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… Valid IMO… Just depends on what you want to do.
To me, pham in center could be awesome … But Fowler needs to go.
However if pham got dealt I would understand.
Yelich is the better value but in no way is he the better player.
And I dont see how he is a better value for us in any way shape or form. We have centerfielders. We even have some who can fly (sierra and machado in aaa). I dont see how adding yet another one helps us.
Pham in center with ozuna helps us way, way more than yelich… Assuming fowler is gone anyway… Only way any of this makes sense.
Depends on price… Nothing wrong with kicking the tires and grabbing depth.
And making the cubs cry a bit doesnt hurt anybody’s feelings.
Sell high on value isnt the worst reason to make a trade. Virtually ever.
Fact is it is a pretty good one.
Im fine either way but dejong is definitely a candidate for that type of trade. Someone compared him to soriano a while back… Not the worst comparison.
That type of player is an mvp one year and grichuk the next… Which is why selling high makes way too much sense.
*shrugs* we need upgrades. we have a lot of decent outfielders but no truly good ones outside of pham…
like i said, it makes sense if they deal fowler. a lot of sense.
you deal dejong as part of the deal and don’t bat an eye… or you deal dejong for an outfield upgrade if they want something else, doesn’t really matter.
Ozuna would fit better if we dump fowler. You can put pham in center and piscotty in right with bader and sierra as backups.
O’Neill and mercado at aaa for emergencies. Not bad really.
If you deal piscotty (I would) you can substitute O’Neill in right.
… And yes I know this means grichuk has nowhere to be. Gosh…
Overall better than last year and three moves (plus releasing grich) is a lot but … We almost have to make one or two at least with the absurd number of semi productive outfielders we have.
..also… If you deal carpenter for another player the abreu deal makes more sense.
Getting caught up on “this deal isnt a huge upgrade in comparison to this deal” ignores that VEERY obvious fact.
Agreed completely.
One five war year is worth quite a bit… I just dont want to throw the bank at a guy on the wrong side of 30 because options are disappearing.
You know like we did last year
I dont mind getting donaldson but I hope our front office doesnt panic and do something stupid.
Again.
Donaldson would help. Get another bat on top of him and we will improve.
Honestly I think the cards are their own worst enemy right now. They’ve created a culture of replaceable parts and young talent but can’t seem to attract big names most likely because they aren’t replaceable.
Fowler? Leake? Replaceable. Stanton? Not so much.
For all we know stanton will never have another year like last. But right now this stings.
You shouldnt care most of the time..
Problem is on this board you get routinely eaten alive by people who actually do research instead of making off the cuff snide comments like you are so fond of…
It makes you look dumb even when you are right. And frankly you seem to be right currently.
Funny thing is I think I agree with that.
We do way way more harm than good when we sign middling players to big contracts. Fowler and leake are perfect examples. Especially fowler when we panicked with the cf market without even paying attention to our medium and long term pipeline.
That chatwood one is a headscratcher… Even with his home road splits
Doesnt give 200 innings and is iffy as a pitcher. Maybe they get their money out of it but there are much better options.
Good for us long term imo
Nate, it would help if you made more than snide comments about everyone that isnt a 6 WAR player.
Until you can do that you are going to get people who continue to smack you back down even when you are right.
I still think you are severely underrating carlson. Peoria is a very bad place for a hitter and he had a league average ops at 18 (read: way, way too young for the league). At a normal pace of improvement he would be 20 in aa and put up about an .800 ops… Which is top 100 material and then some.
It isnt a stretch to say he could be in the majors at 21 with what he has accomplished. Not in the slightest. Difficult but not a stretch.
Now… Does he have a lot to prove? Yep. But last year was EXTREMELY impressive for a first year minor leaguer if you look past the surface at all.
You also are panning the game playing necessary to sign more talent. Perez might bomb but talented? That he is. He was considered the most talented player in the draft. Which blows your argument out of the water if you use that draft as an example of the cardinals not going after the best talent.
Hudson? Aaa his first full year. Gallen? Same thing.
And I am going to purposefully barely mention andrew knizner who looks like we stole him and then some. The guy should be in our top five right now… Which is saying something with our organizational depth.
Overall that 2016 draft looks extremely, extremely good even with perez bombing so far. Hell we have a 27th rounder destroying the minors so far (O’Neill — low ceiling high control guy so we will see…)
You’re also really stretching things by saying that you should pick college first always when 3 of our first 12 picks were high schoolers.
You and I got into it that day and we will keep getting into it because you’re being ridiculous. And honestly we’ve agreed way more often than not.
We basically took a top three or four guy people thought was the best talent available in the entire draft because he fell (You know… Going after the high end guys), then signed carlson so we could go after more guys.
You cant use that 2016 draft as an example of the cards not going after the best talent and ignore the fact that we might have drafted the most talented player.
Catcher WAR values are long term screwed up and good defense is severely understated. It is IMO hard to come up with a numerical value for the pitching aspects and shutting down running games.
People just didnt run against yadi for years. What is that worth compared to a guy who throws out way more runners but has a ton more bases stolen against?
Imo it is fair to say that 4 WAR from a catcher is probably closer to 6 (probably more if they have good defense like posey).
Guys we have who can be those 5-10 WAR players in any given year :
Kelly
Reyes
Pham (he came out of nowhere) especially in center…. That’s about it. That’s why when people say trade kelly I look at them like they are dumb. One injury and yadi doesnt get his job back. And yadi isnt getting any younger.
Stanton is obviously one. Donaldson is. There’s a reason these guys cost a lot… They’re hard to find.
Oh I agree…. Trust me I KNOW we need to learn how to give up players in trades. We have a ton of 2-4 WAR talent and players… That’s all well and good until the rubber meets the road and you need the straw that stirs the drink ( the 5-10 WAR guys).
Reyes could be one of them. IMO you need 3-4.
… That last by cardinals2016 about covers it.
I will say that some moving around might make things different though.
Say the blue jays wanted wong straight up for donaldson… Move gyorko to second where his bat plays a little better and he is maybe a 3.0 WAR guy (wong was roughly 2.0 depending on who you ask).
Worth it? Depends on if you can sign him and if you think seferina can handle second in a couple years. We also have sosa and edman.
Donaldson was about 4.5-5 WAR… Game changers are hard to find.
Is he worth wong and his controlled contract? Eh…. I would probably do it if we get stanton. I’d probably do a few things.
