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There’s ways to make a trade like that work. One of the biggest ones was dealing leake. If you deal fowler and say… 7 million more it could be done with room to spare… In my opinion anyway.
It is the definition of hypocritical to ignore national publications when yhey don’t say what you want to hear, then try to quote them when they do and use them as a credible source.
If you don’t want the label stop acting like it.
What you want is to be treated with kid gloves and for people to agree with you when you dont use anything substantial to back up your opinions.
If i was the only one saying stuff like this about you I wouldnt be half as adamant. You have sat there and baited me specifically repeatedly.
I called you juvenile too. What I just described above is the definition of juvenile… And you want to sit there and complain that someone calls you on it.
Complain all you want I will keep calling you on it.
Opinions get slapped in the face with nothing to back them up. Carioca specifically hits me with reality all the time. Pads as well. They’re good guys. Brian does too to be fair 🙂 and im obviously still here.
Dad always said… “there’s your opinion, their opinion and the truth. If you’re lucky all three will coincide.” Like it or not… You will make mistakes. Accepting that goes over better than whining that someone doesnt like you.
… Also If you’re going to bait me repeatedly im going to tell you what I really think. And I have told brian for fifteen years (I was on this board BEFORE he was on scout) that if he wanted me to tone it down all he has to do was ask.
Your passive aggressive bull that you try and pull to get me gagged might work… But he will crack down on you too don’t kid yourself. Ive been here when he has banned people with closed minds and big mouths.
My list isnt on me nyquist. I actually was too busy to redo my list. Buying a house. Insanity. You know what I mean.
…. And for future reference.
You can’t pull hypocrisy on this board. People will call you on it.
On one side you blow off everyone who brings up national publications stating matheny is a horrible manager. On the other you try and quote them in saying fowler is good.
Not going to fly. You have no credibility.
…why is that shocking? Lots of idiots in this world. Like people who believe Dexter fowler is extremely good.
Averaging 2.2 war for his career?
Yeah.. theres roughly 120 better players in baseball every year.
…and that was if he stuck in center.
In left? LOL
Seriously. His stats scream average and overpaid. And that’s in center.
That is even ignoring our multitude of centerfield options past year one of the contract which were blatantly obvious if you looked. At all.
Listening to mouthpieces who can’t analyze anything is a very easy way to ruin your team. It is hard enough building a winner with injuries etc.
… His numbers were still not in the neighborhood of good enough to justify that contract unless you want to blindly ignore the rest of his career.
Whoever rated him that way was an idiot. I ripped that rating from day one and gave reasons and stats.
I am if anything being kind.
Fourth best signing? Fowler?
I flat out panned that from day one and gave numbers why. Fowler is exactly who you NEVER sign. Bad defensively, getting older, just had a career year and never produced enough even in THAT year to justify this contract.
If the old board was still there I’d even point at the thread. Not like you could miss a 14-15 page thread where two people were bashing on fowler before we ever signed him and went near apocalyptic after.
You want the math on how bad the fowler contract is? Ive provided a rough approximation before (and been ignored… Obviously).
Fowler needs roughly two five WAR seasons to justify his contract. He hasnt had one in his career.
1.6 WAR is not significantly better than grichuk (0.9) and is probably worth about 3-4 million or so (actually being a mite generous).
How much are we paying him again?
Simple.
By keeping him you compound your error and refuse to cut losses.
By getting rid of him you free money for actual difference makers.
By keeping him you block up to four minor leaguers who are just as talented. Yes they can be traded but you can keep them to get actual difference makers.
By getting rid of him you regain flexibility.
By keeping a mediocre highly paid player you are accepting mediocrity. Those players are NEVER paid money by good organizations that is what minor leaguers are supposed to fill. See : jacob ellsbury and the yankees doldrums.the last several years.
There isnt much to it which is why it is so obvious. Huge mistake from day one. Cut losses and move on.
Fowler in left field puts him in “worst contracts in baseball” territory.
Same problem as carpenter moving to first. All his positives disappear he simply isnt good enough of a hitter in left.
Dump him.
…could also be marketing martinez to trade him. Given his defense that is probablu likely.
Wheels within wheels.
If they sign hosmer, use martinez against lefties and trade wong?
Interesting. Cards pitchers would cry about the defense… But interesting.
If he hit like trout nobody would say a word.
He doesn’t. Not rocket science to criticize.
He isnt worth the money. Period. GIVE him away and we are ahead of the game in major ways.
Fowler and “extremely good” should never be used in the same sentence unless it is “an extremely good waste of money”.
Solid player. Way way way overpaid.
“Extremely good” describes one centerfielder in baseball. It isnt rocket science to figure out who that is.
I agree nyquist. I would rather see them put him in left and give away fowler. You might not get much but you’d get something plus salary room.
Trade for stanton. Sign hosmer. Piscotty plays lf and backs up hosmer at 1b and stanton in rf. Basically a full time player yet but we are not dependent on him as much.
(Pham in center, fowler gone, oneill bader and sierra figure out who is on the bench)
He uses the same guys repeatedly in high leverage situations.
That’s one thing I remember larussa talking about so much. He would throw unfamiliar guys into high leverage situations early in the year to see how they did because he didnt want to burn out his bullpen. He lost quite a few games early that way but his teams generally got hot at the end of the year (see: 2006, 2011).
Matheny hasnt learned the lesson yet apparently.
Fowler in left makes him a worse albatross.
He simply should be moved. Eat it and move on. He isnt getting any younger.
Edit for exposition : same problem carpenter had moving to first. Any positives he has are eliminated by putting him in left. He doesn’t hit enough end of story.
Making do the best you can is one thing. The problem this team has had on a macro scale is that is all they are doing… And fowlers contract stops them from getting difference makers.
Move on. Mistakes happen stop compounding them.
Funny thing is I dont think I’ve bashed matheny. I’ve called him average at best is the closest you can get. Believe it or not I agree that a lot of causes of this season’s failure is on mo and not mike. But some of it is DEFINITELY on mike. At best he didnt help or fix the problem and that is not acceptable.
There is pretty obvious distinction between being constantly negative or positive or neither.
You havent shown the ability to see the negatives much less discuss them rationally which is why people jump down your throat so much.
