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This would allow them to pencil in the starters for next year as Gray, Pallante, Liberatore, Leahy, and McGreevy with Mathews on deck. Alluring indeed.
Ratsbuddy
Just saw something on Facebook that said DeWitt is going to open the coffers this off-season.
Assume it’s fake news.
I’ll believe it when I see it.
I would strongly recommend not getting any news off of Facebook unless it’s from an account you follow like Brian or Goold. They purposely put misleading info out to get engagement.
I get that, but he also basically lives in Anaheim. His house is 15 minutes from the ballpark in Newport Beach/Lake Forest. I think his fortress of solitude workshop is in Anaheim too.
I’d like to see them use our surplus role player types (Donovan and Nootbaar perhaps) to go after Jose Soriano from the Angels. He’s a good young innings-eater type that would help solidify the rotation now and still be around in 3 years. The Angels certainly need pitching, but I could see them biting on a deal for a guy like Donovan.
Another trade we could do would be Jorge Soler for Arenado. That trade gets us the elusive RH OF bat (even if he’s not good anymore), but the trade would shed some of Arenado’s salary without being a total loss. Arenado would be an upgrade for them at 3B.
I’ve been impressed with Liberatore this month. I think he was cooked a few weeks ago after the high workload.
ZTR
I don’t know that Arenado WILL be gone but he should be unless he just hates to win.
His dumb ass could be playing in Houston right now instead of once again playing out the string in another non-playoff season.
Why is he a dumbass for wanting to stay in St. Louis?
blingboy
Some say Jordan is the next Luken Baker. I have no idea. I’d like to see him and Curtis Taylor in ML camp, at least for a bit. So they bump some other 4A types, wheel spinners and hospital cases, so what. Tired of the annual Mo tactic of hiring a journeyman scrap heap guy with a ML camp invite attached, while in house strong performers don’t get the bone.
Baker was at A+ ball at 22 years old. That’s a big difference. He hit AAA full-time in his age-25 season. Plus Baker has 5″ in height and 80 some lbs on Jordan.
mudville
But I hate seeing him throw the ball to second base to try to stop at steal.Perhaps this is due to his elbow pain, which the surgery may fix? He had solid CS% numbers in the minors until 2022-2024. Hard to say the way he was jerked around and injured in that timeframe.
I don’t see them trading Gorman yet. He can be the backup at all 4 infield spots next year (shifting Wetherholt from 2B to SS) and DH. It doesn’t hurt anything to keep him and he isn’t going to get a good return in a trade now.
Like Donovan, I can see them moving Nootbaar due to closeness to free agency. (It’s the old Tampa Bay way too)
stlcard25
I would rather trade Donovan as I think he has a better shot to bring back a pitcher of value. A right handed OF bat wouldn’t be too expensive to acquire on the FA market
I agree. Donovan is also going to get a little expensive too as he is hitting his second arbitration year. I think the India-Singer / Bader-Montgomery trades are good models to look for in a trade.
gscottar
I wouldn’t mind an Arenado/Gorman platoon but otherwise they really don’t fit together on this roster. One of them needs to go. I think 2B is going to be Weatherholt. DH is occupied with Herrera and Burly. There is no other place for Gorman to play. If we can’t move Nado don’t you try to move Gorman for a pitching prospect?
Gorman should be able to take on the super-sub role and get 400-500 at-bats. He can sub for just about everyone on the team if they move people around properly. We could use Donovan in a similar fashion, but I’d prefer that he is given a regular role.
stlcard25
Participant
why is Wetherholt not suited for 3B?He hasn’t been playing 3B in the minors for long. Do we really want another guy learning a new position on the fly at the big league level?
Yeah this pretty much. I would rather he play either SS or 2B and just stay at those two if possible.
During the draft, some experts said he might not be a shortstop due to his arm strength. I haven’t noticed that though since he’s been with STL, certainly not for a SS, but he hasn’t played much 3B either. He played 3B as a freshman in college, 2B as a sophomore, and SS as a junior.
gscottar
Thanks for the feedback on Gray. One thing to keep in mind is that I believe the entire $40M remaining for Sonny would technically count towards 2026 even the $5M looks like it counts toward 2027. I recently had this discussion with the guy who runs the Cot’s site and he convinced me that is how teams operate.
If they could trade Gray, I would assume they would kick in $5M for the buyout. Likely $15-20M. But again. I don’t see the point. We don’t have the starters to push him out and DeWitt isn’t going to use the ‘saved’ salary to sign any additional free agents. Just eating contracts to play barely-average ‘young’ players doesn’t make sense to me.
Arenado is probably a 1.5-2.0 WAR player in 2026. I don’t see Gorman doing any better. Arenado has been better than him this year WAR-wise, even with his horrid year at 1.0 WAR. I wouldn’t give up on Gorman, but he needs to prove it and not be handed the position.
Alternatively, maybe you go with some combo of Wetherholt, Winn, or Donovan in the infield, which opens LF for Herrera, Burleson, or Nootbaar. The 2nd guy gets RF, and the 3rd guys gets DH.
These aren’t slam dunk options either – Nootbaar: 1.8, Burleson: 1.7 WAR, Herrera: 1.6 (Herrera is a bit higher on Fangraphs) Also none of the infielders mentioned are really suited for 3B.
I just don’t see the value in pushing Arenado out since it would be a DFA at this point, not a trade.
Brian Walton
Competitive for what? The World Series? The Division? The last Wild Card? That is quite a spectrum.
World Series. Certainly winning the division. 4 years is plenty for a downswing/rebuild. I would say shooting for that 90-95 win roster is the goal.
They actually have the players in place right now where we, positionally, are set for 2027 as a lot of guys will be under contract and in the prime or starting their prime years. I feel really good about our roster ‘floor’ offensively and defensively.
So it will be all about setting up the pitching for 2027.
I think I saw Wainwright post on twitter to dgoold that of the top 10 teams in BA, 8 are playoff teams. I would like to see the average BA/OBP of those teams, as that is what we are striving for.
Just looking at the names, some veteran free agent relievers that I like are Michael Kopech and Tommy Kahnle from the right side and Gregory Soto from the left.
On the flip side, Arenado, with 2yr/$37M remaining, is valued at -$31.0M.
Gscott – What are Gray and Contreras valued at?
gscottar
I am fine with them keeping Matz for the remainder of the year because the longer we stay in contention the less reason there will be to be a seller. I don’t think is much of a chance Matz is brought back in 2026 though.
I’ve certainly warmed to the idea of picking Matz up in free agency after the year. He’s done well for the Red Sox, unlike Helsley and Maton for their teams.
We also seem to really need a LH reliever for next year so why not one we are familiar with?
Thompson, King, and Naughton are likely gone. Rom can’t be counted on. Mathews and Liberatore are starters. Mautz and Hjerpe need to pitch in AAA first. Maybe Veneziano can be the 2nd lefty also.
The easy solution is to put Donovan Herrera Nootbaar Gorman and Burleson in the outfield and/or at DH. Trade the two you like least.
For me, that’s Nootbaar and Burleson.
Start Walker in AAA and let Wetherholt ease in to the majors at his most comfortable position.
Arenado at 3B thru the contract.
I really think the idea of playing your young star prospect out of position in the majors is one of the dumber things we tend to do.
