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Like Wainwright possibly come back as a 1inning hero? Are his issues that he has to go multiple innings?
Not saying I like it but he has the mentality to do it as he showed in His early age and his years I think might make him wily enough to do it again. If he can’t get a pitch up to 90 though I don’t see it.
Could Hudson Flaharty or Alcantara or any of the other kids make the jump? Sometimes an unknown youngster late in the season can be a force as the hitters will get few looks and video can only do too much.
Something’s up but asking him to hang them up for his career is being pretty disrespectful to him. He’s won a lot of games for us this year even.
What I don’t like is that he’s heading back to be evaluated and we haven’t just DLd him and got another guy up here. It won’t hurt to DL him for 10 days regardless. He’s obviously not right.
Get Montgomery or Mayers or Gant or whoever up here and don’t play any game with 24 players. We need every arm for the pen right now with the backend in disarray
Giving up on Valera? Hasn’t he hit better Han .300 all but one year in the minors. As a switch hitter? I think the jury is pretty in on him being able to hit.
His place is murky as he plays a lot of 2b. But he has been playing a lot of LF too.
He’s even added a little pop this year.
Greg Garcia to me seems like a trade candidate. He doesn’t have much of a role anymore and with Diaz coming back eventually his role is even less. I think he’d be good as a quality filler in a bigger deal or a deal for a decent but flawed in some way prospect. Replacing him with Valera doesn’t hurt us much IMO
Throwing away Valera is a mistake. None of the middle infield players we might want to add has been as effective and proven his value as much as him. Sure he doesn’t play SS but that’s less of an issue with Diaz and DeJong around
Lame. Still. He was throwing 95. im hoping this is just something that needs a couple weeks.
Montgomery would make sense if we are going to give him a shot in September.
Weaver is up already but it makes me wonder if he is more up to shadow Waino tonight.
I don’t think we will hit non tendering on some of these guys…that is a zero return…i dont think we need to do that…we will have plenty of time to make some moves
trading for less than a stellar return? perhaps…
we know this offseason is big and should include moves, perhaps we can package together some 40 man folks to upgrade something…i think that is the hope… but the more obvious the plan is the less value yo ucan get
Garcia + MLB outfielder + pitching prospect is a good package
outfielder + pitching prospect + infield prospect is nice toolose:
Oh …replaced by Reyes
Duke….replaced by Tuivalala/Brebbia (on 25 man role more so for Lyons to take)
Lynn….replaced by Weaver/Flahertyremove: (these guys are all potential, all might bring back something)
Gilmartin
Wick
Mejia
Gant
Mayerstrading from our strengths and depth is kind of a must for this offseason especially when we have identified a need for the middle of the lineup
Moving Kelly is an option…i think we can find a veteran backup and wait on Knizner if need be…
Kelly
Garcia
Diaz
Piscotty
Grichuk
Bader
Sierra
Voit
Gyorkoall have value right now…adding them to more prospects should bring us back very good talent
I think we can make room…i just think we need to lower our expectations for a return for some of them in case it happens….as i would much rather take a lesser deal than lose a guy to rule 5 or get nothign via non tendering
Regardless, we are going to be saying goodbye to some prospects and players this offseason…
i don’t think he’d cost atop prospect
and the issue with him having an opt out after this season muddles the interest too..
i’d love him for the stretch run… but i would either want assurances on him NOT opting out OR…assurances he WOULD opt in before i decide
it’s a weak market for hitters and i think he might get a bit more than what he has left…but it is a gamble with lots of money…
i just always assumed he was highly considered… guess he just blends in too much…maybe his last name has one too many “l”‘s in it
no time like the present to amp up the love though!!
Free Helsley!
the thing is…a 3rd catcher coming up is pretty standard for every team
but for us it becomes even more helpful as it actually allows the use of Kelly’s bat for pinch hitting
an emergency catcher to me is really only a pre September thing
still we may only go with two but i think ti devalues Yadi and Kelly by doing so (when either is on the bench in a game they will rarely get to use their offensive prowess)
I was kind of interested in Jim Johnson but after seeing him today I’m not so interested.
Drew Storen might be easily had from the Reds.
Had to lose one at some point.
RA Dickey isn’t like any other pitcher out there and the youngsters we depend in really have no experience with anyone like him.
Shake it off and get back at it!
It’s a good point. Just what I’d do with looking at what’d make sense. Not really that all will get the shot.
Gilmartin and Wick probably go.
Rosario for one spot
Montgomery for the other.If Siegrest isn’t coming back (he is) we could go one more. Mejia might sneak through and I’m not sure he survives the cut this offseason
O’Neill and Wisdom would be nice but unless some one gets hurt might as well wait until the offseason for them.
So:
Rosario
Montgomery
Weaver
Piscotty
Diaz
Siegrest
Valera seems like a perfect bench pinch hitter and with Diaz coming up I think we’d have SS backed up sufficiently
mayers or Gant
Bader or Sierra both seems gluttonous I kind of want Sierra just for his legsI could see Montgomery getting passed up for O’Neill or wisdom even if I don’t like it
1 catcher
2 middle infield
2 outfield
4 pitchersThat’s a big clubhouse but it’s taken sot of guys to get us in this thing. Why not have them up to help.
JD Martinez makes sense but what do you think.about his degrading defense? Seems an AL team would be a safer bet
His contract really isn’t all that bad. Especially since he’ll undoubtedly opt out in 2020
Bringing in a young power hitting superstar is hardly a desperation move. I just don’t see anything happening until the offseason.
The deal has just been agreed to right? Not the actual deal being finished right?
I get that argument. Though I think with the new money and the clear statements for a missing middle order back might allow for spending more so perhaps the price point is not as. If a deal as we might think based on past offseason FA spending or contracts to take on.
What price point does Hosmer become worth it? 5 yrs 20mil? 6 yrs 15 mil? I really don’t know.
To me I think he’s in line for 5 years 20mil at least but you never know with the contracts nowadays.
I think the Royals would be pretty dumb not to offer QO’s on all their big FA’s to be…. doesn;t mean any of them will take those one year deals though
i think they’d love to keep Moose and Hosmer…but at best i think they can keep one….and Hosmer i think is the obvious choice…still they may not be able to afford him…so maybe they turn their money to MOose…and let hosmer go…
regardless…Cain hosmer Moose will all bring them back good compensation picks in a weak hitting FA market… so even if they cant keep any of them they wont walk away with nothing
first off..i know plenty of minor league players…however i rarely see us making trades fro minor league superstars to be…when we do make trades it tends to be prospects for MLb guys…sure the Oneill trade is different but still…in general the Cardinals dont do that…and IMO paying a lot of MLB talent for a prospect is pretty risky…AND the other team rarely wants to do it… yes it does happen at the trade deadline and you do see it…
i have brought up young talent countless times in this thread…
I am in NO camp at all..i see the benefit of working in both directions… mlb fro prospects can work..prospects for MLB…. salary dumps…etc etc whatever works…
the camp i do tend to be in…is the camp that says trade from your strength and depth…and for me right now..i see
also..i get not love for scouring other teams rosters…i follow baseball i watch baseball every day…i read about baseball every day…i check the minor leagues for the Cardinals every night or next morning… i look at the international prospects…i knwo most of the other rosters of other teams because i follow baseball..i watch other games than just the Cardinals…i play Fantasy baseball still (9th year of the Cardinals forum birdhouse league)…which forces you to be aware of all the other teams out there…
yeah…i dont follow every other teams minor leaguers as close as the majors players…btu i do check in on the top prospects and look through systems when they seem a fun talking point for a trade or it is listed as somethign happening via buzz or reports…
you can go look at all my posts ever in this thread…i jump around with all types of ideas for trades…even ones i dont really agree with…but that’s the fun of it… j
just because i post a trade abuot Stanton that is entered around prospects for MLB ready doesnt pigeon hole me in any way…it was the idea i thought of to talk about the bigger point…which was about finding a perfect fit for our lineup concerns…and how we could get such a player…and how i think stanton fits that mold perfectly…. whether he WANTS to play here or whether peopel THINK we woudlnt take on that money doesnt matter much in the slightest…as for as much as it was about Sttanton it was about the idea of Stanton and the concept of what would best fit
also…as for us not being willing to take on that contract…i think if Stanton agreed to it and waived the no trade….and he really didnt like it…he’d leave in 2020 anyways…as he has a nopt out..which he will probably take anyways……which means we’d only be paying him big bucks for what 3 years?…and people talk about taking on Hosmer for 25million for 5-6 years? Stanton is better, younger, and while he woudl require trading for and paying…the deal gives us a household name (hOsmer doesnt really do that even if i do like him) whiel also helping us clear up some of our growing glut of good prospects who are MLB ready… and woudlnt you rather trade them for elite talent rather than wasting them in the pen or shufflin them off in lesser deal which have a lower chance of providing the glaring offensive rock we are lacking in the middle of the lineup while also giving us a star?
yeah..giving up a lot of good prospects for potentially 3 years of Stanton woudl be hefty but not future damaging…
im not advocating for any specific move..im just tryin to put together ideas and have fun thinking about them out loud with all of you
i see solutions where dOnaldson makes sense, Ozuna, Stanton , Belt, Hosmer, Moose, etc etc… what’s best is not really up to decide, but it doesnt mean we cant have fun thinking about it together
Great observation. I’m surprised you didn’t correct my capitalization too.
And while I used it wrong. Which is pretty dumb of me. You still seemed to understand the point otherwise you wouldn’t have been so confident to correct me. So in the end didn’t my improper usage work just fine without the correction?
But yeah. I’m glad all you saw worthy enough to respond to was an error like that. I mean if you have nothing good to say then definitely go out of your way to put someone down right?
CC…im not sure anyone has forgotten they started 3-9…. most people gave up then and havent looked up since then with their angst..despite any successes or changes that have happened since then…
a lot has changed since then…but it seems many people made up their minds right there and then…and MM haters or GM haters or player haters…or whatever had all the ammo they needed to ride their disappointment all the way until now…
wit ha win tonight we could be 1 game out with 45+ game left… even if we don’t make the playoffs e have made big strides this year and have plenty to look at positively about this season…
Stanton does have a no trade clause…so it is true that he can stop a trade to wherever… however i have yet to find any citing where Stanton himself said he didnt want to live in the midwest and wouldnt accept a trade to the Cardinals…
it comes from an Sirius XM radio guy Craig Mish saying he has a source that tells him that Stanton doesnt want to live in the midwest
it also says that it isnt anythign against StL but the midwest as a whole…
an unnamed source…reported via tweet….not the player or his agent…
it might be true…but it also might just be BS
it shoudlnt stop us from trying
ALSO… my “blah blah blah” is not something new for me to post at the end of my long messages… which is WHY i typed it…i know i write long posts…and i dont care…but i recognize it… so if you think your little “dig” at me for writing “blah blah blah” was smart or anything…it is pretty ridiculous… I could care less about whether you like my long winded posts or not…i know they are long and i recognize that…which is WHY i said “blah blha blah”…
also…why do my long posts bother you anyways? skip them…i am already self deprecating even within them…you thinking you need to ADD to that is just ridiculous…. ugh
i also prefer Hosmer to Belt
POncedeleon to make up for missed time
Hudson as a star
ONeill
Mercado
Sierra
Maybe JEremy MArtinez?With Memphis undoubtedly going to the playoffs…day 1 i think we see
Piscotty and Diaz…maybe an arm like Mayers or Gant…Siegrest if healthy
after the playoffs
we tend to add another catcher so i think Rosario gets added brought up
Oneill needs to be protected on the 40 man this offseason anyways so go for him
Bader
Valera I think gets shot to show what he has….or at least i really want to get Valera up here,
Mejia seems the obvious choice as he is a good SS…but we haev already seen him…so i hpoe Valera gets a shot to show off his new swing and switch hittinging abilityWisdom gets brought on to the 40 man to see if he is worth protecting
Sierra is weird…nto being in Memphis makes it easier to bring him up but i feel like he might go to AFL so i am not sure if we bring him up or not..
I want to see Montgomery…but i dunno…40 man is gonna be pretty full
Could have had Bruce for almost nothing….oh well…
as for why Donaldson comes up…. it’s because he is available and is still an MVP level player when he is healthy…and as he is a trade target and not a contract we dont have to worry about long years…just next year…
if the only players you think are worth trading for are MAchado, Arenado, Trout, Stanton then you will tend to be disappointed all the time…
a perfect fit is just that…perfect…it’s rare… it’s hard to find and even harder to get… so you compromise some
perhaps Donaldson is a good target because even though he will cost a bit more than he should for one year of play…. he will be a FA after that…and we can throw all the money at the “worthy” players in the next FA period….but unfortunately we have budgets unlike other teams…so Harper and MAchado are pretty much non starters for acquiring anyways…do you really think we will outbid LAD, CHI, BOS, NYY, maybe even LAA? We have tried multiple times, and not really gotten it save for Holliday maybe…but overpaying for Fowler and Leake if dont think is the same as overpaying for PUjols, Price, Heyward even…which we swung and missed on because we put a line in the snad while other big bucks teams did not
our best shot at a superstar hitter is developing one…i don’t really see one…as Kelly is a catcher and never will get the headlines…O’Neill is intriguing but maybe just because he is fresh
OR…trading for one…is Myers a Superstar? borderline, but maybe on a better team in a bigger baseball town he woudl flourish… but Stanton is the big fish…ahem…to go for…despite the rumors he doesnt want to play in the midwest (not as if he has any choice, and i’m not sure they are even true)… HE is a big time player with a big time contract and is a big time superstar in an age wear statcast HR length notifications are all the rage… he is on a team that is selling itself…he has a contract that burdens them and he is at the height of his power…are there hurdles to go over to get him, is he going to leave in 2020 or get hurt again, is he goign to slump again…blah blah blah…yes all of that could happen…but that coudl happen with anyone…
if we cant outbid someone with money we might be able to do so with prospects…and on a team with no pitching…we have some of the most valuable and cost effective chips to offer…
Weaver + Hudson + Piscotty + Bader/Sierra + Hicks + everyone but Cmart and maybe Reyes is on the table…
we could add more pieces if necessary…change out ones if they want too…but we HAVE the prospects and the DEPTH of prospects to trade big right now…and we have the DEPTH of prospects in the right positions to do it as well…we can trade from outfield depth andwe can trade from starting pitching depth because we have those spots pretty much locked down…
-do they want Weaver AND Flaherty? sure we can do that…then we can re-sign Lynn or someone else…or even look to Lyons for a rotation spot or Gant etc etc
-do they want Pham and PIscotty…or Bader AND Sierra…sure…no problem….we have the depth to deal with it…(and adding Stanton makes it even easier as we only really need 1-2 decent OFers other than Fowler and Stanton)
-do they want PErez in there? sure we can do that…he is so far away we can deal with it
-do they want Reyes? well…that’s tough…but 1 for 1…..i might consider it..
-do they want Kelly for some reason (i doubt with Realmuto in there)? sure…i like Knizner and our depth at catcher behind Kelly…even with a down year i think JEremy still has something too…plus we can always sign a veteran catcher if need be…and we can keep drafting them…Kelly is awesome but i’d rather have Stanton than Kelly..we have the depth to make a big trade work…we have the money coming in to pay for a big time player…if we arent going to overpay with money to get a superstar and we dont have one coming in the farm (RIP Oscar) then we have to go trade for one…and fortunately we have the stuff to get one…
to me Stanton just fits too well as a target to not go hard after him… I am pretty sure itwont happen..but i wont be disappointed…because there are other answers for fixing the middle of the lineup…to me they just arent “perfect” fits…and perfect fits are rare…we have a rare opportunity actually get a perfect fit…and it won’t kill us long term or short term…
blah blah blah
To me i am looking at only big impact guys…otherwise we are right back where we areat now…
Stanton
Freeman
Donaldson
Myers
Ozuna
Yelich
(though im not totally sold on Yelich and Ozuna being exactly what we need)That’s about all i am interested in…that probably sets me up for disappointment…but when looking at the team…the big middle order bat is really what we are missing…something scary and consistent in the lineup…
it wont be cheap but it really is obvious that we need it filled
JD MArtinez coudl be a big middle order scary bat…but his defense crazy at it seems is falling off the mountain…i dont really know why…some say injury some say he was never good to begin with…but signing him long term as an NL OF seems a poor decision for us
Hosmer could be the real deal and worth the FA money…i think he makes us better…woudl it be enough better to deserve the big money he gets? dunno…how does he fit on the starting lineup? dunno that either…ramification everywhere
to me…a big trade is what the team needs…a big shake up…PLUS we kind of NEED to do a big trade to just clear up some breathing room on the rosters…
a big deal for Stanton is my first choice…hard to do…big mone yattached…but it woudl help
Myers isn’t as impressive as Stanton but could be a really nice bargain…even if the prospects dealt had to be big and plenty…
The Padres do like our players as they keep pilfering them in Rule 5…
That’s a good question BCC…
i think if we make the playoffs it will be a nailbiter…and if we bow out easily in the first series i think nothing changes…
however if we make it to the NLCS or even WS….i could see minor things being done as a real possibility…
though looking at how much we will need to do to protect good players on the 40man…and the glut of OFers and SPs…i’d have to think some kind of trade is almost required this offseason, even if just to clear up some spots
I am thinking we can move:
an OF or two or maybe even three
and SP or two
a couple other P
probably a MI or twowe need to fill 3 spots currently on the 25man for next season:
Lynn
Oh
DukeReyes gets one of them (probably as Oh replacement)
Weaver and Flaherty battle it out for Lynn’s spot
Tuivalala probably gets the Duke spot (as he would be gone if he doesnt make the25man)that would leave us with 2 freed up 40man spots (though there are a few others that could be freed up)
Garcia, Diaz, maybe Wong, Mejia, Sosa, Seferina, Alvarez are all fair game for a trade…
Piscotty, Grichuk, Pham, Bader, Sierra, JMart, several other lower level guys are all fair game
basically all the young SPs and Ps outside Reyes and one of Flaherty/WeaverI don’t really see how we can be a player for anything in the FA market without making a few trades…and if we re-sign Lynn it only makes the dealing harder
Basically…keeping even THIS team (even if it wins the WS) will be difficult without some offseason movement, if for nothign other than 40man roster management
Longwinded…blah blah blah