[thejager]

Miami
Tampa
Oakland

IMO are all on the hot seat for moving…moving of some teams woudl also be a part of the bigger picture too

You have to have something in Florida… Miami just got bought…i don;t think they move…they get to be the Florida team

Tampa goes to Puerto Rico
Oakland goes to Vancouver

then add

-Omaha (it would sell out every single game every year, look at how they love the College WOrld Series, not to mention the Nebraska Cornhuskers…they just need SOMETHING to do and they will go do it…this would work)

-Montreal…it will happen at some point…

This adds a middle america team, and adds 3 outside the US (even if PR is basically the US)

Vancouver and Montreal would work and both have been hosts to US major sports teams before
Lincoln works out of the lack of anything in that region and excitement
Puerto Rico works for the region and for the growth of the sport and excitement

If baseball wants to grow it needs to spread…soccer does so well in the rest of the world because it is everywhere…unless we bring baseball to other places it isnt going to come up on it’s own…these moves would show the willingness of MLB to expand into new markets

and just for giggles…go with this…shake it up big time…go TWO divisions East and West (keeps down on travel time and cost)…just the best 6 from each division…last 4 in are “wild cards” and play a best of 3 series against the others while the other 2 rest…then best of 7 for two rounds followed by World Series

[thejager]

HR game. We just didn’t have an extra one

Great job by Lynn and Brebbia

Offense didn’t do anything. It’s on them. Wong and Carp tried by Archer was pretty nasty all day.

Morrison just has such an easy swing but big time power to straight away.

Crazy.

Didn’t lose any distance at least.

Take the day off and come back Tuesday. We need to get on a run

Go Cards!

[thejager]

Saw Tovar PR for Mejia in the 7th ? Injury or on his way to Stl?

[thejager]

Also I did notice Tovar ran for mejia in the 7th at Memphis

Could be an indicator

[thejager]

woild make sense but not on 40 man but It would be fun

What I’m worried about though is that we almost lost the game tonight because we were playing 1man short when we had Yadi at 2nd and got that hit. Fowler could have scored IMO as a pinch runner but we couldn’t pinch run with needing the pinch hitter for Garcia later and Kelly being the backup catcher.

Playing any game down 1palyer any time is risky. Playing potentially 2men down when we need every win seems extremely risky if not dangerous. Gyorko needs 10 days you need to make that decision tonight same with Fowler. We can’t play down 2 or at worst 1 man for multiple games in a row. It’s basically a 2 man bench at that point with Kelly a non factor as backup catcher. That’s just not good.

[thejager]

Did you not read anything I posted?

It is an out loud remarking on going very deep with our pen utilizing the strength in matchups when rosters expand. Lessening stress on NeEDiNG the starters to go deep and being for free to pull them early if need be as well as being able to go to matchups early without not being able to do so later.

Our pen hasn’t been used in such a way as to not depend on individuals as much.

The pen isn’t that bad we just don’t have any superstars and no slam the door closer now. Though Lyons is starting to flex.

[thejager]

Agreed on Gomber.

And Knizner is really doing well. I remember during spring training seeing him get a lot more time with the big club (along with Ortega) instead of Jeremy I really wanted to watch him closer this year. Seems he is showing why their interest befor the season was shown

[thejager]

Again with the misinformation that the Cards don’t do anything in trades or signings or spend money or whatever. It’s been shown to nkt be true so many times you’d think the argument would die. But unless you trade for Trout or sign Kershaw it doesn’t count as every other player is a slug

Instead of trying to end discussions why not participate by throwing out your solutions or ideas?

[thejager]

Nice to finally get a feel good come back

Great for Pham

Sucks to see Gyorko out though

Mejia or Diaz should be on the move right now if think. Outside shot of Valera if we wanted to go with Garcia as the starter.

NIce work by Leake too. 4 runs in 7 innings is manageable. Especially when the offense wasn’t doing anything behind him.

Go Cards!

[thejager]

With our potential depth at pitcher and with lefties we could start matching up in the 4th of need be.

We go to 15 pitchers in September
5 lefties
5 starters
5 righties

If every starter goes 5 ON AVERAGE the we need 3-4 innings. So 3-4 per day. We could easily do that and still have room for matchups without taxing anyone.

It’d be a deep pen and lots to manage but we have quality in our depth.

Perhaps what we lack in superstardom in the pen could be made up for by not forcing anyone to be gone too dependently

[thejager]

Head to head against the Cubs will probably be the decider.

But you can’t say we’re out of it at least in the division until those games are played

7 left against the Cubs

5 for the Brewers

Wild card we have little say with no head to heads.

We end the season with 4 against the Cubs and 3 against the Brewers

If we can hold for now and maybe ge to 3.5. The get one more hit streak to end th season we’d be riding some pretty impressive momentum

With call ups we might just have the edge late in the season.

Good bench bats. Switch hitter like Valera. Power. Speed. Throw in some young stud arms and more quality lefties to go matchup very early.

If we treat september and especially the last week like a playoff series utilizing all our 40 man we could really be scary.

Last 7 games

CMart 6-7 Lyons Oh
Lynn 6-7 Brebbia Siegrest
Weaver 6 Sherriff bowman oh Lyons
Wacha 4-5 Gant Montgomery tuivalala Alcantara
Leake 4-5 Flaherty Siegrest bowman oh
Cmart 6 Brebbia Sherriff Alcantara
Lynn 5-6 everyone

Just thinking out loud. We might put everyone as available for that Cubs series.

But we don’t need compete games. We have quality enough with our callops and the amount. To shorten poor starts almost immediately

We gear up for those head to heads we could be pretty nasty to put away

[thejager]

Not thinking about fit at the moment. Just options

But whether we like it or not Carp can play 2b and 3b as well. And probably at least corner OF at averag. If it came to it I could see a platoon with Gyorko at 3b for Carp should we acquire a 1bman

As for Santana. He could be emergency catcher at least. But he did play outfield last year in the playoffs I believe

[thejager]

Interesting early list

Jaime at 17. Good for him.

Any thoughts on Santana? Not as an only thing we could use fix but let’s say along with another move for an impact bat for the outfield? Carlos has on base skills and a little pop

[thejager]

That’s a good point. But you could also point to Lee Smith. isringhausen. Smoltz. Exkersley. Percival and others that there are tim s when we need to get a slam the door veteran to provide the certainty for the back end. Which one doesn’t get when you project guys to do well or not in the very back end.

I think we have some guys that definitely Could be that kind of guy but we have less certainty with that. High hopes which at times works out brilliantly but if it fails you have little to fall back on for those high leverage situations.

I’d prefer to do it all from within with Alcantara Hudson and Reyes all looking like they could be great. But as I said even if I want that I’d still go out and get a veteran setup guy who could help teach those youngsters.

Oh is our vet out there and he can’t really speak to the kids up now. Cecil has a few years and saves but he isn’t exactly doing so great plus he’s a lefty. Losing Rosy meant also losing a guy who has been a dominant closer out there to help the youngsters deal with the new pressures forced on them and a cheerleader is different than a guy who can go out and show you

[thejager]

what?

he/she presents my argument as:

one bad outing of Wacha means i want to trade him (he posts this in another thread too),

i NEVER said i want to trade Wacha because he is having a few bad outings, and i have blatantly said so multiple times…

I dont care about disagreements…but when someone is combatting you on a position you arent even taking that is what can be frustrating..

I think you’d rightfully defend your position if someone “disagreed” with you about something you weren’t even saying….if you posted an article about your thoughts and someone laughed at you and misrepresented and disagreed with you about things you werent even saying i am SURE you would call it out…havent we seen that pretty clearly in the back and forth about HElsley and prospect rankings?

“attacked” may be too strong a word…so maybe the semantics are off…but still when someone starts their post rebutting you with “LOL” and then follows that with rebutting you on a position you arent saying that is pretty ridiculous…and worth defending… is it an “attack” maybe that is too harsh…i can see that…but LOLing at someone with a retort that obviously isnt about what you actually wrote is pretty crazy….

i am the first to criticize my own posts and opinions and recognize my faults all the time…but being “disagreed” with about something you didnt even say and even spoke specifically against is worth pointing out

i post my opinions all the time…i expect my opinion to not be agreed with…but the rebuttals are petty and not even a disagreement with me as they arent even about what i said…

I am moving on….but i wont stop defending my representation of my opinion…even if it is a clumsy opinion it deserves to be represented and disagreed with on it’s merit or lack thereof…not the idea of it’s merit

[thejager]

I just dont see the Wacha in the pen thing. his arm troubles seem to have to do with resting it, and bullpen use is pretty taxing like that. It’s been said 1000 times before but i think with his struggles last year and this year earlier i think there were times they could have made the move and chose not to, because of his arm issues.

Still it is a big toss up

To me… go hard after Davis…probably missing on him as someone will pay stupid money… so go after a guy like Neshek or Shaw or a good setup style veteran…give Rosy a 2yr deal with an option (maybe even player option) for not great money but we pay him to rehab so it goes both ways. Stick Reyes in the pen with hopes of him being the closer next year. Should Rosy return great, that would probably coincide with Reyes building his arm strength back up so he could move out of the role for a healthy Rosy and Reyes into the rotation if needed.

We all do need to remember that Reyes wasnt polished before his injury, his control was never perfect and his stuff got him a lot of outs. I think that plays better in the pen than the rotation. Iwant him in the rotation long term but a year in the pen to help with his control i think coudl do wonders for him long term

I am thinking the offseason should pretty eventful for the Cardinals all the way throughout the system. Including trades, position moves, role changes, FA signings etc.

We are at a point where we actually do have too much good pitching in the system as it is causing 40man concerns…so we need to move some of it and not just let it all go to Rule 5 and or waivers

I know this is a closer discussion but offseason ideas? (just one scenario, not even what i think is best)

SIGN Davis (or Neshek if we can’t get him)
SIGN Lynn
SIGN Hosmer
SIGN backup catcher…Hank Conger? (plenty of good vet backups)

TRADE Piscotty, Wacha, Hudson, Bader/Grichuk/Sierra for Stanton
TRADE Garcia for something
TRADE a current bullpen arm that has no options left (Bowman, Siegrest, Tuivalala, Lyons)…my pick is Tuivalala who has a lot of interest at the deadline…and with other signings trades would be somewhat expendable…Kevin is an option but his value is super diminished whic hi dont think is accurate for his true value…but clearing a lefty may be necessary)
TRADE some minor leaguers for minor leaguers ala Marco deal…we probably win a few and lose a few but moving some so as not to lose younger protection level talent is key…

Carpenter + Gyorko platoon at 3b both being able to be utilized in super utility role and handedness
Reyes to Pen (closer if we have to get Neshek or another)
Weaver to Rotation (CMart,Leake, Waino, Lynn, Weaver)…Flaherty waiting
Alcantara to pen role if we cant sign Davis if not, leave him

Wong, Fowler, Hosmer, Stanton, DeJong, Carp/Gyorko, Yadi, Pham (order is tough)
Conger, JMart, Diaz, Grichuk/Sierra/Bader, Carp/Gyorko
CMart, Lynn, Waino, Leake, Weaver
Davis, Reyes, Bowman, Lyons, Cecil, Siegrest, Brebbia

Lots Of wheeling and dealing here i know…again…im not saying it works well or is going to happen or even that i WANT it to happen…

the rotation still could be seen as weak, BUT it invests in our best commodity which is our young starting pitching depth…Flaherty, Alcantara, Gomber, Helsley, etc. all are big time prospects…and 2019 could feature Reyes in there for Waino and maybe even Flaherty in there for Leake shoudl he decline more…

the big signings and money spent on Stanton could be used as a clear show to the fans that we arent going to settle for close enough…AND it uses the new money…. AND it also is indication that we’d rather invest now before the craziness of the FA period with MAchado and HArper the following year being absolutely nuts….we maybe get more value for our dollar in this lean year….and the impact of Stanton is equivalent and potentially cheaper than any big signing in the following FA offseason… Hosmer and Stanton add to our lineup what is absolutely missed, Davis plugs the back end, and Lynn fortifies the rotation

man i blather on…sorry folks….all the good discussion just had me thinking….so i spat it out

sorry you have to scroll down a to pass it if you dont want to read…

at the end of the day…i say go big for Davis or go for veteran to help…we have lost so many games late that a real fix seems necessary…i do like Reyes as a closer though…

[thejager]

I agree Brian…

I dont advocating trading a good cheap good starter like Wacha

I am not jumping on a few bad outings… in fact i really want to keep him, in fact the only reason i woudl advocate trading him would be IF he was NOT bad (if you actually read my posts this woudl be clear)

with the returns given for Quintana and Gray, good starting pitching with control and cheap cost go ALONG way in value…it would be unwise for us to not make him available if we could get a return that maxes his value or goes above. Shoudl he only be So So the rest of the way his value woudl diminish and I woudl be against trading him at low value. I think he’s way more valuable to us than he is as a trade chip unless his value is very high

It’s like I am being attacked for a position i am not even taking.

If we had Piscotty, Wacha, Pham, Grichuk, Gyorko, even Garcia ( and maybe even Carp, and Leake) all available in the offseason…adding that kind of MLB proven talent to a couple prospects would go along way in getting BIG upgrade pieces back

Only using prospects is just not going to do it if we take Reyes and Kelly off the table

[thejager]

i like Forsch’s idea…offer 10mil-ish for 2 years…let’s him not worry and focus on his rehab…plus he would potentially be ain a position to become a star closer again. instead of a reclamation project for another team…o one will sign him as a closer until he shows he is healthy…best place to show off how good he is is here in stL where they already have some confidence in him

he has the surgery next week i think…he could be back by the summer that has value…even if he makes it back by fall that has value…

i just wish we could use the 60day DL in the offseason to get that extra 40man spot

[thejager]

trading Wacha has merit…but knee jerk reaction trading him is not what i mean… should he finish strong…he will have tremendous value… and in THAT case trading him in a deal for a major upgrade somewhere else could be very worthwhile and definitely on the table

trading him for nothign is not…if he is so so the rest of the way…we definitely keep him and build off the successes of this year

[thejager]

I think they will have to search for offensive help via trade…not necessarily a signing…so that means players moving… with the fullness of the 40man i think players moving will be necessary there as well, i like Hosmer but will be interested where the money goes with him..but a trade seems likely

I think Davis, Holland, Neshek, Gregerson, Oh, Reed, Shaw…all could be had and all have dealt with not being THE guy before… relief market seems pretty robust for the type of set/closers we could be looking for while we sort out who the next closer is

we will have some money and we have players to trade…i think solving it from within is a definite possibility but i think we will definitely go out and get a good veteran to help with the bullpen

[thejager]

At least we have Diaz who is just as mercurial potentially…but farther down we have some seemingly capable SS options and a few quite intriguing ones…

I had my doubts about DeJong before the season, i didnt think he was ready defensively…i love eating crow on that…but i didnt doubt his bat…i knew the Ks were there, but i was more worried about the defense…which still has some work to be done, but is definitely passable and at times quite nice..

i didnt think he’d hit 20 Hrs for sure…but even if he plays decent defense as he has done this year…and even just hits .250ish with 15 Hrs…. that has value, and while not great it would be workable with other players like Diaz in tow

Instead of him being Black or White why not consider Gray? The polar argument just seems to further the belief that players are only worth caring about if they are ALL STAR centerpieces or worthless scrubs.

Dejong has already surprised many people, myself included, why not just let him keep playing and determine his value as it comes instead of projecting the value of his future failures or accomplishments

[thejager]

Weaver and Piscotty should have been traded for Gray…throw in an OF to sweeten the deal, but it seems that deal was right there for the taking…

doing so allows us to let Lynn walk while giving the QO
gives us a solid Lynn replacement for good value of money
helps us out for this year
protects us from Waino not coming back and/or Leake or Wacha digressing
allows for dealing Wacha to be a profitable offseason option if he keeps up his good year
clears a 40 man spot or two depending on the thrown in player

a deal for a veteran arm should have been done…we all wanted it even if it would have been labeled as a do nothign move… NEshek was had for almost nothing and he’d look pretty good in our bullpen right now…Madson, Dolittle, and several others were options as well…Clippard even was had for almost nothing and while he had a poor year so far he still would have helped

I think we could probably still land Colon if we wanted from the Sept. waiver period…he’s be exactly who he is…which is a coinflip…which might be better than our options right now

and i am still a supporter of LEake and want Waino to come back… but expecting Weaver and Flaherty or whomever to potentially take Leakes spot to walk in and dazzle from day one is unrealistic…

cray how we have spiraled since Rosy and Waino went down… no matter what you think…they are/were important to keeping the rest of the team feeling good

[thejager]

Sherriff up for Rosy on 40 man

remove Gilmartin to give Flaherty a start for Leake…or bring up Alcantara or someone else to add some spark to the pen

a decision on Waino is looming as well

still we need to clear a spot for Rosario for 3rd catcher on Sept. 1 too…

tough decisions need to be made… which again is why a trade before the deadline where we moved a couple pieces would have been nice..

i like Weaver and Piscotty…but Gray for Weaver and Piscotty would have been a pretty good move IMO…boosting the rotation, clearing an OF spot…helping make the decision on Lynn leaving or not easier…clearing a 40 man spot…… im sure it wasnt as simple as it sounded but i think we lost an opportunity there…

we arent done, but the eroding rotation and bullpen is very worrisome….. we may need to outright some guys before the season ends

Wick, Mayers, Gant, Gilmartin, one of the middle infielders further down, Lucas, Sherriff…i dunno… but when the fans know we have good young pitching waiting and we dont bring them up when we need it they start to grumble, reasoning because of 40man issues fall on deaf ears when we see the playoffs as a possibility

[thejager]

Good for Sherriff

still…one has to wonder why Montgomery keeps getting passed by, he’s been pretty impressive all year

[thejager]

bad loss…but really it was Lynn hitting the shirts of two Padres and getting himself into a count where he had to throw a weak fastball over the plate to a guy who as it turns out was deciding to be on fire yesterday.

Even then we were tied when Lynn left

relief corps was the problem, and it’s tough to not understand by how much they have been stressed lately

I’m thinking Rosenthal to have TJ or at least be out for the year ie. 60 day DL. Call up Flaherty to take Leake’s next turn. When LEake comes back send him or Weaver to the pen. Make a decision on Wainwright before the week is out. If he isnt really going to be able to pitch 60 day DL him. we can at least clear a couple 40man spots for guys like Flaherty and Montgomery. Release Gilmartin and then bring up Alcantara or whoever the best flamethrower is right now. Maybe Hudson. Put them in the pen to shake it up.

Gilmartin, Rosy, Wainwright are three 40 man spots if we want to get them.
Flaherty, Montgomery, Alcantara/Hudson

If we really think Wainwright can come back, what is his role? I’d love to have him close as he has the head for it. I think he’d be worth a look, btu if he cant get it above 90 I dont see the point. Maybe he could still work his magic for 3 outs. It’d be fun to try, but if he isnt healthy then we cant try it. And if we cant do that with him and he cant go 5 good innings, then 60 day DL him and let him be a cheerleader and extra coach for the younger guys, maybe even send him out to the pen during the games

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