[thejager]

interesting observations…but we will have to wait and see whether the talking heads are on point or not or if they are just finding something to talk about which is based on good introspection

what is difficult is that we may never know how effective “posturing” may be because we arent privy to the internal discussions on signings and trades very often and even when we are not to that level IMO…

maybe it will work, or maybe it isnt posturing…or maybe it is posturing and it wont work…but “knowing” seems almost impossible to prove…and i doubt anyone will be prone to speak up if they did so by being deliberately misleading to the public as a ploy or if the were enticed by the posturing they wont want to admit to that either

we just have to wait and see

for all we know we will sign HOlland and Hosmer and trade for Archer and the monetary and year amounts for Hosmer and HOlland will have been influenced by the posturing and the trade for Archer will be less than original…and no one will ever know… all that will be said woudl be…
“we saw an opportunity and our evaluations changed so as we always said we will be opportunistic..” or something of the sort….

[thejager]

he seems a lock IMO to sign a one day contract to retire a Cardinal

his “bad” last year was still pretty productive…i think he will still be of some use to the ANgels as they try to compete

i dont care what his last year says…when he comes up to the plate no pitcher wants to see him…even at 38… on a team where he is supposed to carry that team with ihis production he is a poor option now…but as a complement to other gusy he might just be a perfect old veet

sure you put the performance with the salary and it seems dumb…but that is what the ANgels signed up for when they outbid the Cardinals…but as a 4th option for production he looks like he has plenty left to give…this Angels team might be pretty fun to watch

C-Maldonado
1-Cron/Ohtani/Pujols
2-Kinsler
3-Cozart
SS-Simmons
(pretty impressive infield defense on the left side)
LF-Upton
CF-Trout
RF-Calhoun
DH-Pujols/Ohtani

I dunno that offense should be just fine…i dont know if the pitching is gonna work out but Pujols’ production shoudlnt hurt that offense IMO

[thejager]

i disagree with:
Baez over Wong…but Baez hits HRs i guess…both are good defenders
Heyward over Fowler…last year especially and that was an injured Fowler too
and maybe if you did Quintana over Weaver i think Wacha is at worse even as Hendricks it might better show the disparity
bullpen seems a lot closer as Wilson was not good as a Cub last year, and MOrrow hasnt ever closed and has 18 total saves not to mention only two last year and those are it since 2008 i think…AND last year was pretty much his first year where he wasnt being used as a starter so his pedigree as dominant reliever is basically based on one year…Strop and Duensing are solid though…i just dont see less question marks about their pen than what we have

Matheny may be worse than MAddon
but i think Maddux is better than Hickey even though i like Hickey a lot
GM…well i prefer Moz…even if i am the poster boy for crazy trades around here…you want splashes and spending money and maybe a WS thrown in as the farm system crumbles Epstein is your man…consistency even at the expense of fanfare and maybe the playoffs a few years…MOz is the guy IMO

[thejager]

Bailey in the pen is interesting…but with two no hitters under his belt he is going to get every opportunity to start and be the veteran for the rotation for the Reds

Not that the Reds would deal within the division…but i might be interested in Bailey if they ate a healthy portion of the money…or maybe they include Suarez and we could make it more appealing to them Bailey might be in need of a change of scenery and a new pitching coach like Maddux…

Suarez would be a good get IMO if possible…good defense at 3b and still the ability to help at SS…with power….and is still young…

Reds have Senzel waiting so they wouldnt necessarily be stuck for someone to play there,….and I’m thinking we could offer them something they’d want from our farm…i might even give some very good guys from the farm if they eat even more of the contract…

Bailey for less money and Suarez would definitely fill some of my wants…

Bailey is over 20 mil for the next 3 seasons…but if we could get them to eat half…and if Bailey’s health comes back as solid i wouldn’t mind kicking the tires…he may not be a world beater but if healthy he has shown the ability to be good to very good at times…he seemed to thrive when he wasnt “THE guy for their rotation…Cards could offer that I think..

taking on some potentially poor contract of Bailey would be well worth Suarez IMO….he looks primed to be solid for a while IMO

so now my trade options so far

Archer (+Colome or not)
Stroman + Osuna
Fulmer + Iglesias
Bailey + Suarez

and a new one i just thought of…
Straily + Realmuto + Ziegler + Chen’s contract
for
Wacha + DGonzalez (or a catcher prospect)

-Chen’s money is dumb and he may never be healthy, it’s a salary dump and if he every helps it’s bonus….even in this deal they may need to eat a little…but us even considering it might perk their ears up
-but getting back Straily (who is super cheap and arb until 2021)
-Ziegler is a one year eat…but potentially has help for our pen for a year
-Realmuto is helpful now in all the ways i described before, but we get him cheaper because of the money we are eating
-they get back Wacha who makes a little money, but is a savings compared to Chen

Straily is solid and at times VERY good….cheap and effective
Realmuto is good and cheap and versatile…and allows for Kelly to be moved
Ziegler coud help for a year and the money flies away
Chen is salary dump plain and simple

combine this with a move for ARcher using Kelly + Grichuk + Gomber

2018

CMart, Archer, Straily, 2 of Weaver/Waino/Mikolas
Greger,Cecil,Lyons,Brebbia,Ziegler,Tuivalala,Bowman,Gant etc.
Fowler,Pham,Carp,Ozuna,Realmuto(1b),DeJong,Yadi,Wong (with it changing for supersub Gyorko/Carp/Realmuto)
JMart,B ader, Garcia, Gyorko/Realmuto/Carp (4 man bench with no catcher thanks to Realmuto starting)

rotation looks way better…doesnt force Reyes to be a starter this year or even next and protects us from Waino going down or our kids not developing or Mikolas not succeeding
bullpen has some concern…but the loser of the rotation helps the pen and Reyes or other kids can help
bench is fun and dynamic, Realmuto super subbing with Carp and Gyorko allows the limitation of the 4 man bench to not really be a 3 man bench with a backup catcher that wont play or pinch hit)

all pipe dreams of course… but it just reinforces why you dont say “we are done” like they said last week… it makes them seem like they dont have options or arent willing to look and find creative solutions

[thejager]

I am glad Walt moved on…but he isnt the GM their anymore really anyways…when he did go …that team was spending money and signing contracts to youngsters…it ended up biting the Reds though in the end…they went all in on guys when the Reds were pushing hard a few years back and doled out contracts…but they missed their window and were stuck with good players and good but LARGE contracts and had no money to fix their other problems or sign the guys they maybe needed to re-sign

they chose Bailey, BRuce, Phillips, Votto….and had/have no moen to fix their other problems…and they didnt deal the players early enough on to get good value back… the way they messed up the Chapman deal is crazy…

[thejager]

let’s say they get ARrieta back

C-Contreras…very good
1-Rizzo…very good
2-Baez…good
3-BRyant…very good
SS-Russell…decent +
LF-Schwarber…good –
CF-Almora…decent
RF-Heyward…decent
(Zobrist)…decent –

SP- Lester…very good
SP- Arrieta…good +
SP- Quintana…good –
SP- Hendricks…good –
SP- Chatwood…decent +

bullpen seems about the same other than Morrow is good but not Davis

to me…if they add Arrieta they have a better rotation with Chatwood being better than their revolving door last year
their bullpen is a bit weaker
their lineup is about the same…i don’t think Bryant and Rizzo and Contreras can be any better than last year…they have upside if Russell, Scwharber return to form and Heyard has a good yer is always a coin flip it seems

I just dont see how they are locked into 95 wins as they are today (and that is without Arrieta or another big SP)

If we are saying turnarounds are why…then the Cardinals deserve a lot of bump because basically the whole team outside of Yadi had issues that forced them to either not play the whole year due to not being starters or due to injury or due to poor play…

The Brewers seemed to outplay themselves too..but those early wins (same as the Reds) just might have had more todo with the Cardinals playing so many guys who were really down…PEralta, BRoxton, Piscotty, Grichuk, Fowler (early), Carp (hurt), ADams in LF….we were hamstrung by several factors at almost every position

To me the gap isn’t that wide until the Cubs add a high end starter…if they do the gap i think is real…but until then i see a lot of question marks for the Cubs, just like i see for the Cardinals and the BRewers…they just have a few superstars that cloud our vision

[thejager]

Russell and Schwarber didnt exactly look like world beaters last year either…Zobrist was definitely slower and Heyward ws all over the place…Hendriks was good but not great…and Quintana was not as great as i think everyone (including me) thought he’d be…CF still seems up in the air too though Almora is intriguing

Baez and Contreras seemed to get better though…

Lester, Rizzo, Bryant all were solid and dependable

[thejager]

agreed…whether people like it or not that is the tendency for the team and the MLB

[thejager]

As for Fulmer and Iglesias…

i do think Fulmer may be a little expensive…but not in the Archer range IMO…he is coming off an injury and his pedigree of success is pretty limited…as i said i think quantity over top quality might win out on a Tigers organization that is seeming.ly trying to stockpile

as for Iglesias…he is an expensive backup…but he would give some sureness to our SS position and make us more versatile as i brought up before…throwing all our eggs in the DeJong basket for being our SS savior seems a lot like what we did with Diaz…and we got luckily bailed out by DeJong on that…the same same way we got luckily bailed out by Diaz when PErlata went down the year before…and until Diaz was given the chance we had a revolving door at SS and the whole team suffered because of it…might have been why we missed the playoffs…

the position is too important to “hope” for Yairo to be the next Diaz or DeJong…a veteran like Iglesias with as good a glove as he has would not only be good for the team as a whole but also as a good model for DeJong whom he could learn a lot from in the field…

as for Profar….i like him, and he seems like a fine guy to target…and would be fine in the same type of role i laid out for Iglesias…except i never found his defense to be all that sure… now whether he was moved around because Andrus was in his way or not he played a lot of positions other than SS…and last year at AAA he played a lot at SS but results were mixed IMO

Profar would be a fine get IMO…but i am MOSTLY concerned with our acquiring a good upside and control young-ish starting pitcher

i just think Iglesias may help with the acquisition of Fulmer as I am sure the Tigers would love to save 5-6mil or whatever he got in arbitration…

[thejager]

attacking my posting style is in no way a defense of your own…it’s just a deflection… i am allowed to respond to your questioning of my posting about your posts, so i did i did specifically and on points and not deflecting…but i am done with that and won’t post another response to to that line of discussion as it is, as has been said many times before…not on topic

[thejager]

agree Shake..

hmmm…what would my Mt Rushmore for the Cardinals be?

Hornsby, Musial, Gibson, Molina

hmmm…4 is really hard…Dean, Enos, Pujols, Ozzie, Red, Brock…. all would have cases IMO

tough as my tendency is to go with guys that changed the game… Ozzie, and Yadi changed and are the models of the modern day positions of SS and catcher IMO… Gibson got the mound lowered…Musials greatness, HOrnsby’s amazing feats…

[thejager]

I was thinking about the Tigers after considering, and then not considering Castellenos…

just like Archer…Fulmer is a good target right now IMO…not that it hasnt been discussed but i think he may be had for a quantity deal as the Tigers rebuild….add in Iglesias to be a SS option and maybe we could upgrade the offense without a huge bat and instead via more dynamic bench use…

every spot in the infield could be platooned or have multiple options
3b…Gyorko, DeJong, Carp, Garcia
SS…Iglesias, DeJong, Garcia
2b…Wong, Gyorko, Carp, Garcia
1b…Carp, JMart, Gyorko, Yadi

bench on any day would be:
Kelly, Grichuk, Garcia….with two of DeJong, Iglesias, Gyorko, Carp, JMart

would lower the possibility of us having any one or two players underperforming from having any real impact while strengthening late game hitting AND defense…as we would have a GG level defender in Iglesias to come in OR to start and not lose too much by bring in DeJong late…and Iglesias has pretty good wheels too…. not to mention IGlesias would future proof us if DeJong turned into a toad after last years big year

Fulmer + Iglesias
for?

[thejager]

it’s still spamming several threads with the same information…i dont see why i cant call it out for what it is…the argument that it contains information relevant to all of them is fine in theory but the same coudl be said about just about any information anyone posts…and if everyone went around reposting the exact same posts in every conceivable relevant thread i think everyone would get real sick of that really fast… plus you didnt just post the info… you also included YOUR opinion on it as if it was proving your point…now had you not copy and pasted it with YOUR bias thrown on it…OR had presented the same link with information about how it is relevant to the specific thread instead of just flopping it in there to prove a point…then maybe it would come across different….but you do whatever you want

[thejager]

I am unsettled and concerned…but i am far from displeased… they went as hard as anyone could to get Stanton and all his money….then they followed that up with a power move to get Ozuna

Gregerson is fine and i get it…but as closer..it seems a stretch especially when paired with Reed i think it woudl have worked… but alas…they must be REALLY high on Hicks and Helsley…

Snagging Mikolas who definitely had interest from a lot of teams i think was a really good get..he probably wont be an Ace…but i think he may be better than we hope…saying on the day of the move that he is pegged for the rotation no matter what was a big worrisome to me though…but not frustrating…just made it harder to find a way to upgrade another part of the rotation

my main concern is the level confidence put on Weaver, Waino, Flaherty, Reyes too… that is 2 parts of the rotation that are no guarantees for high level production..and the backups have zero guarantees either…i dont want it to be…but Waino coudl be done…rotation or bullpen…i love him..i own his jersey…but if he is done he is done…and slotting Flaherty into that spot is no slam dunk…

Weaver for as good as he showed is basically in his first full year in a rotation…and strength and innings may be harder to anticipate being givens…i want him to be good…but he may not be..

and with Reyes…people say…well we dont have a closer Reyes coud be dominant…i agree…but then they say the same thing about Reyes when they talk about Waino or someone else from the rotation not working out…well what is he? rotation savior or back end savior…because ven as high as everyoen is on him…he cant do two jobs…AND he had control issues before and is coming off not pitchign for a year due to injury…i cant imagine his control got better

I think Reyes is a potential answer to ONE concern…but i think we have more than one concern going on right now… to me it is three…2 rotation spots minimum…perhaps as many as 4…and at least one strong back end reliever/ if not closer….

I am not frustrated…just confused at the justifications…last year we didnt upgrade the offense because we were putting all our hope in Grichuk and PIscotty and Diaz…and areturning PEralta…and it bit us bad…the rotation and AAA saved us a lot early and often

now we have some real concerns in the bullpen and rotation and we are moving forward on hope

I love our kids…but depending on a guy coming off a year long injury, another guy who got some spot starts and was rocked, and two kids who havent sniffed the bigs (one not even AA)…seems too much to me

Reyes may have been ready to go last year, but he lost that year and all the conditioning that he needed…and no one saw that coming…you have to expect at this point we will lose someone else…if that is CMArt (knock on wood)…what woudl we do? last year we were ok because we had Lynn, and even Waino and Leake to depend on when we needed stability…now we have? Wacha? a big question mark Waino? and a guy coming from Japan to lean on…

that leaves me unsettled…that leaves me WANTING a guy like ARcher who coudl shoulder the concerns over the rotation and not force any of the big question marks into havign the weight of the teams success in 2018 on their shoulders…

we are setting Reyes up to get injured again by putting all this hope on him publicly…same goes for Hicks and Helsley…i wouldn’t be surprised to see them all have arm issues this year as they are labeled the solutions we did not go invest outside the organization to solve

I am very curious as to how the organization can be so calm when 4/5th of the rotation have big question marks…and our new closer had a bad last year and lost the closing job the year before…

IMO…fine..you dont want to throw money at HOsmer or Moose…you believe in the offensive upgrade from Ozuna and the last year being an outlier for several of the players in the field…

and i am fine with not getting into a bidding war over older starting pitchers like Darvish and Arrieta…and not caving to Lynn or Cobb….i am fine with that…

but Archer is there for the taking…and we have plenty of prospects to get a deal like that done…there is no prospect we coudlnt live without and wouldnt have exciting prospects sitting behind them…even Reyes and KElly…

i am not upset..i am confused at where the confidence in so many unknowns is coming from…

[thejager]

stop spamming GScott

to me…just like last offseason…my main want is an Ace-ish level SP to pair with CMart…i wanted Quintana and Abreu last year because of his good contract..and Abreu to fix the lineup…

this year i want Archer…i’d like him WITH Colome…but Id be happy with him alone…Ozuna upgrades the offense enough i guess…

a future rotation of CMart, Archer, Reyes, Weaver for the next 4 years…is pretty impressive has high upside and cost effective…

pair that with another decent RP move from the list above liek Albers, Norris, Watson etc. and the team starts to look a lot better

i still dont like our SS depth…if DeJong falls off a cliff perfromance or injury related and we are stuck scrambling for a starting SS liek we were 2 years ago…i dont liek how that woudl send ripples through the team.. .Greg just isnt a starter it seems, and Munoz is far fro ma lock for being ready to plug and play… i know many dont seem to be bothered by this…i accept it’s my opinion

[thejager]

can you stop spamming that link in every thread Gscott?

also…
Pads I agree

I think the Cards and Cubs are close as of today…until the cubs go out and get an Ace level SP

I think the Brews and Reds are closer than the Cards and BRewers…Brewers IMO overperformed a lot last year…pair with underperforming Cardinals and boom 2nd place for them…they add a top end SP and that changes..Cardinasl were in the race for 1st and 2nd going into the last week and weekend last year…

I think the Reds are one good SP away from a challenging team for 2nd…they seem to have identified their young starters they want to put in the rotation….the back end of the bullpen is solid…though another arm would help…and their offense is pretty amazing…and they still have young high quality hitters about ready…a “good” year out of Bailey and a full year out of Desclefani and that rotation isnt hard to like…CAstillo, Stephenson, Garrett, MAhle all very nice…FInnegan, Rookie Davis, Romano arent bad fillers either

the Bucs…seem like they are selling but have good young players..

[thejager]

I totally see your points PAds…and i cant disagree with that point of view

but with a low level farm and a terrible last year…they snagged two pretty good veterans to pair with their other pairs and all they really lost was Arroyo (IMO)

Posey
Cutch
Longoria
Crawford
Panik
Belt
Pence
Parker

Panik and Crawford had issues last year but both have shown they can be good… Belt seems an enigma but capable of being good…Pence is old but scrappy and perhaps healthy this year…they have limited help from the minors but it’s not a bad lineup… it’s older but not bad

Bumgarner, Cueto, Samaradjia, Beede, Stratton… it’s not “terrible” and at least has high end guys who have shown they can be good

Melancon indeed is a problem…but they do have younger guys behind him like, Blach, Strickland who have good stuff…amd Dyson is already there and can close…

Im not saying their team is good…but they added two pieces that shouldnt hurt them…it’s a bounceback type team with name recognition…will it work? i dont know…but Cutch and Longo are pretty good gets for a team that needed solid guys to put around Posey

[thejager]

good for you Nyq…spit your hate and antagonistic behavior all you want…but i dont agree with you and you arent right…

and maybe neither am I…but you dont get to “win” just because you yell and scream your opinion

Archer IS that good…and is a difference maker right now…

Kelly has shown ZERO to prove he is going to be a star in any way and even his current role (and role for the next 3 years whether you like it or not)is not that of a difference maker… Archer has shown multiple years of being an Ace in the AL East and all their lineups while at the same time being durable…

i am happy i get to know immediately whether i need to partake in a conversation with someone or not based on the way they choose to start a conversation… you start with antagonism and spite and hate… makes it easy to not participate…

[thejager]

I remember a couple Spring Trainings ago and Pham was absolutely tearing it up…and i was at the game where he in left field went after a ball and messed up his quad…which basically messed him up for the year… it was tough because i think he had turned a major corner going into that spring training and then he had to start it all over again

even in the minors it seems he has had a combination of bad luck and bad genes…(with his eyes)….but when he is healthy he is rock solid…

I am not sure he will be 30/30…but i just dont see him falling off the cliff unless he is injured…

my main worry is that Pham, DeJong, Weaver…all of them now have shown the league what they have and the league will adjust as much as they will try to not have their play torn apart… staying healthy and conditioning is important and all…but you have to adjust because there are rooms of people in every organization out there trying to find holes in your game to take advantage of

[thejager]

that’s pretty terrible Nyq… he has been impressive for many years… he is a VERY good if not HOF level player who has been important in getting TWO WS rings for the Cardinals..

he improved his hitting dramatically from what people had forecasted for him…he has been a workhorse and pretty injury free for the most part and done nothign but good things for the team

also..it’s not like he has gotten worse… he had a relatively down year two years ago but then followed it up with an amazing year last year both offensively and defensively..

he is a MLB HOFer IMO and a Cardinals HOFer…and we are lucky to have been able to watch him play at the beginning and the last two years as well

there is no other way to read your remarks other than as straight up biased hate…makes me sick

[thejager]

i have to agree about them doing a lot with very little

Cutch and Longoria without giving up Ramos and only really losing Arroyo
they were a bottom level farm and they still are…except now they have 2 All Star level guys on the MLB team

Their rotation could still be very good and Melancon at the back end may be due for a bounceback year

We have a top farm (at least top 3rd) we got Ozuna…and kudos to us for doing that, truly

but we dont have a veteran rotation with a MAdison Bumgarner at the top followed by cueto and Samardjia types after…and we dont have a bounceback elite closer like Melancon …we have a bounce back setup guy IMO…

now we do have better youngster ready to step up…but we coudl still use another solid bat and solid arm for the rotation

IMO..going into the season with “hope” for 1 of the three main categories of the team is fine (offense, rotation, bullpen)…but two or maybe even arguing three of them all with big “hope” attached is not smart

we hit each point with Gregerson ,Ozuna and Mikolas…but Mikolas and Gregerson are far from sure things…and the offense could be argued needs more than just one bat to make it formidable (i am not saying we need TWO Ozuna level guys either, just another solid bat would make all the difference)

a move to fortify just one of the three spots would be what we need…IMO two with a small third woudl be perfect

trade for Archer
Kelly + Grichuk + Gomber + DGonzlaez

trade for Realmuto (and take Ziegler)
Wacha + Tuivalala + Hudson + JeremyMartinez

sign Albers (or another vet FA RP)

Archer is obvious and takes the Wacha hole and fills it with a much more sure and higher end arm…lots of control worth the prospects

Realmuto starts at 1b and pushes Carp/Gyorko to super sub (or maybe adds to it in a triple headed monster of super subs) and is the backup catcher allowing for 4 man bench, he is a solid bat good average and better protects us from a Yadi meltdown than Kelly at this point and is still controlled for along while..AND we still have Knizner anyways

Ziegler is a wait and see guy, but at worse is a situational use guy or you just release him

Albers is a quality vet for the pen to help the new kids adjust (especially with his background going from starting to relieving)

Fowler, Pham, Ozuna, DeJong, Realmuto/Carp, Yadi, Gyorko/Carp, Wong
Cmart, Archer, Weaver, Waino, Mikolas… Reyes and FLaherty and Hudson still looming
Greger, Albers, Lyons, Cecil, Brebbia, Bowman, Gant, Ziegler… Reyes/Hudson/Hicks/Helsley etc etc
Bader, Garcia, JMArt, Carp/Gyorko/Realmuto

To me…this team is versatile, still young, still has good depth in minors, still has good payroll flex, and most important for me…is the quality of the bench and amount of options in the pen and rotation…all 4 guys on the bench (though Garcia may be pushing it) could be starting…gives us flex that even 3 poor performance starters or injuries won’t sink us…(SS would be a problem though IMO)

the bullpen would have plenty of options for rotating in young players while at the same time have some solid veterans with backend experience who should have no ego about being moved around in their role based on their performance

the rotation even has quality youngsters waiting

you move Kelly…but you get Realmuto and still have Knizner
you move Hudson, Wacha, JFernandez…but you get ARcher…and still have Reyes, Flaherty
you move Grichuk and Tuivalala…but that frees up movement but you have Bader and ONeill and AdGarcia…
AND you move Tuivalala who cant be sent down to the minors anymore AND still have Hicks, Helsley
etc….not to mention you add Ziegler and Albers

the farm is still solid, you have multiple future catching and starting options and you added an Ace

[thejager]

very interesting…it felt like that was a deal that was close to happening…

makes me still feel hopeful for an ARcher and Colome..or just Archer or Colome deal still happening…

[thejager]

i dunno…23 million is a record for arbitration…it wouldnt surprise me if some teams were holding out for a non-record breaking number

[thejager]

That’s a good point

PErhaps everyone has been waiting to know what to throw at the Jays once his actual dollar amount got determined

[thejager]

CC…thanks… you are right about Gant not being the only option…i only used him because he seemed to get that time on the big league club last year…making me think that is his role now

but you are right the fall off might not be as great should we go to another choice as you mentioned

[Author]

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