Ryan Helsley

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This topic contains 50 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by Avatar Cardinals27 7 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #30707
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    Cardinals27
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    Why has Baseball America seemingly shown a bias against pitcher Ryan Helsley? He continues to excel at every level. He has thrown 100 mph, has great makeup, and his other pitches are improving? He is certainly not PJ Walters, relying on control, and a great changeup. WHile some of his shorter outings are a concern, I think he can still be a dominant starter. Why he was not in the Cards top 30 is beyond me. He is at worst, a great setup reliever, which we could use now greatly.

    #30708
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    bccran
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    He’s been overlooked now for several years by “those in the know”(supposedly). It doesn’t make much sense.

    #30709
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    bccran
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    He’s been overlooked now for several years by “those in the know”(supposedly). It doesn’t make much sense.

    #30724
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    PadsFS
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    He didn’t get drafted overly high going in the fifth round. Then he signed for a $100k under-slot. He came from a division II university. He isn’t overly tall or athletic. He also hasn’t ever been particularly young for his level and the Cardinals themselves have let others like Dakota Hudson and Zac Gallen pass him by. He doesn’t have a plus secondary offering yet and his curve hangs a lot.

    Now that being said, he is a lot stronger than his frame indicates if you’ve ever seen him. Oklahoma strong. He doesn’t use a lot of effort when he throws as well, which is really good for a guy throwing upper-90s. And then his numbers are exceptional, although his walk rate has climbed some. I’d like to see him for a full half-season at AA. I also think he would be a great candidate for the AFL, but he will top out in innings pitched soon with 125-130.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by Avatar PadsFS.
    #30726
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    bccran
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    2015 – 1-1, 2.01
    2016 – 10-2, 1.61
    2017 – 10-2, 2.53

    Career to date – 21-5, 2.09

    Where was he ranked on TCN list
    voted on last off season?

    #30740
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    thejager
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    i just always assumed he was highly considered… guess he just blends in too much…maybe his last name has one too many “l”‘s in it

    no time like the present to amp up the love though!!

    Free Helsley!

    #30742
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    14NyquisT
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    Helsley’s rankings

    TCN Community 12-’16 = 13
    TCN Official…….. = 15
    MLB 2-23-’17…….. = NR
    MLB 7-16-’17…….. = 29
    MLB 8-7-’17……… = 24
    VEB Community 3-’17. = 26
    Redbird Daily 3-’17. = 15
    Prospects 1500…… = 26

    The Aggregate of the many lists that I used = 23. Dragged down by some “expert” lists.

    The most recent list that I created myself. =13

    IMO… Some have underrated Helsley for the last two seasons …. but not all.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 2 months ago by Avatar 14NyquisT.
    #30753
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    PadsFS
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    He was #23 on John Sickels’ list at MiLB Ball too.

    #30755
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    Brianpnoonan
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    When you bring it in the high 90s and have that kind of results…

    You’re underrated.

    Even if your secondary offerings are iffy. Even if youre right handed.

    At worst .. As said… Good setup guy and that is a heck of a resume.

    #30759
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    bccran
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    MLB.com had the following pitchers rated above Helsley in their mid 2017 Cardinal prospect rankings –

    Reyes
    Flaherty
    Hudson
    Alcantara
    Fernandez
    Gallen
    Hicks
    Gomber
    Woodford
    Seijas
    Jones
    Oviedo

    There’s something wrong with that.

    #30761
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    Brianpnoonan
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    Not necessarily… he could very well be roughly the fifteenth best pitcher in our system.

    What’s wrong is that our system is rated that low.

    #30764
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    bccran
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    Right now, he’s beating Fernandez, Woodford, Seijas, and Jones all over the place.

    #30765
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    Brianpnoonan
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    Fernandez is three years younger at roughly the same level he can afford an off year and still be a better prospect.

    The rest… Yeah.

    Note: I think he is too low on our list as well… It is just stupidly impressive when an arm like that can’t crack a lot of organizational top 20s much less pretty much every organizational top ten.

    #30767
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    mudville
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    I wish someone would talk about the movement on his fastball. Earlier this year I saw a comment that his fastball was coming in straight. Also, does he have a two-seamer? How much improvement on his breaking pitches? He doesn’t have a change up so far, I guess, and its a little late to start developing one especially if his breaking pitches are such a work in progress. No pitcher is going to have success at the major league level unless they have pitches with movement. I’m pretty sure that’s what makes Reyes the top pitching prospect in baseball.

    #30770
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    Brianpnoonan
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    Curt schillings stuff was mostly straight. But generally speaking I agree.

    #30771
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    forsch31
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    bccran

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    He’s been overlooked now for several years by “those in the know”(supposedly). It doesn’t make much sense.

    Who, exactly, are you calling “those in the know”?

    #30774
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    bccran
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    MLB.com, Baseball America, Bleacher Report, TCN writers, etc.

    #30791
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    CariocaCardinal
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    I dont think Hensley throws hard enough that he could have so much success if he didnt either change speeds or have movement. Even pinpoint control wouldn’t get you that good of results.

    #30795
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    forsch31
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    bccran

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    MLB.com, Baseball America, Bleacher Report, TCN writers, etc.

    So you are going to call out the TCN writers. One of them ranked Helsley higher than any other major ranking system out there and almost the highest overall. The other ranked him higher than almost all the major ranking systems and went into great detail as to why he ranked him that way.

    As of this month, he is ranked #14 by the TCN writer you are specifically referring to. Based on your comments above, you would only have an issue with 1 pitcher who is ranked above him. I would say that is pretty close then.

    If you still have a problem with his current ranking, I would be interested in seeing your top 20 prospect list.

    #30823
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    mudville
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    I agree with you, CC. It doesn’t make sense that he could have so much success without movement and/or change of speed. OTOH, he’s pitching at AA. Also, I can’t find anything that says he has a secondary pitch that he can count on.

    #30825
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    bccran
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    AA separates the men from the boys and he seems to be doing pretty well there.

    #30867
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    I have been looking forward all day to being educated.

    #30897
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    bccran
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    For example. Career ERAs –

    Weaver – 2.00
    Helsley – 2.11
    Hudson – 2.68
    Flaherty – 2.78
    Hicks – 2.85
    Gomber – 2.90
    Woodford – 3.20
    Alcantera – 3.98
    Fernandez – 4.02
    Seijas – 4.11

    #30899
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    forsch31
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    So where do you believe Helsley should be on the prospect list? What players listed above him do you feel should be below him?

    #30903
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    bccran
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    I believe Fernandez, Hicks, Woodford, Seijas, Jones, and Oviedo should be rated below him.

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