Cardinals By Position – 1B

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This topic contains 21 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Avatar PadsFS 2 years ago.

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  • #35010
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    PadsFS
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    The Cardinals had the fifth most productive first basemen in baseball this year at 5.2 WAR for the position.

    It was manned by Carpenter and Martinez mostly.

    Carpenter was the 13th best 1Bman in baseball and Martinez was 23rd when you lower the required PAs to 300.

    Carpenter rated as the 9th best defensive 1Bman in baseball with a UZR/150 of -0.7 and 10th-rated by DRS with a +1. OVer a 3-year sample, Carpenter falls into the middle of the pack among 1Bers defensively. Offensively, Carpenter is the 17th best 1Ber, while Martinez was the 7th best.

    Gyorko and Voit also played the position for about 200 innings, giving us some more quality backup pushing the position into top 5 in baseball.

    For 2018, I think we need to leave 1B alone with a depth chart of Carpenter >> Martinez >> Gyorko (if not at 3B) >> Voit (AAA)

    A little stricter platoon may do the position (and Carpenter) wonders. Martinez was, by far, the best 1B hitter vs. LH pit

    #35014
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    Bw52
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    Disagree PadsFS,-Carpenter was a huge disappointment this year.I know he had a shoulder injury and hopes to regain his form.Stats be damned he is a average at best fielder and walks be damned he is too passive at the plate too often.Cards need someone at either corner to drive in runs.Not to walk and rely on someone else to drive them in.Too many watched 3rd strikes,too much station to station base running.I like Matt Carpenter but I don’t want him to be my starting 1B or 2B or 3B.Him and Gyorko in Utility roles would be fine with me or either trade Carpenter somewhere else.

    #35015
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    Bw52
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    Disagree PadsFS,-Carpenter was a huge disappointment this year.I know he had a shoulder injury and hopes to regain his form.Stats be damned he is a average at best fielder and walks be damned he is too passive at the plate too often.Cards need someone at either corner to drive in runs.Not to walk and rely on someone else to drive them in.Too many watched 3rd strikes,too much station to station base running.I like Matt Carpenter but I don’t want him to be my starting 1B or 2B or 3B.Him and Gyorko in Utility roles would be fine with me or either trade Carpenter somewhere else.I sure as hell don’t think Jose Martinez is the answer either I think Cards caught lightning in a bottle with Jose and Pham this year.I would be looking at trade values for both.

    #35016
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    bccran
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    Great thread, and great idea to go position by position. The only problem with keeping Carp at fist is that Fowler should be the leadoff man.

    #35019
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    thejager
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    interesting numbers

    it felt a little worse than that but it’s cool to see that the numbers speak against the rhetoric that Carpenter cant play anywhere on the field

    #35033
    bicyclemike
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    Saying the Cardinals first base WAR was 5.9 is a little misleading when talking about Matt Carpenter. Carpenter had a 2.9 WAR for the season. He finished just ahead of the 2.8 posted by Lance Lynn on the Cardinals. Tommy Pham lead the club at 6.3 (all of this is per baseball-reference). Rizzo was at 4.3 for comparison, and all-world Joey Votto was at 7.5.

    Carpenter is still a decent player, but the Cardinals needed a difference maker in the middle of their lineup in 2017 and Carpenter did not bring that. He would be fine as our first baseman and lead off hitter if we got production that is often traditionally provided by a first baseman, from another source. Pham held his own primarily as the left fielder. Gyorko was at 3.9 at third, and that was in only 481 plate appearances (Carpenter had over 600).

    So when you look at the traditional power positions, corner outfield and corner infield, at least for 2017 first and right field is where we were weakest.

    On a side note, I think Gyorko is better than many here feel he is. People seem to prefer him as a “super-sub”, but he is pretty darn good and might fill the need at first base should we somehow acquire a guy like Machado.

    #35035
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    gscottar
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    The club is sending out signals that Jose Martinez will get a shot to be the starter at 1B. Is this legit or a smokescreen? Assuming it is legit I get the feeling that Wong might be a trade candidate instead of Carp.

    #35036
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    Brianpnoonan
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    If they sign hosmer, use martinez against lefties and trade wong?

    Interesting. Cards pitchers would cry about the defense… But interesting.

    #35037
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    Brianpnoonan
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    Slightly off a very interesting topic but…

    Would they trade carpenter AND wong and put diaz at 2nd?

    #35038
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    gscottar
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    They wouldn’t sign Hosmer for $100M to be a platoon guy. Martinez would be on the bench.

    #35039
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    gscottar
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    Brianpnoonan,

    That might be a possibility but I doubt it, because as I have stated in other threads, we don’t need to get rid of all of our LH bats.

    #35041
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    Brianpnoonan
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    …could also be marketing martinez to trade him. Given his defense that is probablu likely.

    Wheels within wheels.

    #35069
    bicyclemike
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    Martinez was terrible in the outfield, but I thought he handled first base pretty well. The key to playing first is developing good foot work, and he seemed to pick that up pretty well, especially for a guy that looked awkward in the outfield. For Martinez to have a decent major league career, I think he has to either play first base or be a DH. His value greatly diminishes when he is in the outfield.

    Giving Martinez a shot to win the first base job is not the worst choice to be made. There may be better options come next Spring, but that is definitely something for management to keep in mind.

    #35078
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    forsch31
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    I hope they give Martinez extensive instruction on 1B. He seemed stiff and uncomfortable there. In Wacha’s last start, he should have fielded 2 balls in the inning the Cubs scored their runs.

    #35079
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    bccran
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    Unfortuntaty, I’m afraid the Cards are looking at Carp as a declining asset.

    #35092
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    PadsFS
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    Jose Martinez had the best splits of all first basemen against LH pitching this year with a wRC+ of 240. Carpenter was one of the worst at 85 wRC+.

    Matt Carpenter had the 13th best splits against RH pitching with a wRC+ of 134. Martinez was at 106 wRC+ and Voit was at 90 wRC+.

    100 is average mind you.

    Allowing Carpenter to sit vs. LH pitching will maximize the position’s production even further. Carpenter in his career has been ok vs. LH – 112 wRC+, but only 106 in the last three years.

    #35213
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    CariocaCardinal
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    I am fine with a Carpenter Martinez tandom at first. I only mess with this under one of two conditions. Either the only MOTOB we can get plays 1B or we get an offer you cant refuse for Carpenter or Martinez.

    I am also fine with Carp leading off and Fowler batting third. They both seemed to thrive in those spots. Why mess with it?

    #35214
    Brian Walton
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    Does anyone think the Cards would really platoon Carpenter? My guess (or is it a hope?) is they would try to trade him before limiting his value by slapping the platoon player label on him. Doing the opposite – platooning him and then trading him with a diminished value – would be the worst of both worlds.

    #35215
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    CariocaCardinal
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    Pads, can I recommend one of 3 option that might make this great thread idea even better.

    Either include the state of the position for the entire system in this discussion; run a simultaneous thread about the position in the minors; or Run a seperate thread immediately following.

    Your thread, your call.

    #35223
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    CariocaCardinal
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    Brian, I wasn’t necessarily suggesting a straight out platoon but if Carp continues with a 85 wrc+ against LH’s then wouldn’t the Cards (or any team) be stupid not to recognize that and use other options if they are better? By suggesting that platooning him would decrease his value implies that other teams are blind to his recent struggles against LH pitching. I doubt that. His value is already diminished.

    #35227
    Brian Walton
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    Here is what is behind my thoughts. Because his struggles against LHP are recent, another team may think the core problem could be rectified following a trade. But if the Cards label him a platoon player, it would indicate they have given up on him being a full-time player. It might further diminish his value. If they think he cannot be fixed, I would be for trading him now.

    #35236
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    PadsFS
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    I also wouldn’t mind Carpenter playing 2B/3B instead of Wong if the LH struggles are legitimate.

    CC – I can do a separate thread for the minor leagues. I will try and look at it later today to get a thread out.

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