Josh Donaldson thread

[NJ315]

I know I am in the minority here but I rather sign Hosmer. They will probably have to overpay but they will have regardless to lure other free agents. He is lefthanded and to me that’s the biggest need for the offense. I know what to do with Carp? Trade Carp to the AL he is better suited as a DH. He is fragile and would have less wear and tear as DH. Hosmer costs only money. I am not a fan of Machado, I know heresy. Donaldson is right handed and 32.

[LoganAlpha30X7]

I just fear overpaying a guy that by the end of his contract won’t even be close to earning it, I fear paying a guy 20 million or more and him being hurt half the time when it can be reasonably expected that his production will falter noticeably towards the end…

[Brian Walton]

I am not necessarily in favor of Donaldson, who by the way, in 2013-2016 played this number of games: 158, 158, 158, 155. Just pointing out that the Cards may have to get who they can actually get. As we saw in the case of Stanton, it is not always in their control.

[Brian Walton]

Goold replied to Nightengale’s tweet basically saying the Cards aren’t going for a one-year player because of the price and they aren’t counting on anyone to stay on.

[LoganAlpha30X7]

Though what does that say about the Cardinals if they don’t think that players would want to stay here even after playing for us for one year…

[Cardinals2016]

It says they are being realistic. They are going to chase the money, and the Cardinals know their valuation model only goes so high.

[LoganAlpha30X7]

But if you only ever go after the lowest hanging fruit then you’re not going to have a very good team, you shouldn’t overpay either however there are players from time to time that you do have to actually pay up for and right now outside of pitchers there isn’t a guy like that in our entire organization imho…

[thejager]

I like Donaldson but one year is still one year and he is getting up there in age….but the way i look at it…id try to get him IF we can also grab something else we want…then losing the prospects doesnt feel as bad…

like Stroman to pair with Carlos long term…or maybe Osuna as a late game RP/Closer option

adding either ups the prospect payout BUt at least it gives us one thing long term to pair with the short term fix…which still doesnt stop us from attempting a re-sign…AND should we win or do very well i think the chances at least go up a little that we get a fair chance..

I am starting to lean towards going after Hosmer just to make it easier than trying to find a trade that gives us max value for our prospects…

So… sign Hosmer and give him thee xtra year he wants…he is still young and we dont need his bat to be otherworldly just a good complement to Ozuna and beefen up the lineup…his defense will always help too..

then use your prospect power to go after Archer and Colome…there is heaps of value to be gained from both sides of that trade…expensive in prospects BUT big time value in what comes back

sign Hosmer
trade for Archer and Colome (Reyes, Wacha, Kelly, Perez, Gyorko, Grichuk, Seijas) (might have to be more but i think we could even add Hudson to sweeten it) their interest in Gyorko might be less but perhaps they could see him as a good contract to move or a 1bman or even 2b) ( i doubt they’d be interested in arp but i’d entertain the deal if they wanted a 1b like Carp instead of Gyorko) (If they wanted Wong we could make that work too) (if they didnt want Wacha that coudl be worked around as well) we have plenty of options for the Rays)

Carp(3b),Pham,Ozuna,Hosmer,Fowler,DeJong,Yadi,Wong strong
CMart,Archer,Weaver,Mikolos, Waino/Flaherty strong and cheap
Colome,Gregerson,Cecil,Lyons,Brebbia,Bowman,Tuivalala… better and revamped
Bader,FA catcher,GGarcia,JMart,Valera/Meija/Munoz…. pretty solid

we’d still have Flaherty and Hudson and Hicks…with Bader ONeill Knizner

Still at the end of the day Donaldson is only here for one year for sure…unless we could add something to that deal to give us longer term value for the loss of high prospects i dont see the fit…Moustakas, Hosmer, eve JD all could be had for just money…and woudl add about the same level of impact to the lineup as Donaldson at this point

[gscottar]

I’m with you jager. We need to forget about Machado and Donaldson and go after who we can get. The only problem I have with Archer is that they will demand Reyes and that is a non-starter for me. They can have everyone else you mention plus a few others but I draw the line at Reyes. He needs to be here the next 10 years.

[NJ315]

I agree on signing Hosmer even if it as an overpay in terms of years. Money is ok but prospects for 1 yr rentals no.

[858booyah]

I think the Cardinals want to make deals with both Tampa and Toronto if it means not gutting the system and some cash comes with it. It’s the way they do business now.

I’m also of the opinion that they won’t pay $15 million for a closer. Which is why this Tampa thing is still alive. I think there’s some cold feet on throwing money at that problem based on recent FA pitching failures. I think Addison Reed is the guy but my guess is the length would be an issue for us to commit.

I’m starting to warm to Hosmer a bit more but I can’t see them committed to that long of a contract. Boras is driving this likely into 7 year deal upward $25 million per which is why he’s not signed on anywhere. Which makes me laugh a bit because I really just have a feeling they’d tinker with Logan Morrison.

[thejager]

I guess i am just not as enamored with Reyes ass everyone else… If he turns out to be as good as Archer that’d be great…but i think he has issues

he is 23
he is cheap now but Arb eligible in 2020 and FA in 2023…next 10 years, more like 6
he just had TJ surgery (not a death sentence just a fact)
he had control issues before he got hurt and lost a year to recovery
he MAY start some this year but it doesnt look like he’d be a full season starter until 2019

Archer doesn’t hit FA until 2022
Archer doesnt hits 9m, then 11m only in his last two years (2020 and 2021) (If Reyes turns out perfectly he will get more than that in those years for arb)
Archer is older (but already proven and proven to be very effective)
Archer is a known quantity and present day present year star front end pitcher

We only lose really one year by swapping Reyes and Archer and probably save money on the deal, he is a bit older so of course there is some regression probably, but that only matters if Reyes turns out to be perfect

I like Reyes a lot, but Archer is a Cy young guy right now who doesnt make more than 11mil before 2022. His bloated ERA means very little when comparing the leagues and division he was pitching in, his Ks have been above 2020 for a while, he would be dominant right now.

Swapping Reyes in a deal for Archer + Colome (maybe Longoria i guess) is fine with me as we get something comparable back in Archer…we get a present day star instead of a POTENTIAL future one

Reyes is a jewel…and jewels can be shown off or they can be used to buy things you need right now…and we could really use/need a front end starter right now…not in 2-3 years….

now would i prefer BOTH… absolutely…but if it’s a sticking point…it shouldnt be

[gscottar]

If we gain Archer but lose Reyes then our rotation for 2018 still comes up short IMO. I have little faith in Wacha, Waino, and Mikolas. Weaver would have to go to Tampa if Reyes didn’t.

I would like to see a rotation led by CMart, Archer, and Reyes the next several years. All three are relatively young and cost controlled and very dynamic. That rotation would be the envy of baseball. We would still have money left over to go get Darvish too if the Cubs don’t get him first.

[thejager]

I think Moz is posturing some on feeling “fine” with our rotation…but thinking that 3/5ths of it arent worth feeling good about seems extremely pessimistic …ill give you Waino and maybe Mikolas…but Wacha was pretty solid…

if you want you can be pessimistic about every player if you are worried about injuries… but i dont see why we shoudl be optimistic about Reyes… he is recovering from injury wont be a starter to start the year at the least…and had control issues…i dont see any reason to be optimistic about him…hopeful sure.. but optimistic for him but not for the others seems bias

Archer has been solid and pretty spectacular for a while…and he is super cheap… he solves the problem now and doesnt break the bank…we may have to lose Reyes to do so but what has Reyes done to deserve the Archer level of optimism you bestow on him? If he was 20 or 21 i get it…but he isnt…he wont be in the rotation to start a year for us until probably 2019 at best…24 years old and 5 yrs until FA

[gscottar]

Waino appears to be done.
Mikolas is almost a complete unknown at this level.
Wacha shows signs of being his old self then follows up with a clunker. The only consistent thing about him is that he can rarely last longer than 5 innings, not to mention that you never know when the shoulder will flare up again. I just don’t have a high level of confidence in him.

Reyes is supposed to start his season around May 1 and may begin in the pen, which means it is reasonable to believe he could be in the rotation by July. It isn’t like we are going to have to wait on him forever. Is he going to be a sure fire ace? I don’t know and neither does anyone else but there is a reason he has been rated our No 1 prospect and one of the top rated prospects in all of MLB. I say we team him with CMart and Archer to make one of the most dynamic trios in all of baseball. That would be something to feel good about for several years.

[thejager]

the same pessimism for starting pitchers could be made for a lot of teams rotations out there

i agree all 3 would be great…BUT if it took Reyes to get Archer…i dont see the reason to balk at the deal…we have solid guys behind Reyes that could be very good too…and have more control and havent been injured and lost a year of development already…

I’d rather have Archer and CMart + Weaver as my 1 2 3… than have CMart and Archer and MAYBE Reyes in July (and his level of play is yet to be proven to be depended on)…without having Wacha Weaver and Hudson/FLaherty (because we had to use them instead of Reyes to get Archer without moving Reyes)

I am sure i am overpaying but it will take extra to rip that great contract of ARcher’s out of the Rays future plans…we arent getting a “deal” just because we take on Longoria’s pretty reasonable contract…we might get a bit of a deal…btu we are going to have to open the gates to the farm and unload if we want 3 good to very good MLB level players…a leader in Saves, a Cy Young candidate and a GG defender with solid stick

[gscottar]

You make good points but at the end of the day I think Reyes has a higher ceiling than Weaver and I believe it is going to take quality to overcome the Cubs, not quantity. We have tried the quantity approach and it hasn’t worked.

[14NyquisT]

Trading Reyes or Flaherty would certainly and seriously hurt this team going forward.

[Ratsbuddy]

NO WAY do we trade Reyes. He is untouchable.

And I didn’t realize that Donaldson was only 31 years old. Assume he will be 32 next year. I thought he was 33/34 years old. He should have a few good years left in him. If we don’t have to give up too much and feel confident we can sign him long term I think he is worth the trade.

Its just so difficult when you deal with players that are free agents after 2018. Its almost a no-win situation.

r/Rat

[NJ315]

Hosmer 28. No prospects needed. Lefty.

[Brianpnoonan]

If you sign hosmer you have to trade carpenter or fowler and put the other in left. Probably Fowler.

I want to do things like that but the front office isnt exactly known for it.

[NJ315]

Then the front office will doom the team.

[NJ315]

But why they will need to trade Fowler? I can see Carp but not Fowler. Carp should be traded. He is fragile and he DH written all over him.

[Brianpnoonan]

Stashing a bat in left happens. And fowler isnt exactly good defensively.

Carpenter’s contract isnt bad. Fowler s is moronic. Which would you keep without even taking into account that carp has been here a while and is homegrown?

[mudville]

Somehow I get the impression that nooner has never really taken a liking to Fowler or his contract.:)

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