Manny Machado thread

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  • #39354
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    The Orioles have put Manny Machado on the trade block, according to Ken Rosenthal. Further, he wants to return to shortstop.

    However, the Cards may not be interested in a one-year gamble that the player will stay afterward, per Goold.

    https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cards-eager-to-turn-two-excess-outfielders-into-one-impactful/article_bec1e03a-8e16-57c4-9c93-083bea2ed12a.html

    On the related topic, I ran a twitter search for an example of any player who signed an extension with his new team IMMEDIATE with the trade. Update: We found three so far. Johan Santana with the Mets in 2008, Roy Halladay with the Phillies a year later and R.A Dickey in 2012.

    Many others signed extensions a few months later after the trade, but there is no evidence there was a pre-agreement. And as we have seen recently, St. Louis is no longer a preferred destination for many players.

    So, acquiring Machado and expecting an extension as part of the trade is probably not realistic. (Though Baltimore might want to offer a negotiating window in order to try to get more from him in trade. No way to know if they want to bother with that. A lot would depend on Machado’s signing mindset. If he is determined to test free agency, all bets would probably be off. It does seem pretty clear he isn’t going to re-sign with Baltimore, at least.)

    #39359
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

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    Nightengale confirms Cardinals interest.

    The #STLCards also among the teams interested in #Orioles 3B Manny Machado, who wants to move back to SS if he stays in Baltimore. The Orioles now more inclined to move him, but no one can predict what owner Peter Angelos will ultimately decide

    https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/940659146243833856

    #39360
    RatsbuddyRatsbuddy
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    I thought Machado was pretty much a gold glover at 3B. Why does he want to move to SS. Is there any way the Cards let him play SS for them?

    #39361
    AvatarNJ315
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    He is a SS the Orioles moved him because they JJ Hardy at short.

    #39362
    AvatarOnyxgem
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    I would be ok giving up alot to give him if we could also sign him to a contract before the trade goes through with the cash we were going to give Stanton.

    #39363
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
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    you deal dejong as part of the deal and don’t bat an eye… or you deal dejong for an outfield upgrade if they want something else, doesn’t really matter.

    #39366
    Avatargscottar
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    Why would you deal DeJong? Move him to 3B. I’d much rather have him than Gyroko.

    There other players to send to Baltimore.

    #39368
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
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    Sell high on value isnt the worst reason to make a trade. Virtually ever.

    Fact is it is a pretty good one.

    Im fine either way but dejong is definitely a candidate for that type of trade. Someone compared him to soriano a while back… Not the worst comparison.

    That type of player is an mvp one year and grichuk the next… Which is why selling high makes way too much sense.

    #39375
    AvatarBw52
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    you want to deal somebody for Machado…then deal Pham.Keep DeJong.He plays a premium position.He is younger.He does not have eye or a injury history.Sell high on one year wonder Pham.

    #39384
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
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    Dejong and pham are both valid sell high candidates. So is fowler (his value will never be higher).

    The problem in our outfield is we need to move something like four guys minimum if we acquire a guy like ozuna (or stanton at one point).

    We just have a lot of decent players.

    #39386
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
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    … Also, dejong only has maximum value at shortstop. At third his value is significantly lower (probably 1/3 of his value at short and that is being kind).

    Gyorko at third where he is a similar value player and trading dejong would probably be a better option for the team.

    Getting machado if it happens pretty much screams that dejong will have a new home.

    #39387
    AvatarBw52
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    Why trade DeJong?He is young and under team control for years and provides some power.I would trade any of Carpenter,Wong,Fowler,Pham,or Gyorko before I would even consider trading DeJong.That might tick off the saberstat crowd but Carpenter is declining a bit,Fowler was a wasted overpay,Pham has his injury.eye history and Gyorko fell badly the second half last year.Wong just seems like a teaser player;flashing great ability but can’t stay on the field and has too many brainfarts defensively.

    #39388
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
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    I can go either way. His bat screams occasional severe downside similar to soriano or at the extreme randall grichuk.

    On his upside, his could be an mvp candidate. On his downside awful.

    …. Or you could have a yearly mvp candidate in machado.

    You deal him because you get a better player. You don’t if you think he will keep it up.

    Either way, with machado he has no position and thus no place on this team.

    #39389
    AvatarTexasCard
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    And just like that the Cardinals GM throws cold water on the rumor.

    “Cardinals GM Michael Girsch told Ben Frederickson of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that giving up significant assets for a star player with just one year of control remaining is “not a path we are likely to go down.”  Interestingly, this description applies to both Machado and to another oft-mentioned Cards trade target in Josh Donaldson.”

    https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/12/orioles-trade-rumor-manny-machado.html

    #39390
    AvatarOnyxgem
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    Lets face it the cards brass is to dang in love with their prospects to trade any period. We prob will go into next year with the pretty much same team that missed the postseason for the 2nd consecutive year this year.

    #39391
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
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    There’s a lot of ways things can go. There’s tons of moving parts on all sides right now.

    Keep in mind the free agent class next year will allow for a lot of things. It is entirely possible that a player might want to sign sooner to beat the rush and lock in a contract.

    …and maybe it isnt long term. 3 years/75 million so he can do this without all the contract competition? Who knows…

    All he basically said was we don’t do rentals. Extensions happen.

    #39404
    AvatarSoonerinNC
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    Why is everyone wanting to dump DeJong. You have a guy that made the majors in his second full season, hit 25 homers in a partial major league season and 38 overall and is at this point average or slightly better defensively in his first full year at shortstop. Just because Diaz flamed out not everyone is going down the same path.

    I much prefer Machado to Donaldson if we are talking about a one year rental. but if we get either we have to clear out some of our infield surpluss particularly on the corners. I think Machado is a potential superstar.

    #39405
    AvatarLoganAlpha30X7
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    I’m guessing that some here fear a repeat of what happened to Diaz after his rookie year, some fear the same could happen to DeJong so it’s more of a strike while the iron is hot than to have him regress and not be able to get anything for him later on or have missed the opportunity…

    #39415
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
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    …I cant speak for anyone else. I don’t want to dump dejong. I am just indifferent if we do.

    We have a bunch of average to above average players. Dejong is one of them. If you acquire a star (machado is one) then those players are expendable.

    We need stars. Plural. Not single. It was that way even with stanton.

    There isnt much more to it.

    Dejong is nice. If you take it a step further and look big picture… He is just that — nice.

    Machado would be the best ss in the game or damn close.

    Nothing more needs to be said. If you cant see the difference well…

    … And yes, regression is a legitimate fear. Look at alfonso sorianos career… Hot or miss from year to year in the extreme.

    #39427
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    Would love to bring in Machado, and dealing some premium talent would be required. I doubt Baltimore is interested in too many of our position players – they probably want to get a couple of those good young arms we have, plus perhaps a guy like Piscotty who is young enough and has had success to where he is a good bet to improve.

    But to do that, you almost have to get Machado to sign long-term.

    #39439
    AvatarPadsFS
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    I would gladly deal DeJong, because Machado is far superior.

    #39441
    Avatargscottar
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    Bringing in Machado shouldn’t spell the end of DeJong. DeJong can easily move over to 3B and yes hitting 30 HR should provide enough value to be a starting 3B. Gyorko is not an everyday player and shouldn’t be treated as one.

    #39445
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
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    Dejong is more valuable as a trade chip than at third where we have a guy who is comparable signed reasonably.

    Ditto at second.

    I repeat : soriano. Grichuk. Diaz.

    Risk/reward matters.

    When you have too many guys, and you make trades to improve, stuff happens. IF they move dejong but improve at the position I would be fine with it. That’s how this game is played.

    #39449
    Avatargscottar
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    Assuming that DeJong is going to be the next Diaz, Soriano, or Grichuk is just that, an assumption. It doesn’t make it a fact.

    #39450
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
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    Where was that written by anybody?

    Havent seen it once.

    Risk/reward matters.

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