September 9, 2021 at 9:13 am #171987
SS is turning out to be a real conundrum for the Cardinals. DeJong continues to regress with the bat each season as his salary increases each year. He is still owed two more years and two options. Sosa has done an admirable job filling in but do we really think he is an everyday player for a contending team? I mean he might be but I am not sold on that idea.
Meanwhile, there will be all several all star caliber SS free agents available but I think the Cardinals will be leery of that avenue also. Technically we could afford another $20M+ player but it would make our payroll extremely top heavy. According to Cot’s we have $88M tied up next year with Arenado, Goldy, Mikolas, Yadi, and DeJong. You can probably add another $10 for Waino. That would be $98M for six players. You still have to pay for the other 20 players and some of those are in arbitration. I don’t know if adding another big salary makes sense. It might be better to spread the money around a bit.September 10, 2021 at 10:43 am #172072
I am not sold on Sosa…and DeJong just isnt getting better…. Going with Sosa is similar to committing with DeJong after he had a good year in the minors and AFL and one solid year in MLB…
It’s too risky to gamble on the offense “figuring it out” for a 4th straight season. Or depending on kids to be the difference maker.
Stay aw ay from Baez…Semien seems too old…Correa will be too expensive…Story outside of Coors and all the K’s????….Seager (with his somewhat troubling injury past) seems to be the sweetspot
Having said that…I could also see the Cards “settling” (which means being cheap) for an aging
Chris Taylor and giving the excuse/justification that they havent given up on DeJong and like Sosa…so bringing in a multi positional guy like Taylor makes the most sense…
And i like Chris Taylor…but i liked him 2years ago… this would scream of several similar types of signings of guys who would be better targets a few years before…. Andrew Miller, Mark Ellis, Fowler, even Goldschmidt and Arenado to some degree (more Goldy than Nolan though)
With the announcement that Reyes not close the rest of they ear and do multi inning work and will pretty much be looking at an offseason that preps him for a starting spot next year…i don’t really see how we target a starter without a major trade form the rotation…Waino will get signed
-Jack, Mik, Waino…locks…Mikolas has no value in a trade at his price point…Jack and Waino are obv.
-Hudson….seems a lock with his recovery where it is and potential to be playing a few innings with the big club even this year
-Reyes…seems destined..and with Libertore already with a full year of AAA and Thompson, Woodford, Oviedo, Rondon, Ponce…i don’t see this spot being open for a veteran FA signing
I think you look hard at bringing back Kim…for the right price…Lester and Happ may be pitching their ways into better contracts (or at least better playing time)…LeBlanc seemed an option before his injury…and to be honest…perhaps BECAUSE of his injury he is worth a look again as his value will be depressed
Now factor in the DH, it is the perfect time to add a real hitter…even if it WAS with still going with Sosa and DeJong…
To me, we have one big contract to hand out and it should be to a SS
-Kim 2yr (protects SP and pen)
-LeBlanc 1yr (minor league with ST invite perhaps)
-McFarland (unsure on status of FA)
-Garcia (unsure on status of FA)
-Seager (starting SS)
-Pujols (LHP DH and LHP pinch hit)
-Yepez/Gorman/Baker all fight for bench/RHP DH spot
-DeJong takes Carp bench spot (gets time in OF and 1b during ST)
-Sosa is challenged by Perez and both get some time in OF in ST
-Edman, Goldy, Seager, Arenado, Oneill, Carlson, Pujols/Yepez (DH), Yadi, Bader
–Knizner, DeJOng, Sosa, Nootbaar
-Jack, Mik, Hud, Waino, Reyes…..Libertore
–Gallegos, Hicks, Genesis, Garcia, McFarland, Kim, Helsley/Whitley, Woodford/Ponce
Looks pretty solid to me:
-rotation is better than we think with Hud returning and upside of Reyes or Libertore
-rotation protected with Libertore, Kim, Ponce, Wood, Thompson, Oviedo, Rondon, LeBlanc
-lineup can go LRLRLR a lot
-lineup is extremely strong in the field
-lineup has power
-bullpen is pretty deep and has the arms for injuries
-bullpen has long men to help with short starts or return from injury or innings limits or age
-bullpen has plenty off lefties who can get righties out
-closer role options
-DH spot options allow for Gorman to be brought up slowly instead of depended on
-bench has some flex and upside, each player other than part time Pujols has ability to start regularly if needed
-no absolute closer (but options)
-rotation is questionable with 3-4 iffy parts… (but one top flight FA starter doesnt change that concern)
-lineup is balanced…but leans a bit old
-bench OF is thin…but Edman’s flex and hopefully some offseason work should help that some
Is it a surefire WORLD SERIES favorite…no
A pretty good team built pretty well for a last go around for Waino, Yadi and Pujols…that will sell tickets…compete for central at minimum…and is still set up well for life after those three (Waino= Libertore, Kniz/Herrera=Yadi, Pujols=Gorman)
Going cheap on SS is a big mistake…Seager to me makes the most sense…and Baez won’t happen…but Semien, Story, Seager, or Correa all should be the primary focus of the offseasonSeptember 12, 2021 at 5:32 am #1721651964cardsParticipantPaid - Annual
Would be interested in what Raisel Iglesias will be asking for this off-season. He would be a nice addition to the bull pen.September 13, 2021 at 10:18 am #172247
I wish I hadn’t watched him so much in CIN. Just looking at the stats I would agree on Iglesias, but I am bias as he seemed far more mercurial than his stats may show IMO.
Also, I am not certain i want to spend the money he will probably get on a closer when there are other needs.
Still, I’d see what he asks regardlessSeptember 13, 2021 at 2:00 pm #172254
My hesitancy there is that usually when we spend on a bullpen piece it blows up in our face. (Gregerson, Cecil, Holland, Miller). We should be able to bring Garcia and McFarland back cheaply to go along with Cabrera, Hicks, and Gallegos.
I would spend elsewhere.September 13, 2021 at 2:11 pm #172256
I don’t love the idea of signing a bullpen guy either, but I guess it might help. Garcia is earning himself some money with his late season pitching.
As for Jager’s post, I can’t believe it but I think Pujols might really be an option for DH. He probably wouldn’t cost much at all and has a .976 OPS against lefties this year.
If we wanted to add some LH potential pop to the OF for cheaper than Seager, Conforto may be an option. He didn’t have a great 2021 but no Met really has. He’s been a little better since his return from injury and has a career .826 OPS/124 OPS+. His cost might be lower…maybe 3 years and $54M? Then maybe you slot Carlson into LF and move O’Neill to CF with Conforto in RF. Bader becomes the late inning defensive guy and you have room for Nootbar, Yepez or whomever as the 5th man.
Carlson, Goldy, Arenado, Conforto, O’Neill, Edman/Gorman, Pujols/Yepez, Yadi, Sosa/Dejong
I still think another starter in the Ray/Scherzer/Stroman mold would do the team a ton of good.
Flaherty, FA, Waino, Hudson, Kim/Libby/depth signingSeptember 13, 2021 at 2:28 pm #172257
I think Pujols is a legitimate option also. At one time I thought it would just be a marketing feel good ploy but he has put up decent numbers with the Dodgers when used properly. Some combination of Pujols, Gorman, and Yepez at DH should be decent production for little money.September 13, 2021 at 2:33 pm #172258
The marketing ploy wouldn’t hurt, either. You’d basically have guaranteed sellouts all of September on the Yadi-Waino-Pujols farewell tour even if the team was bad.September 13, 2021 at 6:04 pm #1722701964cardsParticipantPaid - Annual
I am not sold on bringing Albert back at this point. He definitely is a DH with Goldy on the roster, may only be a platoon player and carries the risk of injury (although DH only may minimize this risk). Maybe, if they could sign Albert on the cheap. I am not in favor of a Yadi-type deal.
I do not want to see the team lock up a chunk of change with a veteran player past his prime (e.g. Fowler, Carp). We end up with a poor return on that contract and limit the team’s flexibility to make other moves.September 13, 2021 at 6:23 pm #172272Brian WaltonKeymasterPaid - Annual
To me, it depends on whether they want to have a nostalgia show or put the best possible team on the field. It may be hard to fit a 41-year-old left-handed hitting specialist onto a four or five-man bench.September 14, 2021 at 10:45 am #172333
I think all these Pujols points are totally legit
Still…looking at Carp’s use this year I see it similarly to Pujols potential use except probably with better returns if used against lefties correctly
Also, he is not an embarrassment at 1b, there is just no way he can or should run out there every day if we want to maximize his value
against choice lefties and to give Goldy a day off he can do it
Still..i’d prefer Gorman or Yepez get those reps at 1b for development if i was pressed…but Pujols 2-3 ABs against the right lefty is fine
Pujols is obviously fine with a part time role
no doubt he wants 20HRs….hitting 700 for the Cards would be WAY bigger than doing it anywhere else…and the same goes for his last game played…. he knows where the love is, if i was his agent i’d be finding any way to convince StL to do it…. no one wants to go out on a whimper and even if he doesn’t hit well he won’t do that in StL
I think with Gorman being lefty and Yepez being a righty it makes a lot of sense right now…Yepez and Pujols make for a fine DH combo for cheap (or if you pull of a SS trade/sign add Dejong in there)…doesn’t force Gorman to be immediate impact…i still think Carlson might even be better had we not forced him up last year and had a stopgap DPeralta to share time with for the last 2 years.
If we aren’t dealing Gorman for an impact hitter then we need him to be an impact hitter…and i don’t want to rush that…i want his numbers SCREAMING for him to be called up (Yepez-like but with the high prospect status)
Still Pujols plus a top hitting SS and bringing back some seems the way to go for me…. I want that Scherzer or big pitcher, but i don’t see it with how they are talking up Reyes and have Libertore waiting….September 15, 2021 at 3:44 am #172497Cardinals27ParticipantPaid - Annual
I would add Scherzer and cast a wide net for relief help. Much like the Garcia and McFarland additions, I would add 3 or 4 veterans on either 1 year or minor league deals. If they cannot sign Scherzer, I would look at Alex Wood. Perhaps he could be had for 2 or 3 years, 12 to 15 mill per year.September 16, 2021 at 8:58 am #172627September 16, 2021 at 11:43 am #172633
eh… i dont agree… i think the Cardinals have consistently shown they can find pitching and teach pitching well enough to survive the onslaught of injurie and bad performances without having to spend big money…and they have TWO big SP prospects in Libertore and Reyes seemingly close
If they could get Max…sure..
What the Cardinals have NTO been able to do consistently is produce or go out and find mid-season is hitting talent…
and the offense has been bad for 3-4years…they have tried to fix it with internal hopes and dreams or resurgences…but it just doesn’t work…
outside help is needed…
Seager makes most sense…Story maybe
We can’t and shouldn’t expect Gorman to be a monster right away…or for Bader to yet again “figure it out” at the plate, or for DeJong to turn it around yet again…or Sosa to keep it up…or Yadi to yet again defy time..orr even Goldy or Arenado to not see a decline with age…
A solid to spectacular bat would go a long way in the Cardinasl plugging the offense holes it digs for itself that we experienced for the last 3-4yrs and for terrible multi-month or month long droughts as we have seen
what did FO do to help offense when we had injuries and poor play?
That’s is the help from AAA or outside that we got
Sosa saved us some
Knizner and Ali don’t count
yes i think Yepez, Gorman, maybe Baker PErez and PLummer maybe Burleson…might be able to help a bit next year…but should we be leaning and banking on that? That is dangerous…maybe let those guys be happy surprises or late season impact instead of depending on them to fix any holes from the start
The organization has proven it can make the most out of not much when it comes to pitching..or identify cheap outside help when pressed..
It has not shown it can solve offensive issues the same way…which is why you need to g o out and pay for dependable veteran talent …that unfortunately costs money…we have it…so do itSeptember 16, 2021 at 1:53 pm #172638
I wouldn’t mind spending some money for players like Kyle Schwarber or Chris Taylor. They would help the offense without killing the budget. Spending $250M to watch Corey Seager sit on the IL scares the heck out of me.September 16, 2021 at 3:41 pm #172641
Gscottar…that’s the exact line of thinking that got us the Fowler and Carp deals to begin with. You pay for average talent, you get average results. Taylor in particular is an example of a guy who’s going to be very mediocre away from the careful management of that stacked Dodgers lineup and some team is going to immensely regret it. Schwarber is another perfect example…he’s gonna get paid half (maybe more) of what Seager gets paid per year and will produce like a guy who was a 1.6 WAR/600 player before this year. Seager, as an example, has been worth roughly 3 times as much per season of PAs.
I’m just not interested in going small. I’d rather pay a guy like a 4-5 WAR player who could produce 6+ than pay a guy for 2-3 WAR who tops out at 3 and could well be a 1.
The only project I’m really interested in is Conforto, because I think he’ll be pretty good next year. He’s been about twice as good as Schwarber on a rate status in his career and probably will cost a few million more than Schwarber.September 16, 2021 at 5:02 pm #172644
The problem is that we don’t need to have our payroll so top heavy. We already have two very large contracts (Goldy and Arenado) and a third if you count Mikolas. Adding another mega-contract is extremely risky. If the guy ends up hurt then you are completely sunk. I would rather spread the money around to multiple players.September 16, 2021 at 6:46 pm #172647UncleDennyParticipantPaid - Annual
We need a centerfielder and a shortstop. Hard to make room for another corner outfielder.September 16, 2021 at 7:06 pm #172649LoganAlpha30X7ParticipantFree
We need to figure out our situation at 2B, SS, and the three OF’s, the guys that we have now would fit into the second or third outfielder roles imho…September 16, 2021 at 7:24 pm #172651
We need a centerfielder and a shortstop. Hard to make room for another corner outfielder.
O’Neill to CF. He’s plenty fast enough, I don’t know why it hasn’t been considered already.September 21, 2021 at 8:11 am #172949CardsFanInChiTownParticipantFree
I would be beyond shocked if the OF in 2022 wasn’t TON, Bader and Carlson on opening day, they are pretty darn good, and cheap. I’m in no way negative regarding Sosa, but SS is where the lineup could add an impact bat. Any preferences or absolutely nots?
Just to piss off Cubs fans (I live less than a mile from Wrigley), sign Baez and resign Lester would be a little comical for me.
Seager who hits lefty would be my pick, if they are going to go big on one.September 21, 2021 at 1:29 pm #172967
I can’t stand the idea of Baez as a Cardinal, i’d rather play Sosa and have a worse offense
Seager is my top choice…followed by Story…then maybe Semien if the deal can be shorter
I would say SS makes the most sense for upgrade… BUT i would add that 2b COULD be the place if we wanted to shift Edman to SS….but other than a dedicated upgrade to leadoff like a trade for Whit Merrifield I am not sure where you look
-the pessimist in me says… Chris Taylor + Waino + Lester + Garcia + McFarland with an outside chance at Pujols to appease the masses
-the optimist wants…Waino, LEster, Garcia, McF… Pujols + Story (the Arenado connection)
-hopes and dreams…Seager, Pujols, Scherzer, Waino, Garcia, McFSeptember 21, 2021 at 4:08 pm #172973CardsFanInChiTownParticipantFree
I don’t want Baez either Jager. Seager, due to being LH, would be my preference.
I do want Lester and/or Happ back on a one year deal though. Giving Oviedo, Thompson and Liberatore time in AAA to work on command, etc.
JF, Waino, Hudson, Mikolas, Lester, Happ doesn’t look to bad.
Edman, Goldy, Seager, Arenado, O’neill, Carlson, Yadi, Bader would be great too.
Any guesses as to what it would take to keep McFarland and Garcia? Would $1M/1yr get it done? McFarland might be a bit more I would think?September 21, 2021 at 4:18 pm #172974
It is also possible that we go with some combination of Edman, Sosa, and Gorman for the two middle infield spots then try to find a bigger offensive upgrade at DH.
Baez and Story don’t do much for me.
Seager’s injuries make me nervous.
Correra and Semien would be a big upgrade but very costly. Actually all of them would be very costly. Upgrades at DH and starting pitcher might be more cost efficient.
I would definitely bring Lester, McFarland, and Garcia back. Maybe on LeBLanc and Happ.September 21, 2021 at 4:51 pm #172982GACardParticipantFree
I agree Gscott. I love Seager but the injuries are way too much risk. I don’t really like Story either. I would love Semien if the market for him fell because of the other FA’s and he could be had on a 5/30 or 4/60 type deal. With his OPS at 884 and 41 home runs on the year, he could be a candidate to regress significantly at Busch though
I really don’t know what they should do anymore. I would love to add a starter but the Stromans and Scherzers might be too expensive. I’d love to address the bullpen, but past moves to figure out the bullpen in the offseason really haven’t panned out. If you look across the MLB, bullpen guys just seem to go up and down throughout their careers with the exception of a select few (See Dominic Leone for SF this year for an example of the former)
Really hope they can bring lester back for cheap. Even if he pitches to a 4.5 era he’s still a vet who knows how to eat innings
Will be a make or break type offseason for FO
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