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It would definitely set us back. Five years probably not.
Flaherty will be good, dunno about great. Kelly will be very good and imo trading him is insane. One injury and yadi doesnt get his job back. Catcher is the one position the backup should play 60-70 games per year. Weaver is the same as flaherty to me. Very similar to wacha minus the injury fears.
… But once again we simply have too many pitchers. What’s the difference in practicality between a 3 and a 4? Not much. A 2 and a 3? More but not much.
I dont know where the trades stop and start. They will be necessary. I wouldnt touch that one though.
Agreed believe it or not.
Btw 2.2 WAR in center is less in left or right. 1.5-1.8 or so… Or barely better than grichuk was last year.
… Which by the way eliminates moustakas and hosmer from my “want” list… Mostly. Hosmer is dependent on fowler.
Carioca, you put your money where you can get excess value for the money.
The value is at the low end (prospects) and high end (superstars).
Exponential value makes middling guys like fowler wastes of money every time.
11 million for 2.2 WAR (fowlers career average) isn’t a bargain.
It isnt a ripoff, but nowhere near a bargain.
You put that 11 million toward a real difference maker and you will get exactly that.
If someone else pays that 11 million, we are better off on so many levels it is unreal.
Paying 16.5 million for 2.2 WAR is asinine. Paying five or so toward fowler and 35 for machado where we have the ability to deal dejong and carpenter for an outfield solution that would make it more payroll neutral?
Gosh… Think we’d be better off?
Here’s a hint : the answer is VERY clearly yes. WAR value is exponential and machado is a beast.
I would make the same argument for trout or harper or kershaw. Paying for higher WAR wins. Paying for mediocrity cedes the division to the cubs which we are supposedly not doing.
If you are going to go after players and you have limited resources they HAVE to be worth it.
Stanton was. Machado is. I can think of about ten or twelve players that are — a lot of which are available.
At some point if you want to win, you have to stop acting like fowler is a great player and accept we made a mistake and move on.
I dont hate fowler.
I hate that we signed him to a ridiculous contract he has no prayer of living up to…
And I hate that our roster cannot move on until he is gone.
I will be very glad to be able to stop pointing out how much more we could have if he was not in our team.
Defensively? Duh. Carp would be awful. Fowler is still very bad however.
Overall? Carp can hit a ton more.
The fact that I can even make an argument here flat screams we need to dump fowler asap.
The fact that I HAVE an argument really makes thing look as terrible as they are.
Hosmer would be the only maybe and only then if theyre willing to deal fowler and eventually carpenter when people get tired of him in the outfield.
Moustakas doesnt help us. Hosmer would at least be a pair of small upgrades (carpenter’s bat is better than fowler and they both play bad d).
I dont see it. It requires our front office to be fluid in their mindset and they’ve more than proven they don’t like doing that.
It needs to be said – fowler is as bad defensively in the outfield as carpenter (who is average at 1b) is at other positions.
He is just about (not quite) matt holiday bad in the outfield is what is being said and not being made clear with numbers most people dont understand. And he doesnt hit like holiday in his prime or even close.
Whether that is from lack of effort or what it doesnt really matter on paper.
The reason I am so adamant to dump him … God there’s so many I cant count. We are overpaying for mediocrity and it was easily apparent well before we signed him.
We gave leake away. Fowler is doable.
Giving fowler away means the other team takes the contract.
I never said releasing.
I have offered so many ways to accomplish having fowler gone I lost count.
He isnt worthless. Just worthless to us. He gives us less than nothing that we cant get cheaper or better elsewhere
…and once again. I never said carpenter was a good option. I said fowler was a horrible one. Carpenter would give us the same production (yes including bad defense) for less money. There is nothing more to it.
It isnt my fault fowler isnt worth his contract. It isnt his either. That doesnt mean you hold onto him thinking by some miracle he won’t suck.
You dump the albatross and put the money into a real difference maker.
I never said it was a good option. I said it was better than fowler.
When you can give a player away and your team is better off, arguing that someone else sucks too is a crappy argument.
… So is fowler. Carpenter hits more and has a better contract situation by far.
And he has been here his whole career.
Stashing a bat in left happens. Fowler isnt a good enough bat to do it. Carpenter isnt really either but is a better choice.
Carpenter in left is infinitely smarter than fowler in left with that contract.
I never said it was smart I said keeping fowler was stupid.
Just because that’s what will happen doesnt make it right or even remotely smart.
Trade wong for a long term left fielder who can play defense or a closer and put gyorko at second if thats the case.
It wont he’s been downward trending for years. Might stay the same though. he needs to hit a lot more to be valuable in left.
I just hope we arent done whether it is hosmer, donaldson, or whoever. We needed at least three big upgrades before the offseason started. We have gotten one.
Knowing what I know about tewes? He was a second round or so talent that was a friday night guy (college ace) at wichita state before he blew out his elbow. He throws mid 90s when healthy.
Dont be shocked if he jumps into our top ten next fall is all I will say. He might not… But we stole him where we got him. He was too low at 29 but understandable given everything involved. Either way we will see what we have this year for sure.
Stashing a bat in left happens. And fowler isnt exactly good defensively.
Carpenter’s contract isnt bad. Fowler s is moronic. Which would you keep without even taking into account that carp has been here a while and is homegrown?
If you sign hosmer you have to trade carpenter or fowler and put the other in left. Probably Fowler.
I want to do things like that but the front office isnt exactly known for it.
A few years back I talked with a junior giants exec randomly. Their philosophy is to go after veterans who produce. It is what it is. Longoria is probably better than their alternatives and if he bounced back they should be able to flip him at the deadline.
Their farm is effectively worthless. Flipping that into a guy who might get real talent in july isnt the worst idea I’ve ever seen.
Ss depth is thin? In what world?
Dejong
Garcia
Munoz
SosaAll in aaa or higher. That’s pretty darn deep. You could argue sosa and Munoz need aaa time but still… They’re age appropriate at their levels and fairly talented. They wouldnt be perfect choices but munoz specifically could give us an option imo… he already did most of a year at aaa.
