Do the Cardinals need to be Luhnowed

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This topic contains 39 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by Avatar PadsFS 1 year, 6 months ago.

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  • #42070
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    thejager
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    i disagree with:
    Baez over Wong…but Baez hits HRs i guess…both are good defenders
    Heyward over Fowler…last year especially and that was an injured Fowler too
    and maybe if you did Quintana over Weaver i think Wacha is at worse even as Hendricks it might better show the disparity
    bullpen seems a lot closer as Wilson was not good as a Cub last year, and MOrrow hasnt ever closed and has 18 total saves not to mention only two last year and those are it since 2008 i think…AND last year was pretty much his first year where he wasnt being used as a starter so his pedigree as dominant reliever is basically based on one year…Strop and Duensing are solid though…i just dont see less question marks about their pen than what we have

    Matheny may be worse than MAddon
    but i think Maddux is better than Hickey even though i like Hickey a lot
    GM…well i prefer Moz…even if i am the poster boy for crazy trades around here…you want splashes and spending money and maybe a WS thrown in as the farm system crumbles Epstein is your man…consistency even at the expense of fanfare and maybe the playoffs a few years…MOz is the guy IMO

    #42072
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    gscottar
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    Just my personal opinion Brian. I should have stated that in the post.

    #42073
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    Onyxgem
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    I disagree Epstein >>>> MO and it is not even close, only thing better MO is at is feeding a great line of BS to the Cards fans.

    #42075
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    gscottar
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    VEB did a more detailed comparison between the two teams using analytics and concluded we were only four games behind. I would consider that to be generous.

    https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/st-louis-cardinals-sabermetrics-analysis/2018/1/16/16889268/cardinals-cubs-rivalry-projections-2018

    #42079
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    thejager
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    true…though that was projections…

    how accurate have those been the last couple years? feel free to make your own decisions on their accuracy…but to me the trend seems to be…that it is hard to make an forecast that are accurate…so using them as proof of equality or inequality seems a stretch at best

    2016
    https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2017/1/8/14189138/pecota-zips-steamer-marcel-projection-systems-graded

    2017

    Evaluating the 2017 Predictions & Projections

    #42081
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    Brianpnoonan
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    No.

    They need some more dombrowski (not much, some).

    They’ve got talent. They’ve got trade pieces. They don’t have the stones to go get great players.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by Avatar Brianpnoonan.
    #42083
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    mudville
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    I’m pretty sure its too early to compare MO to Epstein. Lets make that judgement in another year or two when the Cubs’ star players are getting to be free agents, and their farm system doesn’t have much to support the big club. I get the distinct impression that the Cubs’ ownership does not want to go over he luxury tax threshold.

    #42092
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    Bottom line, Epstein has three rings in 15 years. Mo has one in 10 years. However, Theo has also enjoyed huge payrolls and made a lot of mistakes (mostly with Boston) that were absorbed, ones the Cards, with less resources, would not have been able to recover from.

    #42102
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    Brianpnoonan
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    That doesnt lessen him… People make mistakes.

    Sometimes not trying is the mistake. Especially when you have stagnated a bit (or a lot).

    #42103
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    Mistakes costing over a quarter of a billion dollars, according to Forbes, who labeled him the most overrated executive of the decade.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomvanriper/2012/08/27/red-sox-were-left-in-disarray-by-theo-espstein/#755be87d417e

    #42108
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    Brianpnoonan
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    He broke two century long curses and his “mistakes” didn’t cost the red sox even half a decade.

    Rather hard to be overrated.

    #42116
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    forsch31
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    Deep pockets can cover up many mistakes. I don’t see where the Cardinals could afford to have those kind of mistakes. The Cubs and Red Sox can.

    #42132
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    gscottar
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    I think the Cardinals can afford more than we are led to believe. They just choose not to.

    #42135
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    mudville
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    But who wants to be stuck in a mistake they made for years and years? Think about the Red Sox and Price. They’re paying him $31M AVV for the next five years, and he might be spending that time in the bullpen. Then, there’s Heyward. Yikes.

    #42139
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    PadsFS
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    I was discussing the Cubs’ new hitting coach with a Cubs’ homer who said Davis is going to be a really great hitting coach, look what he did with the Red Sox!

    It’s a proven approach for Davis, who served as the Red Sox’s hitting coach for the past three season. In that time, Boston led the league in runs and pitches per plate appearance. The Red Sox also posted an on-base percentage of .334, which was tied for tops in baseball, and was second with a .268 batting average in three years under Davis’ watch.

    Yet the Red Sox spent $368.0M on salary on just position players over those three years, or $122.6M. They also had the #1 farm system in baseball in 2013, which produced Bogaerts, Benintendi, Betts, Bradley, etc.

    To tack on to that point and tie in with what yall are saying, they wasted $34.5M of that $368.0M on Napoli, Victorio, and Craig in 2015, $42.5M of that in 2016 on Sandoval, Castillo, Craig, and Hill, and $38.5M of that in 2017 on Castillo, Craig, and Sandoval.

    They are on track for blowing $29.0M already in salary for 2018 AND 2019 on Sandoval and Castillo alone. I can’t imagine the angst that Cardinals’ management would feel if they did similar deals (one of which was ironically theirs that they shoved off on Boston ~ Allen Craig) Pedroia is shaping up to be a dead weight contract too, although that one is understandable as it’s similar to Molina’s legacy deal.

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