Matheny as manager – fired 7/14

Home The Cardinal Nation Forums Open Forum Matheny as manager – fired 7/14

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 1,000 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #29277
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    We had a thread about Matheny on the old board, but not here.

    Ortiz uses Oquendo to suggest the manager and his current staff are complacent and not holding players accountable.

    https://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/jose-de-jesus-ortiz/ortiz-cardinals-and-matheny-need-oquendo-s-demanding-standards/article_e1d5359b-9b4d-537a-9678-a739005ddc1e.html

    #29285
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
    Participant

    Free

    I am not sure that matheny is part of the problem.

    I am positive he has not been part of the solution.

    #29288
    AvatarOnyxgem
    Participant

    Free

    Pretty sure Matheny is part of the problem even with the teams left for him to take over he was always out coached in the post season ALWAYS, and now that they are all his teams things keep getting worse on and off the field, he has to go

    #29289
    colhuskercolhusker
    Participant

    Free

    Careful Brian Walton, Mike will just call you bitter.

    #29291
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
    Participant

    Paid - Monthly

    Of course not, there has been no.solution!

    #29293
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
    Participant

    Free

    .. Exactly my point.

    #29296
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    The problem has been with the players execution on defense, on the base paths, and at the back end of the bullpen. MM is not the problem.

    #29297
    AvatarOnyxgem
    Participant

    Free

    Yeah MM is the #1 problem he is the head man he is the one letting this garbage continue and it only has been this BAD UNDER him, he is 100% the problem

    #29305
    AvatarLoganAlpha30X7
    Participant

    Free

    Matheny and Mo are both the problem, Matheny isn’t coaching them well enough and Mo isn’t giving him good enough players, if/when we don’t make the playoffs this year both should be gone…

    #29552
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Dave Cameron of ESPN calling for Matheny’s firing.

    #29563
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    Wow, it sounds like things are a bit testy in Cardinal-land. I did not agree with management’s decision to extend Matheny after last season. I thought the situation should be evaluated after 2017, even though it is common-place not to let a manager go into a final season of a deal. However, the Rockies did just that with Walt Weiss, and now look where they are.

    At any rate, this club has obviously under-performed, and fingers are being pointed. Someone has to pay the price, and since the under-performing players are not easy to change it usually comes down to the manager. The club tried the coaching re-alignment, and the manager will be next if we end the season around .500.

    #29602
    Avatargscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    As I have said before Matheny is not an elite level manager but he has proven he can win when given a winning type roster. The front office DID NOT give him a winning roster this year. They just didn’t.

    Having said that, if Matheny has lost the clubhouse then a change might have to be considered. Giving him an extension last year was weird at the time and is still weird.

    #29604
    Avatarmspaid
    Participant

    Free

    bc:

    If Matheny is not the problem then Mo and Junior are. They put this piece of crap roster together.
    I for one believe that the team is doing the best they can and that’s the problem. If the team is going to be a legitimate contending team with a “real” chance to win the WS then the Front office is going to have to get serious this winter. Leake is not getting serious. Fowler and Cecil is not getting serious. Doing nothing at the deadline is not getting serious. I do agree that Matheny is not to blame entirely or even primarily. It is the Front office that is too cheap to spend any money and too scared to trade a prospect.
    It’s just like John Goodman said in Arachnophobia, “Take out bad wood, put in good wood.” For the Cardinals, “Take out bad talent, put in good talent.” They need a complete overhaul this winter. I would tag ten people to stay from this 25 man roster and make sure the rest were gone from the organization. Spend that 60 million in TV money-raise the payroll to 200 million. Then get ready to play major league baseball next year and not Band-Aids and promises.

    #29605
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Mo put good players on the 25 man. MM has done the best job he can with them. In the end, it’s the players who play the game. The problem has been certain players playing way below their career norms. Want an example? If Oh, Siegrist, and Cecil had done the jobs expected of them and what they’re capable of through the first 2/3 of this season, the Cards would easily be in 1st place right now. Check their career, 2016, and 2017 stats. How do you plan for a number of players suddenly under performing?

    #29607
    Avatargscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Yes the bullpen has at times this year been a dumpster fire but the real culprit for this team all season has been the lack of offense and it isn’t just underperforming. It was easy to see before the season started that we didn’t have enough offense.

    Many on this board were screaming all Winter that we needed more lumber in the lineup but the FO saw otherwise and we have been paying the price all year.

    #29610
    AvatarLoganAlpha30X7
    Participant

    Free

    We have 3 culprits, one is the terrible bullpen, two is the D and baserunning mistakes, 3rd is that we don’t have any power or any real power threat at all anywhere in the lineup, most of the members of this team would fit in well as the 3rd option of a team, but not the 1st or second as they’re being asked to do…

    #29612
    AvatarNJ315
    Participant

    You used Matheny’s win and loss record as fact that he was a good manager many times before. Now this year’s record so far is not his fault. Can’t have it both ways.

    #29613
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    The issue isn’t with the selection of the players. It’s the performance of the players. Position players Molina, Carpenter, Gyorko, and Fowler were to provide leadership. Younger players like Wong,
    Diaz, Piscotty, Grichuk, and Adams were to mature and up their performances. Fowler has stumbled.
    Diaz and Piscotty regressed big time. Grichuk can’t lay off low sliders and high 4 seamers.

    #29614
    Avatarforsch31
    Participant

    Free

    Fowler is a disappointment in regards to OBP. He has done well for SLG. Diaz is only in his 2nd year and showed signs at the end of last year that the league had caught up to him. Piscotty supposedly changed his swing over the winter and that has not paid off. Grichuk was never able to lay off low sliders and has been a strikeout machine. That he is not doing well should not be surprising.

    I have usually been on Matheny’s side regarding his managing. However, he has not learned from his mistakes and seems to be losing the clubhouse. The team would be better off finding another manager.

    #29615
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Okay. You’re the manager, Forsch. You have the position players that MM has. How would you play them, and why would that make a difference? Please be specific and tie changes specifically to advanced performance you’re sure would result.

    #29631
    AvatarAndrew Crause
    Participant

    Bccran- The players aren’t playing well, but Matheny is repeatedly making bad game decisions and not putting players in the best position to succeed. He was hired as he was a “Leader of Men” but whatever quality he had may not be around anymore. He obviously doesn’t have the clubhouse anymore. If a manager is bottom 5 in tactics and can no longer lead the players it’s time for a chance.

    #29644
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    Lots has gone wrong. The bullpen has been mostly awful. The offense has not been any better. And Matheny has never been a particularly strong tactician. He also projects an aura of panic, at least in my opinion. He does not stick with players either in the lineup, or in the batting order, through rough times. That puts guys on edge as you are thinking if you make one mistake, you will be out of there. Now it seems he has given up when it comes to discipline.

    Since the six game win streak back in May I think it was, instead of things coming together they went back to struggling. Much more was expected of Piscotty and Fowler. Carpenter got off to a rough start and still has not played up to expectations, and management fell into this whole weird concept of thinking he cannot hit anywhere else in the lineup but lead off. Thus they abandoned the planned lineup early in the season.

    The most blame is the offense. We thought Piscotty and Diaz were the real deal, and that Carpenter would provide some pop in a run producing spot. None of that has happened. DeJong has partially made up for things, but has struggled lately and strikes out a ton. Pham has come on to be what we had hoped we would get from Piscotty, and maybe then some. But overall, the offense is poor, and the bullpen has not been consistent enough to overcome it.

    #29648
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Interested in the reply to this fair observation by NJ315.

    #29649
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Right. The offense has been poor and the bullpen has not been consistent enough to overcome it. That sums it up. The mixes and matches can be frustrating, but any manager would try to do that to find a key.

    Peralta totally failed in his come back, after he looked good last September. Unexpected.

    Diaz regressed badly. Unexpected.

    Piscotty regressed badly. Unexpected.

    Fowler’s OBP regressed badly. Unexpected.

    Oh regressed badly. Unexpected.

    Those things had nothing to do with the manager.

    #29689
    AvatarNJ315
    Participant

    But players were doing fine then Matheny’s win and loss record proved he was a good manager. You can’t make this stuff up.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 1,000 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

First-hand news and commentary on the St. Louis Cardinals™ and minor league system for over 20 years