July 3, 2021 at 9:04 pm #165505jj-cf-stlParticipantPaid - Annual
If Edman is the 4th OF, I’m fine with that, opens more playing time for Sosa.
Long term, what I’ve seen of our outfield depth is not adequate. Maybe there is a hot prospect coming, I wouldn’t know, but I’d be fine with that.July 4, 2021 at 8:59 am #165526LACardFanParticipantFree
Washington Nationals are only 3.5 games back of the Mets, and have lost both Trea Turner and Kyle Schwarber recently.
This might be the once chance we have to trade DeJong.July 6, 2021 at 1:52 pm #165775
As I have said a lot, not that anyone should care, but to me the decision to buy now or not is not limited to the reclamation only of this season.
In the offseason the team will have a lot to do, even if they played well thee rest of the year. There are a lot of guys on the way out (with only a few being locks to return) and this does not even consider Arenado leaving.
Looking for solutions right now that help try to salvage this year can also be things that will be needed in the offseason anyways, and i don’t really trust Free Agency to be the solution for much if any of those needs.
Lok to solutions that a re control for at least next year, do not consider any rentals, save the “cash considerations” types.
Waino-SP (return likely)
TMiller-LHRP back end
Yadi-C (return likely)
Carp- LH power from bench and Util IF 2b/3b
Also we should consider that the DH is going to happen, in all likelihood next year.
So in all liklihood we need:
2 RP one back end Lefty
1 starting Catcher
1 power hitting LH hitter
This makes sense, but again puts us in a situation where we are very susceptible to injuries or age Mikolas and Jack will have to be healthy or we will be right back where we are today. Waino is no guarantee for perfromance, Hudson returnign from injury is no guarantee, nor is Reyes and Libertore being ready for the rotation
—so you need at least one outside acquisition of quality
Genesis as back end LHRP, but we would need lower leverage LHRP then…Leblanc?
I think this works itself out internally, but I could see going for a no name to fill it as well
—no acquisition absolutely necessary
If Yadi wants to play he plays and we play him, if not.. Knizner starts and we use a journeyman or kid for backup as we inch closer to Herrera
—- no acquisition necessary
Bench LH power spot starter:
Williams, Thomas and Nootbaar seem fine AAAA guys for depth but not really impact. IF we do go the Gorman route here it seems a bit too fast for a kid to be thrust in that role. I say let Gorman’s bat push his promotion not our necessity. Thus with a good looking option coming an outside guy seems a good fit, but probably 1 or 2yr contract. As the OF seems the biggest hole in the offense (IMO) and Gorman is coming either the DH or this spot should be filled with an OF and Left Handed
—- outside acquisition necessary (aging vet)
Same candidates as above
Same explanation as above, but as DH is a starting position, I think you need to look for a starter level player.
—-outside acquisition necessary (starter level hitter LH if possible)
So we need: (conservatively..as Yadi, Waino, Arenado are no done deals)
A good dependable starting pitcher
A starter level LH Bat for either bench or DH
A bench bat with power preferably LH
All of these are needed for right now as well, so i think you look to the offseason justification as reason to make the moves now. I think you may be able to get by without the extra bench bat as Carp is not gone yet and the rotation member adds to the bullpen so we should strengthen that way
There are lots of hard solutions, but i tend to go easy:
-Gibson (7mil contract 2022)…pitching great, older vet, innings eater, no long term commitment but provides stability, not a big amount of money
-Gallo (controlled for 2022)…he is probably the epitome of the way the game is played now whether we like it or not, gets on base a lot, hits HRs, strikes out a lot, plays GG level defense, is LH, is young
You make a trade for those two now, you can have a decent shot at a run in the second half hoping that Jack and Mik return, and also you cross off two big needs in the offseason.
A case for Minnesota and dealing for Berrios and Kepler is also well worth considering
It always comes down to what you give up, but with limited control (only next year) for both players form TEX, and Gibson’s age, and Gallo’s youth (ie will expect big contract after next year), I think they could be had. And I think as long as we can leave out Gorman, Herrera, Libertore, Walker…maybe Wynn…. the farm will be fine
I think it is worth remembering that if we deal from the farm, we will have TWO more drafts before the end of 2022, that is ample opportunity to replenish the farm.
And with the idea of the rotation for the future beyond 2022 as being mostly young with Mik as the vet (Jack, Hud, Libertore, Reyes, Mik) the need for immediate impact pitchers will be limited. The same can be said for the offense after 2022 also as the Arenado and Goldy deals are long means no immediate impact is needed. Knizner/Hererra for Catcher to replace Yadi, Gorman as DH or 2b is real. Surrounded by potentially (Carlson, Gallo, Arenado, Goldy, Gorman, Oneill, DeJong, Knizner/Hererra, Edman). It also means re-signing Gallo long term (or finding a better replacement)…but even if not after 2022 we should expect Gorman to be ready and we could look to Bader to start or to Free Agency to fill that void.
It seems a bit underwhelming to trade youth for an old Gibson, and for strike out machine in Gallo…. but it does seem to make sense right now…and for the future.
I don’t think anyone wants to give up on this season….but the offense is bad and depending on the return of two top pitchers to come back immediately and be impactful is not going to work.July 6, 2021 at 1:52 pm #165776
yeah…that was long…im sorry…i dont get to talk Cardinals muchJuly 7, 2021 at 1:24 am #165903so_cal_cards_fanParticipantFree
Thanks for this. We have some pretty good pitchers coming back from injuries.July 8, 2021 at 6:56 pm #166033Cardinals27ParticipantPaid - Annual
I said last winter that I wish the Cardsa would have signed Alex Wood. Or at least hindsight says we should have went for another starting candidate. Especially given CMart and Mikolas’s uncertain health.
Wood might be a nice addition next year though.July 8, 2021 at 6:58 pm #166034Cardinals27ParticipantPaid - Annual
And at this point doesn’t resigning Kim seem very important. Not sure of the length he should be given, or what he would want.July 8, 2021 at 7:16 pm #166037jj-cf-stlParticipantPaid - Annual
K’s uncertain health is a bad back. Having said that, his 13th GS was team game 81, so he’s on pace for 26 GS, with no missed time going forward.July 9, 2021 at 10:03 am #166085
I would not be in favor of bringing Kim back unless it was another team friendly deal. I am tired of giving out deals to players his age. A one year deal maybe.July 12, 2021 at 11:14 am #166322
I agree with GScott… 12yr deal favorable terms… MAYBE a mutual option for 2nd year
But really…he has pitched well enough I think that someone will give him 2-3yrs
he is a lefty after all and a starter and despite his slight injuries been able to come back each timeJuly 14, 2021 at 8:36 am #166499
Kim on a cheap deal is fine, he could be good depth as a starter or reliever. Maybe 2 years at $6-7M per if he’s willing.July 26, 2021 at 7:20 am #167835
You’ve got to feel for Pirates fans…July 26, 2021 at 1:55 pm #167862
As far as what he’d return? Probably not much. Hasn’t made the postseason roster in either of the last two years. Would be a non-tender candidate for any team this winter. Cardinals need to clear 40-man spots for Flaherty and Mikolas; would likely be prospects off the roster.
— Jeff Jones (@jmjones) July 26, 2021July 27, 2021 at 5:41 pm #1679081964cardsParticipantPaid - Annual
Really … the Cards would trade Gant for not much, all to clear roster space? I would think the Cards would either get something decent for Gant or release one or two of the recent “signings from scrap pile” made by Mo and Girsh.July 28, 2021 at 11:48 am #168068
It’s hard not to try to come up with Trea Turner trades right now.
As much as i like Gorman and Libertore and Walker…. Trea Turner is a beast…true 5 tool
I know DeJong has been a bit better recently and Bader is bossing, but Turner in our lineup makes me feel a lot better about depending on the return of Mikolas nd Jack somehow making this season work.
I know we all have seemingly slotted Gorman into the DH role (or some variation of somehow being in the starting lineup) but maybe this gives him more time..or allows Edman to be more super utility in his starts?
Still..it is all moot if you can’t actually acquire Turner without moving Gorman
Would a deal like:
Thompson, Walker, Knizner, Hence work? OR is there a deal where DeJong is included? OR maybe even Edman? Maybe something that lets us keep Walker, Lib, Gorman, Herrera??
I like Walker a lot, but he seems farther off…if not THAT much farther off…
I guess…even if we moved Gorman in a deal for him…or whomever…. Would they EVER be what Turner is? Do we really think Gorman or Walker are future MVP candidates? OR are they really promising CHEAP players that we HOPE would be good?
Turner is good RIGHT now (and we are in a RIGHT NOW window with Arenado and Goldy), he is not old, and he can plug in at the top of a lineup or right in the middle. And plays top SS defense, and he is controlled for 2 more years.
Turner is a difference maker, and is available. He isnt a rental. Gorman and Libertore and Walker are not guarantees.July 28, 2021 at 12:00 pm #168069
He only has one more year of control left. You would have to feel confident you could sign him long term before you gave up the farm for him.July 28, 2021 at 2:05 pm #168102
my bad…i thought he had 2yrs of ARB left
Lowers the asking price a bit i’d imagine…but not much given his impact.
I am confident that the Cards could re-sign him and that he would want that.
People are talking about looking at the big SS market in the offseason anyways.
Maybe… Edman, Walker, Thompson, Knizner, Hence?
(baseball trade simulator puts that pretty close)
DeJong slides to 2b
Turner, Carlson, Goldy, Arenado, Oneill, DeJong, Yadi, Bader
then, put Gorman in with the DH next year
Turner will be relatively cheap next year so you can pay for Waino, Yadi, Kim…and extend Jack…then re-sign Turner during the offseason in a deal that kicks in after the year is over or ramps up at least after next year. Maybe then you can bring in a big Starter (maybe even Max which i am sure Trea would like and might even help in getting Max to come)
With the production you would get from Trea we could accept a bit less from DeJong and one of the OFers…letting Bader be just defensive is fine as long as we get production elsewhere, same for DeJong even.
Max, Jack, Waino, Mik….Kim, Hudson, Reyes, Libertore, Oviedo
I dunno… it would be expensive in prospects now and expensive later to re-sign… but Turner plus Max (if im playing this game) gives us a very good window next year and still strong youth…
and with the window that provides…it also allows for the farm to recoverJuly 29, 2021 at 7:43 pm #168181
Dodgers closing in on a deal for Turner and Scherzer. Must be nice to have money to spend and a deep farm too.July 30, 2021 at 12:44 am #168189Card4EverParticipantFree
So does this mean Seagar is gone?July 30, 2021 at 8:39 am #168197
It sounds like Turner may play some CF or 2B, maybe stepping into SS if Seager leaves this off-season. The Dodgers have an insane amount of talent.July 30, 2021 at 8:49 am #168199
A lot of interesting moves so far.
Scherzer and Turner to the Dodgers.
Duffy to the Dodgers.
Gallo to the Yankees.
Rizzo to the Yankees.
Schwarber to the Red Sox.
Tepera and Hernandez to the White Sox.
Hand to the Blue Jays.
There will be many more deals today before the 3pmCT deadline. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Bryant, Kimbrel, Davies, and Baez traded by the Cubs.
You know the Padres and Mariners will be active today. Preller and Depoto are aggressive.
Will the Cardinals make any moves? I am not expecting any big moves although this might be a good time to get a player with a year or two of control. That is just less shopping you have to do in the offseason, especially since we don’t know what the new CBA rules will be.July 30, 2021 at 9:32 am #168208
I also saw where Marte is going to the A’s.
Eduardo Escobar is going to the Brewers. That is a really nice pickup for the Brewers.
Interestingly enough the Yankees are not paying any salary to Gallo and Rizzo this year. The Rangers and Cubs are picking up the tabs. The Yanks must have had to give up better prospects to pull that off. I know they are trying to stay under the luxury tax cap.
The Dodgers are sending four prospects to the Nats, including their two top picks who are rated in the top 50 industry wide.August 1, 2021 at 7:58 am #168505CardsFanInChiTownParticipantFree
Per Cots, Cards have around $80M on the books for next year and $164 this year. These are very ballpark numbers, but if they add 5% (fans all year) for 2022, that would put them at $172M – 80 – 20 (arb guys) – 10 (pre arb) – 16 (Yadi & Waino?) they would have $45-50M to spend on upgrades. I feel like the OF’s are basically locked in with Edman and younger guys as the back ups, 1st and 3rd are obviously locked in and hopefully Yadi comes back with Knizner as the backup again.
So middle infield, a DH, a SP or two and a bullpen piece or two would be where that money should go. With the depth, even beyond the big names, SS is the most likely spot for a big lineup splash, and I see Gorman as the future 2B with DeJong and Edman playing 2nd until he’s ready.
I’m really hoping Lester actually performs well the rest of the year and he could be resigned for 2022, and maybe another 1 or two year deal for an older pitcher that throws strikes and eats innings (Waino please) and/or Kk. JF, MM, Reyes (fingers crossed), Waino, KK, Lester, and another vet would seem solid in my opinion with Oviedo always an option.
A left handed bat first proven DH would also be on my wish list, someone who could play the field once or twice a week would be ideal, but a proven bat would be most important aspect.
All of that seems possible, when you’re 5 spots out of the lowest number of runs scored in the league, the SS and DH need to be addressed over the pitching.August 1, 2021 at 11:42 am #168520
Good analysis chitown. Instead of one big splash this team needs several smaller splashes. We need depth, depth, and more depth. I think the starting OF is pretty much set but we need a quality 4th OF who can step in and put up some numbers. That has been sorely missing on this team.
I like Edman better as a super sub than I do starting 2B. If we are going to get a big position player acquisition I would do it at SS or 2B.
There is a lot to sort out pitching wise. The starters signed for 2022 are Flaherty, Mikolas, and Hudson. We could bring Waino, Kim, Lester, and LeBlanc back on cheapish one year deals and maybe go after one more quality starter (Scherzer maybe). Then we have to figure out what Reyes is going to do. As we saw this year you can’t have too much depth.
We should be able to shore up this team for $40-$50M if we spread it around properly instead of spending it all on one or two players.August 1, 2021 at 5:22 pm #168562LACardFanParticipantFree
So middle infield, a DH, a SP or two and a bullpen piece or two would be where that money should go.
Our 2B next year will likely be Gorman. We will have four shortstops on the roster (DeJong, Sosa, Edman & Robertson). Our DH will probably be Yepez, and otherwise will be used to get people like Knizner and Williams (assuming he makes it out of camp with the Cardinals) some at bats.
Position-wise, it seems the only thing unsettled is our fourth outfielder.
Pitching-wise, we need to replace Wainwright, Kim and Carlos Martinez in the starting pitcher depth. And who knows if Mikolas will pitch. I do expect Wainwright to sign another year. Kim may do so as well, but right now, they are free agents.
Relief pitching – I would rather see them pick up somebody like Tony Watson in the offseason at a low price than do waiver claims during the year or trade for him at the deadline. LOL
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