Hosmer/Moustakas free agents thread

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  • #40216
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Seems overdue to have a separate thread on the pair of Royals infield free agents.

    Heyman wrote about them this morning, but his article says nothing new at all. Looks like he was on deadline and threw this together in a hurry.

    https://www.fanragsports.com/heyman-cardinals-may-not-be-done-with-big-moves-yet/

    #40219
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Just…no. Neither is an upgrade over what is currently on the roster. Unless they come cheap, I see no reason to waste the money.

    #40220
    AvatarNJ315
    Participant

    Yes. You need to waste money to make this team appealing to free agents. You need one of these two or Donaldson. and they are an upgrade any one of them.

    #40222
    Avatargscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Of the two I think Hosmer is the better option for the Cards. I would hate to see an extreme overpay but 5 years $100M would be my limit.

    #40224
    AvatarNJ315
    Participant

    We need to overpay if necessary.

    #40228
    Avatargscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Why?

    We overpaid with Fowler, Leake, and Cecil. Was that helpful?

    #40231
    AvatarNJ315
    Participant

    They need to make better investments. Get younger and more appealing to future free agents. Leake and Fowler were panic moves thinking they needed to do something to compete on each of those years. Cecil I don’t know what that was. Overpay for Hosmer and overpay for Ozuna but stay away from the 32 or older crowd. Molina’s extension another idiotic move.

    #40232
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
    Participant

    Free

    Hosmer would be the only maybe and only then if theyre willing to deal fowler and eventually carpenter when people get tired of him in the outfield.

    Moustakas doesnt help us. Hosmer would at least be a pair of small upgrades (carpenter’s bat is better than fowler and they both play bad d).

    I dont see it. It requires our front office to be fluid in their mindset and they’ve more than proven they don’t like doing that.

    #40234
    AvatarOnyxgem
    Participant

    Free

    fowler >> CArp in the outfield end of story

    #40235
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
    Participant

    Free

    Defensively? Duh. Carp would be awful. Fowler is still very bad however.

    Overall? Carp can hit a ton more.

    The fact that I can even make an argument here flat screams we need to dump fowler asap.

    The fact that I HAVE an argument really makes thing look as terrible as they are.

    #40237
    AvatarOnyxgem
    Participant

    Free

    the fact that you want carp in the OF shows your utter hatred for Fowler has clouded your mind so badly you are making terrible decisions on who you put in the OF like the FO did last year with ADAMS!

    #40240
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
    Participant

    Free

    I dont hate fowler.

    I hate that we signed him to a ridiculous contract he has no prayer of living up to…

    And I hate that our roster cannot move on until he is gone.

    I will be very glad to be able to stop pointing out how much more we could have if he was not in our team.

    #40242
    thejagerthejager
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    If your satisfaction with the team and it’s goals and accomplishments rests in moving Fowler i think you might be in for some disappointment

    it won’t happen, there has been zero indication of it happening outside someone hypothesizing a trade to the Jays and the very early offseason mumblings saying no one is safe outside Molina…

    and before you an type “Well what about Leake?” well what about him? we had to eat money just to move him…and whether you like him or not…take off 5 million per year of the contract or whatever it will take to move him and you start have a bargain player even with his injured foot and “poor” defense… moving him is a bad business move considering his effectiveness last year even with the poor play… giving that bargain level production to another team not only helps THAT team more than ours but because of that you are hurting our team by putting production into the hands of opponents

    I dont like the length of the contract I dont like the money on it either… but making ultimatums about the teams future based on the movement of one player seems pretty pigeon holed

    there is ZERO way to prove the team would be better without him

    #40245
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
    Participant

    Paid - Monthly

    Instead of wasting money on guys we dont need or overpaying, I think we would have a much better chance to attract top free agents if we actually gave that money to the guys we actually want!

    #40247
    AvatarNJ315
    Participant

    and who do they want?

    #40248
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
    Participant

    Free

    11 million for 2.2 WAR (fowlers career average) isn’t a bargain.

    It isnt a ripoff, but nowhere near a bargain.

    You put that 11 million toward a real difference maker and you will get exactly that.

    If someone else pays that 11 million, we are better off on so many levels it is unreal.

    Paying 16.5 million for 2.2 WAR is asinine. Paying five or so toward fowler and 35 for machado where we have the ability to deal dejong and carpenter for an outfield solution that would make it more payroll neutral?

    Gosh… Think we’d be better off?

    Here’s a hint : the answer is VERY clearly yes. WAR value is exponential and machado is a beast.

    I would make the same argument for trout or harper or kershaw. Paying for higher WAR wins. Paying for mediocrity cedes the division to the cubs which we are supposedly not doing.

    If you are going to go after players and you have limited resources they HAVE to be worth it.

    Stanton was. Machado is. I can think of about ten or twelve players that are — a lot of which are available.

    At some point if you want to win, you have to stop acting like fowler is a great player and accept we made a mistake and move on.

    #40250
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
    Participant

    Paid - Monthly

    “And who do they want?” Probably the same free agents you think we might attract by overpaying on other players! 🙂

    #40251
    AvatarNJ315
    Participant

    You sign Machado 10 yrs 400Million. Then you better be ready for the luxury tax. Then what if Machado the WAR beast turns into Fowler after getting the contract? I don’t care who the player is you there is a risk he won’t be great but just good.

    #40252
    Avatar14NyquisT
    Participant

    Fowler needs to be moved before this team can go forward. A waste of money and a position. We have prospects that would play better just because they’ll be trying harder.

    #40256
    AvatarNJ315
    Participant

    I was thinking more along the lines of 2nd tier free agents. Right now not even those want to come here. Unless we produce a monster like Pujols they will never sign a top tier free agent. So you get lucky and draft an Altuve, Correa, Machado, Harper, Trout etc. What you can’t do is think that the Carps, Gyorkos, Wongs, Grichuks, etc are good enough. There is layer of players between those two groups. Ozuna is a good start now let’s give him a partner to work with.

    #40258
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
    Participant

    Paid - Monthly

    2nd tier guys are the easiest to attract with a few extra million. That is why it makes no sense to me to deplete your budget by spending extra on some guys in order to attract others.

    #40263
    AvatarNJ315
    Participant

    Then forget it because no top tier free agent will come here because they won’t give them the monster contract they will get. The will not tie most of their money on one player period. So hopefully they will draft the next Pujols soon.

    #40264
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
    Participant

    Free

    Carioca, you put your money where you can get excess value for the money.

    The value is at the low end (prospects) and high end (superstars).

    Exponential value makes middling guys like fowler wastes of money every time.

    #40266
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
    Participant

    Free

    … Which by the way eliminates moustakas and hosmer from my “want” list… Mostly. Hosmer is dependent on fowler.

    #40267
    Avataratripleshyofthecycle
    Participant

    Free

    Hosmer is dependent on fowler.

    So, dump the “2.2 WAR” player so you can sign the 1.4 WAR player (same method used to calculate Hosmer as you used to calculate Fowler)?

    Makes sense.

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