Home › The Cardinal Nation Forums › Open Forum › Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2017-2018
- This topic has 2,871 replies, 53 voices, and was last updated 5 years, 3 months ago by Brian Walton.
-
AuthorPosts
-
December 18, 2017 at 6:19 pm #40013
They’ll still trade him – they are at least four years away from being a .500 club, by which time he’d be gone. Better to trade him now and try to shave some time off that turnaround.
Of course, by the time they get done, they’ll be down to about 500 fans per game. They actually had the audacity to raise ticket prices.
December 18, 2017 at 6:23 pm #40015Now, this is funny
December 19, 2017 at 10:32 am #40035I don’t know why the Marlins are catching grief over their tear down. They are doing what the Cubs and Astros did. Tanking is the going thing now.
December 19, 2017 at 1:01 pm #40043So…. what are the big talking goods and bads on Hosmer?
I am starting to want to just pay for him and use prospects to figure out a closer or maybe a closer+
December 19, 2017 at 1:19 pm #40046NJ315ParticipantThe day has finally come…we agree Jager
December 19, 2017 at 1:23 pm #40047The concern with Hosmer is that he tends to have a good year followed by a down year, etc…. inconsistent. Also, the stat geeks don’t rate him very highly defensively.
To me he sure does pass the eye test. He is going to provide production somewhere around .280, 25, 90 and seems to play solid defense to me. He may not have great range but he seems to have very good hands which is more important to me defensively. He also seems to be a great clubhouse guy, although I know the stat people don’t care for subjective assessments like that.
Is he worth 6 years at $140M? I don’t know but that is probably going to be the price. We also would have to determine if we want Carp at 3B.
December 19, 2017 at 1:51 pm #40050NJ315ParticipantHe probably isn’t but he serves two purposes for the Cardinals first he is a lefty and second along with Ozuna makes the Cardinals into a team willing to invest in getting better. Other free agents will notice.
December 19, 2017 at 2:22 pm #400516 yrs 140m? hmm….6yrs 120 i might swallow…140m…man that seems high…
still 6 years put him at 34 at the end…this is definitely his prime years…
i agree on him potentially helping with getting others to come (along with Ozuna)
If we legitimately think we have no chance at any of the top talent frenzy of next year maybe we go with Hosmer now…
My only concern is that we might not be able to be in on any big FA’s…so him being added to help bring FAs may not matter if we dont have money to spend
Still if we could add Hosmer
then trade for Colome and Archer…maybe even add in Longoria…a win now strategy looks pretty goodArcher, Colome, Longoria
for
Gyorko (good contract and good player)
Reyes, Kelly (yep big returns mean big prospects)
Wacha, Grichuk (still has upside and ready to play)
Perez and Seijas (good far away prospects)CMart, Archer, Weaver, Mikolas, Waino…….Flaherty
Fowler,Pham,Ozuna,Hosmer,Longoria,DeJong,Yadi,Wong
FA catcher,Jmart,Carp,GGarcia,Bader
Colome,Greger,Cecil,Brebbia,Lyons,Bowman,TuivalalaWe get better all the way around…
– good young cheap rotation with very good 1-2 punch and growth and still have some prospects
– lineup gets older and more expensive… but more power and fear, and we still have upside prospects
– bench is better with Carp in there to move around the diamond when an injury happens (outside of to SS)
– bullpen has some depth at the back end but is solid and still have Hicks and others that project wellSS depth is still very thin
much more money spent…though Waino coming off after 2018 will helpDecember 19, 2017 at 4:15 pm #40055Ss depth is thin? In what world?
Dejong
Garcia
Munoz
SosaAll in aaa or higher. That’s pretty darn deep. You could argue sosa and Munoz need aaa time but still… They’re age appropriate at their levels and fairly talented. They wouldnt be perfect choices but munoz specifically could give us an option imo… he already did most of a year at aaa.
December 19, 2017 at 4:57 pm #40056i love that one lien is all you comment on…mayeb i shoudl have said STARTING MLB level SS depth is pretty thin…because it is
I dont say we dont have guys that can play the position…
DeJong is fine for now but if he regresses?GGarcia can play there but when he was extended there in the past he flailed to hit well enough and his defense there has always been less than spectacular
Munoz has no MLB experience seems like he might work but is a huge ? for being “ready”…Sosa is at best for this year is a late season callup and that is pushing it… Meija proved he can play defense there which is good and Tovar is a coin flip in my opinion…might not even be starting ss at AAA
sure we have warm bodies… but if DeJong goes down to injury or flails like DIaz did, and PErlata before him…. then are you really comfortable with a subpar defender but decent hitter on base guy in GGarcia or a defense first and no bat like Meija? Or entirely unproven Munoz?
Garcia was given the shot two years ago and it didnt work out forcing us to go to Gyorko a lot…and had a shot again after Diaz went down but the team doesnt seem to trust him at SS…except in a little better than a pinch
I like Munoz i am high on him…he may be the next Diaz or DeeJong…i dunno…but depending on him seems a bit much
but at starting MLB level SS I dont see a guy we can turn to if DeJong goes down…i think the situation is the epitome of “thin”
we wgot really lucky the last 3 years with PEralta signing and doing well his first year….but then oops after that it went downhill..we lucked out having upside guys like Diaz behind PEralta and Dejong behind Diaz… both perform well when needed… but id also point to the fact that we missed the playoffs despite their success…
middle infield SS depth IMO is not something you “hope” for… you need a solid backup plan with good options for, not hopes and dreams for breakouts…which is what we have done for 2 yrs
December 19, 2017 at 5:20 pm #40058Darivsh had a “Very good” meeting with the Cubs….i think that deal is about to go down
Darvish, Lester, Quintana, Hendricks, Chatwood is pretty darned good… especially with Montgomery,Smyly,Butler behind them
If we can add Archer…i think we could deal with it…but without a big SP or one of our kids growing up REALLY fast i dont see how we compete
CMart = Quintana
Mikolas = Chatwood (push there for now as the Cubs wanted him so bad and instead went with Chatwood)
Weaver < Henricks (but maybe not by a ton)
Waino <<< Lester (and i think that is being very kind to Waino after the end of his year…but hey they are both older SPs…maybe this is the year LEster declines)
Wacha <<< Darvish (VERY nice to Wacha here)
and for giggles…Reyes (in July)<< DarvishAt best we are pretty unequal…but adding ARcher evens it up a bit…then you hope for big steps forward from Weaver…and Mikolas is inspired…then it starts to even out much more
I figured they’d add one…i just didnt think they’d take Darvish or ARrieta…instead going with Lynn or a next rung down guy and “develop” Montgomery or Butler…
ugh…now i want Archer more than ever… mayeb even more than i wanted Stanton
December 19, 2017 at 11:29 pm #40064Just one thing missing from Archer’s resume, and that’s WINS. In 2017 he had the best closer in the AL backing him up, and he still won only 10 games, and lost 12. I know there are a lot of reasons why WINS are not considered important when assessing a pitcher’s worth. So be it.
IMHO, Reyes has the potential to be the best pitcher in the game. His pitches have movement that defy the laws of physics. And besides that he looks fearless. He should stay untouchable.
If Tampa Bay is willing to make a fair trade, we have players other than Reyes that can help them get better, plus we have the ‘payroll flexibility’ to help them stay within their current budgetary restrictions.
So here’s a possible trade for the Cardinals to acquire Colume, Archer, and Longoria. The Rays need catching so, as painful as it would be, we offer them Kelly. And that’s only because we have Molina, and Knizner. They need pitching. We offer them Hudson and Tuivailala, and, reluctantly, Helsley. They need outfield help, and we offer them Bader and Mercado. So the trade would be Kelly, Hudson, Tuivailala, Helsley, Bader and Mercado, for Colume, Archer, and Longoria. Tampa Bay gets a motherlode of prospects for a completely new look, plus salary relief. St. Louis gets answers to their remaining question marks for 2018.
I think this is an overpay. But I’d still do it because of the talent we have at the upper levels of our system.
December 20, 2017 at 8:14 am #40066Personally I feel Cards are all talk right now, going after Donaldson who Tor said isn’t avail, and talking about Machado for 1 year which is also something they don’t do at all….all smoke right now they made their 2 moves for the off season we might see alot of low hanging fruit since that is their MO but that is all i see them doing which is a shame because we barely might sneak in as a second wild card but this team still has a ton of holes
December 20, 2017 at 8:40 am #4006714NyquisTParticipantOnyx…interesting take on the Card’s acquisition situation this off-season. I think it’s a reasonable comment because the FO in the recent past has done their shopping early (before Christmas) and takes the holidays off. The wheeling and dealing may just be done with, and a FA signing of lesser knowns may be what we’ll get before ST.
It may be hard to imagine the Cards feeling that they are set for ’18. I doubt that they will be merely “hoping” for bigger seasons from Carpenter, Wong, DeJong and Molina. But seeing one or two of this group among the NL batting leaders could make a huge difference in if this team plays in Oct. or not. A bigger question mark is if the rotation is as sound as some may think. I’m feeling that it isn’t as stands, but I’m also all-in on Flaherty. Almost every play-off team gets some unexpected help from somewhere. If a team doesn’t get it, they can call in for tee times early.
December 20, 2017 at 9:40 am #40075I’m all in on Flaherty, also. Big change in him from 2016 to 2017.
I think what may be holding things up is that the Cardinals refuse to make a trade that is unfair to them. They will overpay on occasion, but they will not throw money or prospects around recklessly.
December 20, 2017 at 10:19 am #40079I think you are right mud. The FO is trying to get some things done but look at who they are dealing with.
1. The Jays have made it fairly clear they aren’t interested in a rebuild so prying Donaldson away would require an overpay.
2. The Rays are notoriously one of the most difficult teams to deal with so good luck getting their good players without completely gutting our farm system.
3. The Orioles are also tough to deal with because they have a owner who is a control freak and has to approve every single thing his FO does. I doubt he approves a Machado trade.
4. Most of the top free agents are controlled by Scott Boras so good luck with that.This is all one big game of chicken. Someone will eventually blink but it may be several more weeks before that happens.
December 20, 2017 at 11:50 am #40087It’s interesting that, with regard to free agents, we’re hearing the buzz words ‘We want to pay for what we think the player will give us in the future, not what he’s done in the past’. It seems like, historically, teams were basing their offers on what the player did in the past. Sounds crazy. But then, free agency itself, has been crazy for many years. Attitudes, perspectives can change. No long term contracts so far, no
exorbitant offers so far, and I haven’t seen where there has been a NTC given so far.December 20, 2017 at 2:27 pm #40101Nightengale’s wondering aloud…
Mike Moustakas could be falling right into #Stlcards lap with Evan Longoria off board
December 20, 2017 at 2:39 pm #40104NJ315ParticipantMoustakas will work. He is a lefty hitter. I rather have Hosmer and trade Carp but this would work also. They need a lefty hitter to go along with Ozuna.
December 20, 2017 at 3:26 pm #40114Moustakas would be ok at the right price but I would rather have Hosmer then trade Gyroko.
December 20, 2017 at 7:36 pm #40163Rockies are fortifying their bullpen, while the Cardinals sign…Luke Gregerson
December 20, 2017 at 9:13 pm #40171Second article this week suggesting Toronto wants to trade relievers
December 20, 2017 at 10:25 pm #40179The Nationals are said to have signed former Cardinal and Braves 1B Adams to a 1 year deal…pending a physical…
December 20, 2017 at 10:37 pm #40180So, if we show interest in someone, it is just to make the fans feel good about the Cardinals. If another team shows interest in someone, they are fortifying their team? Is this correct?
December 20, 2017 at 10:51 pm #40183Well forsch, that is an argument that can be made given the Cardinals penchant for coming in second place in the pursuit of roster upgrades…
And the Rockies have already signed Shaw and McGee for their bullpen this offseason (though McGee is just a replacement for himself)…
Who is Gregerson an upgrade over in the Cardinals bullpen from last year? Broxton?
-
AuthorPosts
- The topic ‘Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2017-2018’ is closed to new replies.