined..and with Libertore already with a full year of AAA and Thompson, Woodford, Oviedo, Rondon, Ponce…i don’t see this spot being open for a veteran FA signing

I think you look hard at bringing back Kim…for the right price…Lester and Happ may be pitching their ways into better contracts (or at least better playing time)…LeBlanc seemed an option before his injury…and to be honest…perhaps BECAUSE of his injury he is worth a look again as his value will be depressed

Now factor in the DH, it is the perfect time to add a real hitter…even if it WAS with still going with Sosa and DeJong…

To me, we have one big contract to hand out and it should be to a SS

re-sign:
-Waino 1yr
-Yadi 1yr
-Kim 2yr (protects SP and pen)
-LeBlanc 1yr (minor league with ST invite perhaps)
-McFarland (unsure on status of FA)
-Garcia (unsure on status of FA)

FA sign:
-Seager (starting SS)
-Pujols (LHP DH and LHP pinch hit)

of note:
-Yepez/Gorman/Baker all fight for bench/RHP DH spot
-DeJong takes Carp bench spot (gets time in OF and 1b during ST)
-Sosa is challenged by Perez and both get some time in OF in ST

StL 2022:
-Edman, Goldy, Seager, Arenado, Oneill, Carlson, Pujols/Yepez (DH), Yadi, Bader
–Knizner, DeJOng, Sosa, Nootbaar
-Jack, Mik, Hud, Waino, Reyes…..Libertore
–Gallegos, Hicks, Genesis, Garcia, McFarland, Kim, Helsley/Whitley, Woodford/Ponce

Looks pretty solid to me:
-rotation is better than we think with Hud returning and upside of Reyes or Libertore
-rotation protected with Libertore, Kim, Ponce, Wood, Thompson, Oviedo, Rondon, LeBlanc
-lineup can go LRLRLR a lot
-lineup is extremely strong in the field
-lineup has power
-bullpen is pretty deep and has the arms for injuries
-bullpen has long men to help with short starts or return from injury or innings limits or age
-bullpen has plenty off lefties who can get righties out
-closer role options
-DH spot options allow for Gorman to be brought up slowly instead of depended on
-bench has some flex and upside, each player other than part time Pujols has ability to start regularly if needed

concerns:
-no absolute closer (but options)
-rotation is questionable with 3-4 iffy parts… (but one top flight FA starter doesnt change that concern)
-lineup is balanced…but leans a bit old
-bench OF is thin…but Edman’s flex and hopefully some offseason work should help that some

Is it a surefire WORLD SERIES favorite…no

BUT

A pretty good team built pretty well for a last go around for Waino, Yadi and Pujols…that will sell tickets…compete for central at minimum…and is still set up well for life after those three (Waino= Libertore, Kniz/Herrera=Yadi, Pujols=Gorman)

Going cheap on SS is a big mistake…Seager to me makes the most sense…and Baez won’t happen…but Semien, Story, Seager, or Correa all should be the primary focus of the offseason

[thejager]

Similar to Ponce and Gomber really… not much love but kept pushing and providing results that people coudln’t deny

MLB pitcher no doubt….the “fringy 5 starter” or “long man” or “piggy backer” or “opener” or whatever it is being called is becoming an ever-increasing and important role in baseball.

Woodford has talent and his willingness to embrace what roles he is given and the yoyo-ing potentially inherent can make him not just an MLB pitcher but perhaps even an important and valuable one

[thejager]

Dude still can hit lefties. And what is so bad about that as a bench piece? In a DH world especially?
Him combined with Gorman make a pretty nice 1-2 left hand right punch from the bench.

And the value on his mentorship is not something that can be quantified but you’d better believe it would be huge.

He won’t be expensive he, seems to be fine with his role with the Dodgers so i can’t imagine he wouldnt’t do it for StL.

He has some big incentive to hit well chasing 700 and all. He will sell some more tickets.

I just don’t see why it’s kids OR Albert.

With a full time DH there is plenty of ABs to go around and platoon, even with a Seager or big SS addition. Probably means moving DeJong or Sosa but that’s ok. DeJong as a bench player might be a better role now and let him play around the field more. And with his and Edman’s versatility everything is covered for depth.

DH-Pujols/Gorman
bench-Pujols/Gorman, Knizner, DeJong/Sosa, Nootbaar
(or you could go with 8 relievers and have a 5 man bench)

I like loading up with swing starters going more innings putting less stress on 1 inning guys….LeBlanc, Ponce, Kim….with Hicks, Genesis, Gallegos, Garcia, Helsley/McFarland…not bad and gives us more punch for the bench

Pujols can still play the occasional day at 1b…and while he can’t run, so what, a hit against a big lefty or his prowess against lefties being able to get the other team to change pitchers is a fine weapon to have

Let’s also not forget that StL seems to bring out the best in Pujols…whether understandable and anecdotal or not…when he came for the first time after the trade he absolutely raked…despite not being very good on the season… he knows the park and the backdrop so well..

with him Waino and Yadi we’d get an upgrade to the coaching as well

[thejager]

25 “inner Jager” eh? Definitely good impression! Well done!

I actually like your propositions…pretty close to my thoughts, though i am a fan of a DH to bring in instead of depending on BOTH Gorman and Yepez. Also Ray is a solid choice

And i like Pujols for this. He will be cheap, he still hits lefties. And just the ability for Gorman and the others to be around him and learn is worth his diminished defense. He has already proved he will play off the bench with LAD, and that is the role we hope he will be by the end of the year as I would hope Gorman or Yepez or Baker could be ready.

If not going for Pujols, I want a true starting caliber hitting OFer. My choice, is (for another year) Mitch Haniger. solid, a bit too old to demand huge huge money if we extended (would be in the last year of his contract i believe). I like Nootbaar, but i am not heading into next year with hopes and dreams to fix the offense as we have done the last couple years. Haniger is far more solid.

-Seager
-Ray
-Waino
-Yadi
-Kim
-Pujols signing or Haniger trade (lets say Haniger as the cost would be in prospects, not money so that is probably the big thing for the FO if we are looking at Ray and Seager and Kim and Waino and Yadi)

I’m still not exactly sure how we fit Ray into the rotation when Reyes to the rotation seems a given, but i like not having to put him there OR Libertore. Waino retiring next year seems a given so a spot opening for 23 makes for a natural transition

Edman
Seager
Goldy
Arenado
Oneill
Haniger (DH…but rotate it)
Carlson
Yadi
Bader
-Knizner, Nootbaar, Sosa, Gorman/Yepez
Jack, Ray, Hud, Mik, Waino…Libertore
Gallegos, Reyes, Genesis, Hicks, McFarland, Garcia, Ponce, Kim

[thejager]

they said there were like 75 fans at this game..it was really empty

even with the heat and any other excuses that is extremely bad

i feel they keep; trying to excuse their way out of the low attendance using COVID to cover the poor product on the field

COVID matters…heat matters…school back in matters…poor product even matters…

but 75 fans…and the team is 3.5 out of a playoff spot?

Changes better come….major changes

[thejager]

my bad…i thought he had 2yrs of ARB left

Lowers the asking price a bit i’d imagine…but not much given his impact.

I am confident that the Cards could re-sign him and that he would want that.

People are talking about looking at the big SS market in the offseason anyways.

Maybe… Edman, Walker, Thompson, Knizner, Hence?
(baseball trade simulator puts that pretty close)

DeJong slides to 2b

Turner, Carlson, Goldy, Arenado, Oneill, DeJong, Yadi, Bader

then, put Gorman in with the DH next year

Turner will be relatively cheap next year so you can pay for Waino, Yadi, Kim…and extend Jack…then re-sign Turner during the offseason in a deal that kicks in after the year is over or ramps up at least after next year. Maybe then you can bring in a big Starter (maybe even Max which i am sure Trea would like and might even help in getting Max to come)

With the production you would get from Trea we could accept a bit less from DeJong and one of the OFers…letting Bader be just defensive is fine as long as we get production elsewhere, same for DeJong even.

Max, Jack, Waino, Mik….Kim, Hudson, Reyes, Libertore, Oviedo

I dunno… it would be expensive in prospects now and expensive later to re-sign… but Turner plus Max (if im playing this game) gives us a very good window next year and still strong youth…

and with the window that provides…it also allows for the farm to recover

[thejager]

It’s hard not to try to come up with Trea Turner trades right now.

As much as i like Gorman and Libertore and Walker…. Trea Turner is a beast…true 5 tool

I know DeJong has been a bit better recently and Bader is bossing, but Turner in our lineup makes me feel a lot better about depending on the return of Mikolas nd Jack somehow making this season work.

I know we all have seemingly slotted Gorman into the DH role (or some variation of somehow being in the starting lineup) but maybe this gives him more time..or allows Edman to be more super utility in his starts?

Still..it is all moot if you can’t actually acquire Turner without moving Gorman

Would a deal like:

Thompson, Walker, Knizner, Hence work? OR is there a deal where DeJong is included? OR maybe even Edman? Maybe something that lets us keep Walker, Lib, Gorman, Herrera??

I like Walker a lot, but he seems farther off…if not THAT much farther off…

I guess…even if we moved Gorman in a deal for him…or whomever…. Would they EVER be what Turner is? Do we really think Gorman or Walker are future MVP candidates? OR are they really promising CHEAP players that we HOPE would be good?

Turner is good RIGHT now (and we are in a RIGHT NOW window with Arenado and Goldy), he is not old, and he can plug in at the top of a lineup or right in the middle. And plays top SS defense, and he is controlled for 2 more years.

Turner is a difference maker, and is available. He isnt a rental. Gorman and Libertore and Walker are not guarantees.

[thejager]

I agree with GScott… 12yr deal favorable terms… MAYBE a mutual option for 2nd year

But really…he has pitched well enough I think that someone will give him 2-3yrs

he is a lefty after all and a starter and despite his slight injuries been able to come back each time

[thejager]

yeah…that was long…im sorry…i dont get to talk Cardinals much

[thejager]

As I have said a lot, not that anyone should care, but to me the decision to buy now or not is not limited to the reclamation only of this season.

In the offseason the team will have a lot to do, even if they played well thee rest of the year. There are a lot of guys on the way out (with only a few being locks to return) and this does not even consider Arenado leaving.

Looking for solutions right now that help try to salvage this year can also be things that will be needed in the offseason anyways, and i don’t really trust Free Agency to be the solution for much if any of those needs.

Lok to solutions that a re control for at least next year, do not consider any rentals, save the “cash considerations” types.

Going out:
Cmart-SP
Kim-SP
Waino-SP (return likely)
TMiller-LHRP back end
LeBlanc-swing SP
Yadi-C (return likely)
Carp- LH power from bench and Util IF 2b/3b

Also we should consider that the DH is going to happen, in all likelihood next year.

So in all liklihood we need:
3 SP
2 RP one back end Lefty
1 starting Catcher
1 power hitting LH hitter
1 DH

SP:
Waino
Hudson
Reyes/Libertore/Oviedo /FA

This makes sense, but again puts us in a situation where we are very susceptible to injuries or age Mikolas and Jack will have to be healthy or we will be right back where we are today. Waino is no guarantee for perfromance, Hudson returnign from injury is no guarantee, nor is Reyes and Libertore being ready for the rotation

—so you need at least one outside acquisition of quality

RP:
Ponce/Woodford/Oviedo
Genesis as back end LHRP, but we would need lower leverage LHRP then…Leblanc?

I think this works itself out internally, but I could see going for a no name to fill it as well

—no acquisition absolutely necessary

C:
Yadi

If Yadi wants to play he plays and we play him, if not.. Knizner starts and we use a journeyman or kid for backup as we inch closer to Herrera

—- no acquisition necessary

Bench LH power spot starter:
Williams/Nootbaar/Thomas…..Gorman

Williams, Thomas and Nootbaar seem fine AAAA guys for depth but not really impact. IF we do go the Gorman route here it seems a bit too fast for a kid to be thrust in that role. I say let Gorman’s bat push his promotion not our necessity. Thus with a good looking option coming an outside guy seems a good fit, but probably 1 or 2yr contract. As the OF seems the biggest hole in the offense (IMO) and Gorman is coming either the DH or this spot should be filled with an OF and Left Handed

—- outside acquisition necessary (aging vet)

DH:
Same candidates as above

Same explanation as above, but as DH is a starting position, I think you need to look for a starter level player.

—-outside acquisition necessary (starter level hitter LH if possible)

So we need: (conservatively..as Yadi, Waino, Arenado are no done deals)
A good dependable starting pitcher
A starter level LH Bat for either bench or DH
A bench bat with power preferably LH

All of these are needed for right now as well, so i think you look to the offseason justification as reason to make the moves now. I think you may be able to get by without the extra bench bat as Carp is not gone yet and the rotation member adds to the bullpen so we should strengthen that way

There are lots of hard solutions, but i tend to go easy:

Texas Rangers

-Gibson (7mil contract 2022)…pitching great, older vet, innings eater, no long term commitment but provides stability, not a big amount of money
-Gallo (controlled for 2022)…he is probably the epitome of the way the game is played now whether we like it or not, gets on base a lot, hits HRs, strikes out a lot, plays GG level defense, is LH, is young

You make a trade for those two now, you can have a decent shot at a run in the second half hoping that Jack and Mik return, and also you cross off two big needs in the offseason.

A case for Minnesota and dealing for Berrios and Kepler is also well worth considering

It always comes down to what you give up, but with limited control (only next year) for both players form TEX, and Gibson’s age, and Gallo’s youth (ie will expect big contract after next year), I think they could be had. And I think as long as we can leave out Gorman, Herrera, Libertore, Walker…maybe Wynn…. the farm will be fine

I think it is worth remembering that if we deal from the farm, we will have TWO more drafts before the end of 2022, that is ample opportunity to replenish the farm.

And with the idea of the rotation for the future beyond 2022 as being mostly young with Mik as the vet (Jack, Hud, Libertore, Reyes, Mik) the need for immediate impact pitchers will be limited. The same can be said for the offense after 2022 also as the Arenado and Goldy deals are long means no immediate impact is needed. Knizner/Hererra for Catcher to replace Yadi, Gorman as DH or 2b is real. Surrounded by potentially (Carlson, Gallo, Arenado, Goldy, Gorman, Oneill, DeJong, Knizner/Hererra, Edman). It also means re-signing Gallo long term (or finding a better replacement)…but even if not after 2022 we should expect Gorman to be ready and we could look to Bader to start or to Free Agency to fill that void.

It seems a bit underwhelming to trade youth for an old Gibson, and for strike out machine in Gallo…. but it does seem to make sense right now…and for the future.

I don’t think anyone wants to give up on this season….but the offense is bad and depending on the return of two top pitchers to come back immediately and be impactful is not going to work.

[thejager]

I’m sorry but Jeff Albert should be punted. Maybe it’s scapegoating a bit, but they need to do something to prove they see it and are trying to change it, not to just the fans but the players too.

Having said that, there was plenty to show he shouldn’t have been here last year let alone this year. Players are consistently getting worse outside of a few instances. The offense has gotten worse ever since he arrived.

It’s his job to see the laws and fix them, he hasnt done that.

HE can’t hit for them or make them change, BUT …Results matter, and coaches know that the performance of others is linked to their success, so when those players fail THEY fail and they pay the consequences.

He should be gone, it might not be fair but it is a long time coming.

[thejager]

Not a bad list, though i’d add a few names

Boyd
Haniger
Pineda
TRogers (MIN) (not sure why he might be available but quality)
Colome
IKennedy
Soler
Merrifield
Duffy
BKeller
MKelly

and i really want to add a lot of Bucs and Reds, but no one will even consider talking about it because it is intradivision…but…
Gray, Castillo, SHOward, RRodriguez, BReynolds, AFrazier

I think we need a minimum of 1 OF bat (Lefty or good against righties and lefties), 2 SPs, 1 RP (preferably Lefty)

I like Nootbar and all, but i am not hitching the season on his breakout and Bader’s return being enough for the offense

David Peralta seems best fit…i don’t especially like Merrill Kelly, but a combo deal of him and Peralta wouldnt be the worst way to get two parts with one deal

Easiest next answer would Berrios and Rogers… but i doubt it can happen…one could argue for Gibson and Kennedy duo deal too

Berrios alone would be worth it with his extra year of control

then look to Kennedy from TEX or hope that with Kelly and Berrios in the rotation Gant and CMart would shore up the pen,

move OViedo to AAA stretch out LeBlanc and Woodford and Rondon and try them out for a while and hope Mikolas or Jack can return for a final push

Waino, Berrios, Kelly, Kim, Leblanc/Woodford/Rondon
I think that works

Reyes, Gallegos, Cabrera, Helsley, Miller, CMart, Gant, Junior, 1 of whomever doesnt make rotation…and potentially Hicks’ return and addition to pen of other starters when Mik and/or Jack return make that as deep as you could want

lineup wise, PEralta is steady if unspectacular, but i think his extra bit of contact is probably enough to spur the offense to life a bit, especially with Nootbar showing life and Bader returning (and he was hitting well before he went down)

Edman plays 2b with Peralta, and that even allows him to play SS and Sosa to get more ABs if DeJong continues to struggle

Carlson, Peralta, Goldy, ARenado, Oneill, Yadi, DeJong, Edman
Bader, Knizner, Carp, Sosa/Rondon, Nootbar
(rotate Bader in a lot)

Carp is close to being DFA’d i would have to think, he has shown ZERO improvement…at this point i’d be more worried about losing Rondon or Sosa’s production just to keep him around

—-

Does the FO have it in them to make some additions?

As i have said a lot, I am fine with losing decent prospects for additions that are not 1/2 yr rentals, it gives us drafts to restock…as long as the quality coming back is enough…Berrios (Rogers)…also as they are more than rentals they also serve as offseason moves that you don’t have to make letting you focus on less things…maybe looking for a bigger deal or really focusing on contracts etc.

If you go for true rentals, you gotta aim low on the quality or forget about age restrictions…look at who is hot and use them for their good year or end of the contract…Peralta

Personally I’d like a Berrios and Rogers deal, a Gibson deal, along with a Bucs deal…Reynolds, Frazier

shift Edman to SS, Frazier to 2b, Reynolds in CF, Rogers fixes the back end and replaces Miller spot next year shores up left side of pen, Berrios gives us a higher end starter #2 type and #1 type until JAck is back and fills a hole in the rotation next year that Kim/CMARt/Waino will make, and Gibson is having a good year and will eat innings

I don’t know if we could do those deals without losing one of Herrera, Gorman, Libertore, Walker, Winn…but i’d try

[thejager]

I tend to agree about Peralta…solid 4th OFer to rotate for injury and handedness specialty

I am trying to look at teams that are possibly looking to deal now, I like Heaney but i think the Angels are pushing not flailing

I like Scherzer but i am not paying his price for this year…maybe in the offseason…but even then he will be a bidding contest even at his age.

To me I am looking at KC, Minny, TEX, ARZ, DET, SEA…I like PIT but intraleague rarely seems to happen

then i think about combo deals…instead of trying to deal with too many teams and deals

and hopefully more than a rental

TEX is intriguing with maybe Kennedy and Gibson and maybe Gallo
Minny…obviously as i said above
ARZ…same…
Det…maybe…Boyd just hit injured list…
KC has some starters..
SEA…Haniger and some mediocre starters…maybe Flexen?

Maybe:
Merrill Kelly and Peralta deal..
then
find one more starter independent…

Getting 2 starters now…could allow Gant to move to pen…or Kim…or even Oviedo or Cmart

To me Merrill and Berrios move the needle for the rotation and bolster the pen
adding Rogers moves the needle in the pen and with the help from the rotation of whomever moves into the pen creates much better roles and an imposing pen

Peralta as you said is a good complementary piece…but Haniger is a strong option too if he coudl come for a decent price

At the end of the day i dont think they can survive to the trade deadline or injury returns… it would be a hope and prayer for a wild card spot and that would depend on the injured coming back truly healthy and performing

Losing Jack should have been a really big wake up for the Cardinals…it truly exposed their dependency on having a stopper…Waino is our Ace now and that is very uncacceptable as organization… Mik was no guarantee for health, Kim for effectiveness, Cmart for anything, Waino, for age, Gant etc….that is not a responsible way to go into the season… we need a big time #2 every year…

Don’t wait…act

[thejager]

I agree about Dean getting a shot, though I am liking Sosa’s bat a bit more than Dean’s so, Edman in RF is my preference.

If I am Moz and Girsch I am thinking about moves that help longer than this year, because in the offseason there is a lot of money leaving but also a lot of spots that need to be filled. Money alone can buy you some, but a trade NOW when we really need it could be exactly what we NEED to do.

I think we need a minimum of one impact SP, and RP right now. Maybe a flier on another SP too. We also need another bat (probably OF).

I am on 2 trades:

Berrios + Rogers
Merrill Kelly + Peralta

Other than Peralta they all are able to be signed through next year for reasonable amounts. And to be honest, re-signing Peralta for a 11yr deal with option (yes even at his age) might be a smart move as we are still lacking depth in the OF that is close enough to help.

Here is how i see it:

Kim = Hudson
Waino = Berrios
Cmart = Kelly
Miller = Rogers
Carp = Peralta (lefty rotation/matchup starter/lefty bench bat)

Berrios is high enough quality combined with Hudson and the coming of Libertore to fill out the top end of a rotation.

Question is always what it takes to acquire these guys, but I think there is a deal to be made with the Twins…probably hurts a bit more than we’d like but Rogers and Berrios are serious players. The DBacks have made several deals with us in the past and i think they know our system and the potential of it so I think they’d be much more apt to make a deal than let’s say the Marlins or Rockies.

Kelly is no world beater but he will eat innings. Peralta is the kind of guy we can acquire right now, he is too old to require much and the DBacks are going no where so saving some cash would be good.

Peralta + Kelly
for
Yepez + Ponce + JWilliams

They get a cheaper replacement for Kelly, a decent lottery ticket in Yepez, and a lefty OFer that is younger than Peralta who in their house might be a a bit more productive.

Berrios and Rogers will hurt, both are big time tickets for any team and the Twins know they can hold them to get whatever they want late. So this is going to hurt, but i think the Twins know the value of quantity over big name recognition. Still it will take something impressive to get them to move NOW, when we need it.

Still I don’t want to move Gorman, Herrera, Libertore…and hopefully not Walker (we just need as many hitters as possible)

Berrios + Rogers
for
Thompson + ARondon(or Oviedo if they value him higher) + MNunez + Burleson

(i would personally try to get Astudillo for Knizner if possible and maybe it could help tilt the scale)

I am not sure this is enough to get them to move, so maybe it has to be something like:
Walker, LThomas, Whitley

It all depends on who they are high on, but these are not rental prices…these are 2 years prices so we have to remember we can fill some of the the losses to the farm from the 2 new drafts that will happen

21 would have it’s reinforcements

22 would be pretty set, barring a lefty hitter for the OF (like Peralta)
Jack, Berrios, Kelly, Mik, Hudson….. Libertore, AReyes, Oviedo
Hicks, AReyes/Oviedo, Gallegos, Rogers, Gant, Genesis, Helsley, Junior etc.

[thejager]

he is a guy you can plug in for emergency and then not care if you have to release him…like so many of the players last year who were up and released… you need a constant supply of these guys or you will kill your farm by pushing guys up too quick

at best he is lottery ticket..at worst he saves an arm or two in a blow out

[thejager]

I like the 1 stop shopping that the Twins might be able to provide. If we are going to lose something important I want to make sure we bring back things that are good, and hopefully fix more things

Berrios
Rogers
Kepler
Astudillo

-Berrios is under control for another year and is a good 2 to Jack and fill in 1 for now
-Rogers is a beast of a lefty RP and also a solid closer, everything TMiller was supposed to be and is under control
-Kepler is under control until age 31 (6.5,6.5, 8.5, 10option), not a high average guy but has 30 HR power and is a lefty, can play all 3 OF spots and decent speed.
-Astudillo…well I love this guy his versatility and ability to MAKE CONTACT is unparalleled perhaps in the history of the game. He would be an immediate fan favorite (trust me, go look at his love), and his multi positional flex would allow him to pinch hit and still stay in the game so Yadi could stay in (protecting us from injury to Yadi). In effect he provides an extra bench player as we no longer have to keep the backup catcher in a glass box. Also, as my trade idea has in it Knizner he replaces Knizner on the roster with a competent backup catcher.

This would be a costly trade, but none of the parts would be rentals and all have enough upside to be worthy of losing big prospects.

Thompson
Oviedo
Knizner
Baker
Torres
one more good prospect (MNunez, Fletcher, Burleson)

We take on SOME money, but it is good money and nothing crazy (unless Kepler’s contract is too long), nothing that would even stop us from upgrading something else in the offseason (and might even allow us to focus on one thing instead of lots of moves)

Twins save a considerable amount of money for their payroll, and snag a ton of prospects in the process.

I even think my offer is probably way too light, and might require BAder or Thomas or a bigger prospect like an Angel Rondon, Jordan Walker or Maisyn Winn, or maybe even swapping in Libertore for Thompson. Also, losing Libertore could be mitigated by having Berrios to some degree. Especially given the climate for trades and the Cards desperateness

Oviedo and Thompson are no joke good prospects, and will be cheap for the Twins for a long time. Knizner slots in right now with Garver out and maybe allows them to use Garver as DH more.

This a trade of young upside over established solid but unspectacular not young and not old vets. You know what you are getting with Berrios, Rogers, Kepler and Astudillo. Maybe there is a little upside in Berrios and MAYBE Kepler can be the .250 hitter instead of the .220 hitter. But these guys have been doing what they do for a while.

It would be a blockbuster, and cut our farm way down. BUT it would provide more than rentals and gives us a nice at minimum 2yr run with solid players and allow in the offseason Moz to find a way to afford Max.

2022:
Edman
Carlson
Goldy
Arenado
Kepler
ONeill
DH (Gorman)
DeJong
Yadi/AStudillo

Jack, Max, Berrios, Hudson, Mik……..Reyes/Libertore
Hicks, Rogers, Gallegos, Helsley, Genesis, Gant, Ponce, Whitley/Woodford

Anyways…my trade is definitely off… (BAseballtradevalues has us undergiving by 40ish…though it has Kepler’s value really high and AStudillo’s too so i think it is a bit off..but still weighted for Cardinals too much in my proposition) but the basic tenant remains… closer, frontline SP, Lefty masher, and for me a replacement catcher with versatility…that solves a lot of concerns and should get us back to the playoffs and maybe get back some injured folks for a big push. All while not sacrificing talent for only THIS year.

revised for baseballtravevalues to make it work:
Thompson
DeJong
Hererra
Bader
Rondon
Walker

eek…that’s a lot…that would hurt…but i do think this site is not exactly right and there are discrepancies…still…

[thejager]

I don’t see an Iglesias move so quick after they acquired him…

I wonder about a guy like Ian Kennedy, veteran but has been getting the job done for years now with little acclaim

[thejager]

Injuries to players cause subpar performance and thus overuse and overexposure of non-0injured players happens.

Give me a healthy Hicks, Mikolas, ONeill, Carlson, DeJong, and even Miller for that series and i think the outcome would have been different

Having said that…we need a SP (Max first choice…Boyd feels an intriguing look)
and we need an OF that is lefthanded or anyone who can get on against both hands and is not a liability
..David Peralta is the obvious and best fit IMO.

[thejager]

Polanco is an intriguing option…but his arm seems pretty shot…

and he only last night got his first hit off a lefty after 20 shots (including 10 Ks)

Im not sure i want to invest in him the level of value that would stay in the division it would take

now Bryan Reynolds? I like the way he plays…solid everywhere, not spectacular but stable and solid… lots of doubles… all in a package that can play all 3 OF spots well …love that…might be worth watching prospects play for the Pirates to get him

Haniger is becoming more and more unattainable with his hot start…

Peralta is still hitting well too…

MArte has been hurt so he’s a tough call..

Gallo has not really been his crazy power version of himself…

Peralta still seems like the best fit…. LH…enough power and speed and AVG..good OFer

Max + Peralta…

maybe Matt Boyd if we can’t get Max…

[thejager]

I think the idea of KK in the pen makes a lot of sense when CMart is back, i think he did well with it last year. And the fact that he could come in as a long man option as well as lefty relief (which seems to be how we are using Webb) makes sense to me…and might make Webb be better as he would be forced to do less

Miller seems at best to be coin flip, and maybe a DFA if he doesn’t show well in his rehab in the minors.

Jack, Waino, CMart, Mikolas, Gant

I know Gant has had a lot of experience and success in the pen, as has CMart…for me it just comes down to we really only have Genesis right now from the left side. KK could help that

Ponce and KK in the pen could really help too for having pseudo piggy backs for starters like Gant and CMart or whomever if they come unraveled…Ponce and KK both easily stretched out to do 3 innings if need be

Gant isn’t my favorite starter, but he has a really good mentality and focus and determination to win…despite his walks he has kept his ERA down…to me that shows he is a guy who can deal with adversity well…

KK the other day when his pitches werent right seemed to cave and give in…Gant however kept walking folks and found a way…same goes for CMart when he goes bad sometimes..

It’s anecdotal but that’s the way i see it

[thejager]

Guys do dumb things and get hurt…guys do smart things and get hurt…this seems a minor thing…too bad though as he was kind of on a roll

What upsets me..is that we called up Oviedo…Tuesday…yet he is supposed to start Thursday… why Tuesday?

Why not actually call up something that could be useful for a couple of days before needing Oviedo?

You know, like maybe a pinch runner like Hurst for an extra inning game on Tuesday?

Or an extra catcher so we can use Knizner for a couple pinch hit opportunities without worry like Tuesday?

Or maybe an extra arm in case we go to extra innings like Tuesday?

OR maybe just anything..it is a waste of a spot for 2 games that could be a big deal…why bring him up… just a dumb move and I could care less what the party line is on the “Reason”, it is a mistake plain and simple.

Especially with the taxi squad, you could have put Oviedo on Taxi so he is up and prepping…but bring back Ali or really anyone

so frustrating…

[thejager]

Why not just walk the guy after Didi? throw up the 4 fingers Shildty? He could have gotten him out right there and then.

But he didn’t want to LOSE the game by loading the bases with no outs.

The game and rules didn’t fail anyone, placing winning over potentially hurting someone did. Winning stopped Shildt from getting him out. Period.

And to be honest, Webb I think would have gotten out of the inning anyways the way he was locked in for that inning. even if not, he wouldn’t have done worse.

[thejager]

noodle bat? average OF? he fields pretty great, has a GG and SS award in his pocket already
.275+ AVG, 15ish HRs, already earned .4 WAR on the year, looks to be about worth 1.5-2

he is 33, a 2 yr extension to fill the gap and provide depth until better solutions come around would not be a bad move at all. Especially given it will be for less than he is getting now i have to imagine

everyone complains about age, but there are guys that play fine at that age

Whit Merrifield TOO old right? every year people say it and he keeps performing, Yadi is done? yeah no… Waino is done…yeah no..

Peralta is NOT a perfect solution long term…but that does not make him what the team needs right now…a dependable hitter with experience and a track record of success, he won’t hurt you in the OF and even if he was re-signed for a couple year at worst he’d be a veteran backup, and with the DH coming in he might fit right in to an OF/DH mix.

The best hitters we have are guys that are older…who’d a thunk? Experience matters and produces solid results. Goldy, Yadi, Arenado…all over 30…Edman and Carlson are great guys to grow up for us…but that doesn’t mean we don’t need vets who we dont have to “hope” figure it out. Yes, Carp seems done and is older…BUT he has also looked poor and gotten worse every year for the last 3 yrs…despite his contract being given to him…Moz just couldn’;t take off his Ruby colored HR glasses to look beyond his brief but prolific outbursts each year that hid his decline

Would i prefer a higher value longer term slam dunk solution…yeah…but it is not happening, not with Moz… a Larry Walker, Berkman, Beltran like signing/trade is a hallmark of some of the most successful teams we have had…

Peralta might not cost much in trade value, and less in re-signing….and we could throw that money at Scherzer… gives ONeill, Bader, and any other young OFer a chance to break in per their ability NOT our hopes and prayers…or worse out of necessity

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