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September 1, 2023 at 7:32 pm in reply to: 2023 StL Game #135: Friday, September 1 vs. Pirates #232937
Who did teams ask for last season, from us, in trade?
If I recall, Oakland wanted Nootbaar, Donovan and Graceffo for Sean Murphy.
August 30, 2023 at 2:58 pm in reply to: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2021-2023 #232816At that point wouldn’t you want to hear all the offers available to you?
Yes, but the Cardinals would have a head start in negotiations, and the player would have the knowledge of the team and city.
I guess the flip side is our FO would have a month and 5 days to convince them they should sign elsewhere 🙂
Yes, based on how dreadful this team is in all facets of the game, that seems like the more likely outcome.
Clevinger has a mutual option for 2024. So it sounds like the Cards can keep him if they want to.
No, not really. Mutual options are almost always declined by one party or the other. It’s just a way of spreading out the salary into multiple years. Could be done for Competitive Balance Tax purposes, could be done because the company that paid him planned to trade him if they weren’t in the playoffs.
August 30, 2023 at 10:18 am in reply to: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2021-2023 #232787The argument for picking up Giolito or Clevinger now is that at the end of the season, you get five days to negotiate with them before any other team does.
At least gives you a chance to feel out their expectations going into the offseason.
Leaving Wainwright in there to try to get the win is going to cost them the game
August 26, 2023 at 9:53 am in reply to: Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2021-2023 #232507Walker is bad in the outfield but should be able to play first.
There is no reason to believe Walker can play first. He was bad at 3B, he is bad in the outfield. He is similar to Jose Martinez and Juan Yepez on defense.
I don’t know what the FO is thinking if Mikolas is the plan for #3.
He is their plan for their #1
I would trade Walker before I trade Gorman for the simple fact the Cardinals will never commit to using Walker solely as a DH, and much like Jose Martinez and Juan Yepez, he should never play the field.
But, yes, Gorman’s back issues are troubling.
LA…name pitchers that fall into this category?
I would exclusively shop in the segment of pitchers that do not have qualifying offers attached.
So, three that were traded at the deadline:
1. Lucas Giolito
2. Jordan Montgomery
3. Michael Lorenzen (more of a #3 than a #2)One that was pulled back from the trade deadline (and is now injured):
– Marcus Stroman (this would be a short two year deal, and he would be replacing Wainwright in the rotation)If we wanted a Top-of-Rotation candidate that would cost draft picks due to qualifying offer:
– Blake SnellAnother name available: Mike Clevinger – though he may get tagged with a QO
The Cardinals have or had $45 million in salaries come off the books from: Wainwright ($17.5), Montgomery ($10), DeJong (net $6), Flaherty ($5.4), Hicks ($3.2), Stratton ($2.8). They can also free up $5 million by trading O’Neil.
So, if you acquire Giolito and Montgomery through free agency, payroll is roughly neutral with this year.
Third starter is most likely acquired via trade.
If we thought Montgomery was one of these(I do) then why didn’t we make every effort to re-sign him?
Because Boras is his agent?
in 13 games he went 3 for 44 with 18 strikeouts and no walks. DeJong’s .068/.068/.068 slash line resulted in a -62 OPS+.
The Cardinals need to acquire 3 starting pitchers that are at least Jordan Montgomery level (#2 starter).
I’d consider O’Neill, Donovan, Carlson, Herrera (unfortunately), Burleson, Gomez, Yepez, Baker, Dunn,
If you want a good pitcher, you should probably be willing to part with either Gorman or Walker.
If that 2 pitch pitcher can develop a 3rd usable pitch and command then they can be a stud, but without those you have a pen arm you took in the first round and looks like a bust.
He had 3-4 pitches. The knock on Williams was that he was a reliever his first two seasons in college.
Who, specifically, would you trade and who would you hope to get back?
Which free agent pitchers do you think you’d be able to sign to 1-2 year contracts, and how much do you think those contracts would be?
Bonus question: How good would you expect the Cardinals to be given who you’ve traded and acquired?
How would you fix the pitching hole next year, bccran?
The Dodgers draft near the bottom almost every year but yet have one of the best farm systems.
Exactly.
He’s forever been drafting in the 18-22 slot. It would take blind luck to find a top of rotation pitcher that far down the board. So he took the best player available. Had he drafted mediocre pitchers instead of ‘best available’, we would be even worse off.
I get tired of this crutch.
Let’s just look at the names listed in your posting:
Stroman – Round 1, pick 22
Sonny Gray – Round 1, pick 18
Blake Snell – Competitive Round A, pick 52
Aaron Nola – Round 1, Pick 7So, of the four pitchers you mentioned as typically unavailable to the Cardinals, three of them were in the range where they would typically be available to the Cardinals. The Cardinals just missed.
In 2021, the Cardinals chose Michael McGreevy in Round 1 with pick 18. The Guardians chose Gavin Williams in Round 1 with pick 23. Williams was the 6th ranked overall Top 100 prospect before he was promoted to the major league roster. If you read scouting reports at the time, McGreevy had control, Williams had two out pitches. Who had the higher ceiling?
I’m not advocating for trading Edman now that we have unloaded DeJong.
But the hero worship of Edman on this board is ridiculous.
Edman is a platoon player that can only hit left-handed pitching.
A catcher with an .800 OPS and 2.3 BWar 75% through the season is nothing to give away and definitely not pay to trade.
Here is where the concept of opportunity cost is important.
What does it cost to acquire a free agent pitcher on the open market?
Now, what if you pay down 90% of Contreras’ contract and acquire a MLB-ready Top 100 pitcher who is cost-controlled for six season?
Are you really paying for Contreras to pay for the other team, or are you paying to acquire a starting pitcher at a reasonable cost?
My untrained eye test doesn’t think he’s as bad as everyone else.
According to Baseball Prospectus, he is 82nd amongst catchers in Defensive Runs Prevented, and 80th in Catching Defense Added.
According to Fangraphs, he is 65th amongst catchers who have caught at least 100 innings in Defensive Runs Saved.
According to Baseball Savant, he is 52nd in pitch framing.
Who wants to pay a player to play for another team?
It is preferable not to, but if you want to win, sometimes you have to do what is best for the team.
The Cardinals publicly scapegoated Contreras, they need to do what’s best for the team.
Thompson went four innings. Isn’t that a starter’s workload for the Cardinals?
The pitcher from East Carolina is awful.
Not sure why the Cardinals continue to humor that scout that keeps drafting players out of East Carolina.
Goldschmidt has amassed well over 100 more PA’s than has Gorman and almost all of those PA’s have come from the 2 slot.
Statistically, you want your best hitter in the #2 slot.
Why do you keep arguing against it, when the logic has been accepted in baseball for more than 30 years?
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