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Good comment, LB. I did not realize that, and obviously management was not concerned with the drop off when they gave him the deal. Reminds me a little of how Mark Mulder faltered in the second half of 2004, but we made the big deal for him anyway, which turned out to be a bad one.
Hopefully Piscotty proves to be a player, but it was tough watching him this year as he was just plain bad most of the time, offensively, defensively, and on the bases. He did have that game real early where he got hit in the head three times I believe. Maybe that sort of set the tone, along with his off field stress. Watching on TV (albeit not a great way to really get the feel of the game or team), he seemed to just not be into it – going through the motions in other words.
Fowler in CF fails the eyeball test.He simply wasn’t good this season.Maybe it was injuries and maybe it was just a year older richer a bit of complacency thrown in.Who really knows what’s in Fowler’s head.Maybe he was leery of getting injured worse….I don’t know.Sure he got some timely hits in September but he was not the spark plug he was supposed to be.
Maybe he was not the sparkplug he was supposed to be because of those nagging injuries. Plus being shifted around in the lineup which can change your role. Batting down in the lineup is sure different than leading off, which he was used to.
Since Fowler is used to leading off and Carpenter wants to lead off then Cards have a problem.Somebody has to go.
Fourth best signing? Fowler?
I flat out panned that from day one and gave numbers why. Fowler is exactly who you NEVER sign. Bad defensively, getting older, just had a career year and never produced enough even in THAT year to justify this contract.
If the old board was still there I’d even point at the thread. Not like you could miss a 14-15 page thread where two people were bashing on fowler before we ever signed him and went near apocalyptic after.
Carp was supposed to hit 3…didnt work…once he went back to leadoff he got better not feeling liek he has to hit anyone.,..throw in his shoulder injury woes and you have a down year…
Carp i think woudl be a nice #2 between Fowler and Stanton…
Fowler had a much better year once he left the leadoff spot..and i think he likes driving guys in…is he a 33 hitter no…but he woudl be impressive at @2 with realy #3 and 4 hitters
I see no problem with Carp and Fowler coexisting…unless you have a bias against one or both of them and are trying to create validation of your own bias
Carp L, Fowler S, Yelich L, Stanton R… is a pretty impressive 1-4….throw in Hosmer instead of Yelich if you want too…
hardest thign for me with acquiring outfielders is that the more we are intrgued by other OFers…it just drives down the value of our OFers and the amoutn of them we need to move to fit in whoever else coudl come in…
bccran
Participant
Maybe he was not the sparkplug he was supposed to be because of those nagging injuries. Plus being shifted around in the lineup which can change your role. Batting down in the lineup is sure different than leading off, which he was used to.
Then how do you explain that his line was .223/.302/.408/.709 after 114 plate appearances to start the season while leading off? Or that he was .222/.317/.423/.740 after 218 plate appearances of which all but 4 were as lead off hitter? Or that he was .299/.399/.541/.940 in 273 plate appearances (only 10 as leadoff) after being removed from the leadoff position?
I think Fowler can be valuable to us but he must play LF. I also think we should trade him after 2018. I would rather have O’Neill playing there in 2019 assuming he advances this year. If we can get an improvement somewhere by including Fowler in a trade, do it. If we need to free up salary to get an improvement like Freeman or Stanton, trade him.
I just have to go by his last healthy year – 2016. When he had a set place in the lineup every day, all season. What were his
numbers as a leadoff batter?… His numbers were still not in the neighborhood of good enough to justify that contract unless you want to blindly ignore the rest of his career.
bccran
Participant
I just have to go by his last healthy year – 2016. When he had a set place in the lineup every day, all season. What were his
numbers as a leadoff batter?I basically already told you: .205/308/.390/.698 in 227 plate appearances.
If you want to point out his prior years, I will note that he outperformed ALL of his prior seasons when he batted anywhere but leadoff in 2017. Also, he batted leadoff from the start of the 2017 season until June 7.
I choose to temper any 2017 numbers because of nagging injuries.
Does his 2016 line of .276/.396/.843 for a leadoff man justify his salary of $14.5 million per year locked in for 5 years? Probably not, but we’ll have to see. Only time will tell.
Please we don’t know what intangibles to factor in.I choose to temper my 2017 numbers because they don’t meet my agenda I am trying to get across is the real reason.
his 2016 line means nothing because that wasn’t with the Cards PERIOD
So if someone has an injury free year before they have a year with nagging injuries, you discard the injury free numbers because the player changes teams? That just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
But yet during this year of nagging injuries he hit better than he ever had for half the year. Since it wasn’t at leadoff, we should ignore the year.
Explain that to me because it doesn’t make sense.
BTW, Fowler had injuries in 2016. He was on the DL with a hamstring issue in June 2016. Also, I remember some talk that he has had the heel issue for several years
Okay, Forsch. You’re right on all counts – and then some. He’s just a lousy player given a stupidly rich contract, and all those baseball people who rated him the #4 position player in the off season
don’t know what they’re talking about. His injuries mean nothing too. Case closed. How about a new topic?Fowler is a perfectly fine role player. I like him quite a bit in LF, especially if Pham is healthy enough to cover CF full-time.
A feature on Fowler from Brian Stull covers all the angles.
As I recall, one of the things that attracted the Cardinals to Fowler was his friendly, positive, upbeat attitude. And his infectious smile. They felt he had contributed to the Cubs success in more ways than just between the lines.
But we can’t use Fowler as a leadoff hitter because Carp is practically unable to hit anywhere else than leadoff which hurts the lineup.
How does Fowler hurt the lineup exactly hitting somewhere other than leadoff?
Fowler’s wRC+ for the last three years – 109, 128, 121
Batting lineup – wRC+ in MLB (Cardinals)
1st – 99 (118)
2nd – 108 (116)
3rd – 116 (103)
4th – 110 (109)
5th – 103 (89)
6th – 97 (101)
7th – 93 (100)Maybe the Cardinals will work on the solution to that during the off season. They have already hinted about Martinez. And they’re also probably looking outside.
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