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RIchard has been pitching pretty well lately…a crafty pitcher he definitely can be a problem for batters..and with us being so young i worry they may get impatient… nevertheless…i am optimistic they will figure it out.
Lance’s fastballs make me a little worried as the other team has a lot of guys who can hit fastballs…but Lance has dealt with that forever so i am confident!
Go Cards!
Pretty obvious we weren’t going to protect alvar x and we’re confident someone would snatch him so we got something for him which might help us in the stretch run for the playoffs
We also get the slight chance to negotiate before he hits FA should we want to
Sooner i think you make some good points…
though in regards to defense and baserunning…our defense has gotten a lot better since the initial horrible play…and baserunning issues still persist some but that has also gotten better
i see how Matheny has gotten through this year and still has a team within striking distance of the playoffs as somethign that is what i want in a manager..
everyone complains he needs to win with who is out there…well he is…he got no help from the higher ups to fix issues…instead he has found a way to deal with the poor play and shaky parts of the team to keep the team in the hunt
it is admirable that he has been able to keep this team in it until now…he is basically fielding a AAA team right now and is till making a push…why does he get no credit for getting THIS team to THIS point…
this team coudl have caved several times this year and just given up and still had the same team we see out there…most fans gave up on them after about 20 games…yet they keep rolling with punches…some self inflicted at times…and yes they are going to struggle and yes Matheny will make some mistakes for all the hindsighters to attack him on…and YES he is a bit gruff and condescending with media at times…
but so what? he has a AAA team out there combined with a bunch of underperforming MLB regulars with all respect to Yadi and Wong…maybe Gyorko though his 2nd half has been iffy…
should we have moved on from PEralta and Broxton sooner? maybe… should we have gone to DeJong earlier? maybe? Same with Pham? maybe? shoudl we have made some trades to help the pen or the rotation or the lineup? maybe?
but despite all that we are still right there…will we get in? I dont know…but if we do or we dont MAtheny deserves some respect for keeping THIS team in there and diminishing some of the poor play and problems that have cropped up during the year…
the defense has gotten better, the underperforming players have gotten marginally better…the youngsters have come up and helped…almost every single one of them has done well…
THIS team still has a shot…there are a lot of others teams who gave up as soon as it got hard…this team has not…that deserves some respect to be given to the players and the managers… the front office? well…i am behind them 100% but they seemed to give up by not doing anythign to help the team this year…and again despite that the team still is goingfor it and playing well enough to have a shot…
it doesnt really matter if i think baseball players are worth their salaries…it’s how they are perceived and valued in the business
if WAR is legit then Stanton seems to be worth his contract…
add in the rising salaries every year he will definitely be a bargain
i dont think the argument about him not wanting to come to the midwest is valid until we hear it from his mouth or at least some other mouths outside of an unknown person via a radio show
many teams cant afford him because even at his reasonable salary he woudl tip their budgets over…i get them wanting to get him for less money… but the Cardinals are not one of those teams…
even if wee added him and took on Lynn again…we would be fine…we have a very team friendly rotation when it comes to money (especially once Waino comes off the books)…bullpen is deep with young money…even the lineup is full of low cost players and low cost players backing them up…
the only argument against him to me…is that he is injury prone (not counting his HBPs)…and his production has went very far up and very far down so far in his career…i worry he will develop a flaw that teams will take advantage of…THEN we’d be sitting on an albatross contract for a guy who wont do the think we want him to do….though even if he halved his HR total and hit .250 he’d be an asset for the fear in the lineup and his OF arm and defense is pretty good…
i still think it s not that likely… however looking at the MArlins pitching depth…we definitely have the young talent to offer to help them in the young cheap pitching department, perhaps better than any other team out there…we may not have the best hitters to offer, but we do have quality OFs to offer who are not bad…and cheap…or affordable (Piscotty)… IMO we match up pretty well with what the Marlins might want…if i was the MArlins i’d be chucking Stanton and putting in enough money to gain 4 solid cheap players who may not be All Stars but will help them cheaply afford to build their farm back up…quantity over quality to SOME degree
i get the reasoning of Fowler to Baltimore…but i dont think they will want Cecil especially for his salary… im not sure how much we’d have to pay down…and to me THAT is the key in that kind of deal with them… so how much would you pay down? Fowler isnt as bad as everyone seems to think…and had we paid him a lot less wouldnt we be happy with it? and thus…if we pay what it woudl cost to make Fowler’s salary reasonable for another team wouldnt we be paying someone else to get the player we’d be happy with?
I think it is big overpay for Simmons…but we differ…you seem to extremely undervalue Gyorko and Carp’s worth…whiel i still think they have very good value…we differ…id like Simmons…but then what do we do with DejOng? 3b? 2b? 2b seems locked down with Wong…and are we making the offense better with Simmons in there? I’d be up for the defensive upgrade all day…but we’d need to add 2 big bats to that lineup i think to even out the potential decrease in offensive production shoudl Simmons come back down to earth with his bat…which is likely IMO
Khris Davis or Grichuk? I think we’d be very happy with Grichuk if he had 37 HRs instead of his 19…to go with his low average and Ks
Story and DeJong? tough call there…not sure who i like longer term…DeJong has yet to have a chance at a sophomore slump like Story…but Story’s injury might be a bigger deal to his performance that we can see
I dont think Castellenos is available…Tigers seem to really like him (i live in Detroit)…and with Verlander, MArtinez, Upton all leaving i think they are looking to Castellenos to become their middle of the lineup guy…
I’d love to snag McMahon….thoguh he seems to be switching to 1b…though how much that has to do with his defense and how much it deals with Arenado at 3b in tMLB is hard to discern…. still, i liek the look and i’d be very happy with a deal for him
Same goes for Moran…though i am less high on him but he seems about ready too…
Valera can play 2b, LF, RF…SS in a big pinch…not sure on 3b with him
he is a switch hitter…that hits for high average and always has…even added a little pop this year
and most of all
He is on the 40man already…Oniell and Wisdom are notdo we really want to throw away Valera without giving him a shot to impress? the guy is built for a super utility role and bench asset for late game ABs
Id like to see Wisdom and Oneill too, but i dont want to throw away people from our 40man just to see them for a couple weeks….
If Carp is done for the year…or if Waino is done for the year or even Gyorko… we could 60 day them and add Wisdom, and Oneill….if all three went down we coudl even add Montgomery
how is Stanton not worth his contract as is?
plus he can opt out in 2020 (which i think he undoubtedly will because i think he can get even more)
Guy is at 53 HRs and is carrying the MArlins into contention… he is THE most feared bat in all baseball right now…which is what we need?
I think all teams WANT to have the Marlins eat some…who woudlnt…but i dont see why we wouldnt take it all… we have the money and he brings the fans with his HR ball no matter what…we have the room in the contract as is basically..adding Lynn too makes it tight though
but so what? he alone makes the lineup work better and moves us up a rung in the Central again
His contract isnt even that bad…especially compared to what is coming after next year for Machado (down year)…and HArper (knee injury)
He’d end his career (if he didnt leave in 2020) at 37 which isnt even DONE for many players…
also he only has 3 years where his contract is over 30mil (32mil)…and it isnt even his last couple years
His contract is a pretty good bargain even if he drops in production at 35…and if he leaves in 2020 the most we’d pay is 26mil which is nothign for his impact…
2018 Contract details by year 28 $25,000,000 – $25,000,000 $25,000,000
2019 Contract details by year 29 $26,000,000 – $26,000,000 $26,000,000
2020 Contract details by year 30 $26,000,000 – $26,000,000 $26,000,000
2021 Contract details by year 31 $29,000,000 – $29,000,000 $29,000,000
2022 Contract details by year 32 $29,000,000 – $29,000,000 $29,000,000
2023 Contract details by year 33 $32,000,000 – $32,000,000 $32,000,000
2024 Contract details by year 34 $32,000,000 – $32,000,000 $32,000,000
2025 Contract details by year 35 $32,000,000 – $32,000,000 $32,000,000
2026 Contract details by year 36 $29,000,000 – $29,000,000 $29,000,000
2027 Contract details by year 37 $25,000,000 – $25,000,000 $25,000,000
2028 Contract details by year 38 $25,000,000 – $25,000,000 $25,000,000very nice work by Martinez…impressed he figured it out in the 8th and 9th when he was searching
we have 7 still against the Cubs and 3 against the Brewers
Those Cubs series will determine the central…for us or the Cubs or the BRewers IMO…the last 7 games (4Cubs and 3 Brewers will be crazy)…it might come down to the last game
I like Seager but why would the Mariners trade him? They have no depth behind him
Still…it’s a nice under the radar type of look
to me an under the radar guy would be Ryan Healy from the A’s…
The A’s are kind of jumbled up with infielders and like Chapman at 3b. Healy has big power is pretty young and his average isnt the worst…though he strikes out a ton and his fielding isnt great…he might be a nice value pick up for a youngster with big power…perhaps he transitions to 1b eventually I am not sure… i think the A’s are souring on him with the rise of Olson and Chapman…but even so they do have the DH and perhapas he better projects as DH anyways…
just another outside the box idea
also… i’d love Simmons but his value is so high right now i doubt we move for him…he is batting so much better than usual i dont think i woudl want to pay for this offense outburst when why i want him is for his glove
Hosmer signing i do like…
Britton? eh…
also…Gscott… every deal is trading players underperforming with big contracts… those are not easy to move without eating money and getting nothing back…as we saw with LEake…they all have good value on the Cardinals if they can turn around…and all of them (Carp (injured), Diaz (Sophomore slump), Fowler (not terrible stats but for the contract look worse), Cecil (same as Fowler)) All have shown they can be very big and productive players on a team.
PErhaps give them more than 1 “bad” year before throwing them away for nothing….as what you propose is someone taking out “bad” players and giving us good ones back…if they are so bad in your view and need to be off the team…why would anyone else want them?
I am all for Simmons and maybe even Britton…but those deals IMO are giving up way too much value, and wouldnt either be offered, or accepted if offered as it woudl show them just by offering it that those players were lost causes or albatrosses and not worth anything but salary dumps
Simmons deal?
Hudson + Diaz + Bader + another pitching prospect Gomber? Hicks? (overpaying for Simmons offense)Britton deal?
Pham + Sosa + Arozerana (or pitching prospect)A’s deal for Khris Davis? How about Davis and Healy?
Flaherty (we know they liked him from the almost Sonny Gray deal) + Piscotty (same) + Tuivalalathrow in signing Lynn and Hosmer
not saying any of these work…or they’d all work well together at all (in fact im sure theyd require other moves)…just throwing out ideas too!
lots of starters do much better the first time through….than after that…
Wacha is a good guy to have going forward, but also could be a big trade chip with his cost being so low…i want to keep him, but if we could get a SOnny Gray deal or Quintana deal…i’d find a replacement elsewhere i think…
MElancon and Samardija?
I get the idea but that seems an awful lot for an overpriced closer who has fallen off the cliff worse than Oh…and Samradijia is overpriced version of Leake with a few more Ks
Fowler hasnt been all bad…his contract isa bit much, but he hasnt been throw away bad…and im defintiely not losing him without freeing up money
Piscotty isnt really being paid all that much, and he has had one down year he is way more valuable than this IMO
Cecil started off terrible, was pretty dominant fora while and now he is just kindfo middling…way over priced for what we are paying but i dont see why anyone would want to pay him what we are unless we ate his salary and as it isnt worth dealing him away AND [paying him yo uho9ld him and try to get him right… id be all for moving him if we could find someone who woudl take the whole salary
I just think you are severely undervaluing those 3 players and extremely overvaluing the SF players, but i applaud the out of the box thinking…neither team gets to salary dump…just same salary with new players (its not exact but its close enough for the analogy)… only thing for me is that Fowler has had a good year…not great…not what we wanted…and probably not enough to warrant his salary but it isnt a bad year
as for Yelich…i love the idea of Yelich, but i dont see him being as useful without another bigger bat to go with him…but i’d give up a lot for him if i knew we coudl snag another bat for the middle of the lineup…he seems to be a good value and is trending up
How about?:
Yelich trade (Piscotty + Hudson + Bader + Sosa)
(maybe add Barraclough to the deal…and we add in some more)Hosmer signing (probably have to overpay a bit…7yr deal would take him to 35 i think)
Wacha pitched brilliantly…i know we all feel he is always injured but he has put together a pretty good season
well i disagree with you….
as i said in that quote “I” don’t see why it couldnt succeed… I don’t see anything until it happens… i dont give up on seasons and decisions
you have no idea how well Flaherty and Weaver will perform next year… you have no idea how anyone will perform next season… so i don’t see how you can “see” anything… you can pessimistically THINK it might happen…you may even WANT it to happen… but you don’t know anything… and neither do i… until i see it happen
you want to be pessimistic…go ahead… but i am not going to do so… you want to see failure, go for it… i look and see promise and potential…
also i typed all that very calmly and was happy to do so…that you THINK i am “riled up” by your pessimism and snide and nasty comments only makes me feel better…. I LOVE typing out why i am optimistic and happy…i love it so much…it makes me VERY happy to have a reason to type it out…it made my morning that i got to start off the day filled with a reaffirmation about why i like baseball and the Cardinals… your constant antagonism does nothing but make me feel better about my positions and thoughts…
also…that team WONT be the team if you really read what i wrote…the Cardinals always make moves, and have shown no indications that they wont make moves again this year…you may not like them…heck i might not like them…but they will make moves…show me when they have made ZERO moves? and done NOTHING in an offseason?
I see big upside possibilities from Flaherty and Weaver… Reyes is a big arm for the pen at least, Alcantara now seems to be a part of the pen too…looks to be an upgrade to me too..even a late season ROsy might be awesome
id love a vet reliever to help teach the kids…but that isnt absolutely necessary
Lynn seems a good signing…but we may go with another starter shoudl we need to… i just dont see us adding Hudson or Gant or Alcantara to the rotation full time…if we don’t get a big time starter like Lynn…we’ll bring in someone to help…and bide our time until Hudson or Alcantara or Reyes are ready for the rotation
lineup has plenty of upside even as it is…just with some guys returning to norms…they all might do it….maybe only one or two…maybe none…but we have depth…sure we might see some regression too…but we have good talent…
yeah we still need a big bat IMO…RF maybe 3rd or 1b…trades seem more and more likely…but we could go FA too..and even if not for the big bat we should see movement
bench is good and will be again next year
if had to guess for worse case scenario for offseason moves…and it’s just a guess, not even what I WANT or even THINK will happen…just a guess as of today for pessimism…
FA signing of low tier starter on 1yr deal…Feldman/ Tillman like
FA signing of vet for pen…mid tier..low years…Neshek like
FA signing of mid tier hitter, couple year deal…BRuce…Alonso…
FA signing of backup catcher
trade involving at least 1 outfielder prospect or MLB player for similar minor/major league league level at another position with power
trade involving at least 1 MI prospect or 25man player for minor league prospect at another position corner infield (for one of the two trades)wont make a lot of people happy, but woudl work if the plan is to wait until the following offseason
optimistically:
re-sign Lynn
trade for impact MLB level player utilizing MLB and minor league players, probably OFs involved heavily
FA signing of backup catcher 1 yr
FA signing of veteran reliever for short years(Lynn, Stanton, Conger/Rivera/Hundley, NEshek/SHaw)
pie in sky:
Lynn
Stanton
Hosmer
Shaw
backup catcher
(this undoubtedly would mean moving big prospects and MLB players and money, everyone but Reyes is on the table…Flaherty and Weaver included means probably additional FA signing of another low end starter like Feldman)Stanton deal something like… Piscotty, Hudson, Bader, Kelly (they move Realmuto to 1b)
Carp (3b), Pham, Hosmer, Stanton, Dejong, Fowler, Yadi, Wong…that’s fun
Carp and Gyorko both serve as super utility guys…Wong can lead off on days Carp isnt in there
Carp and Gyorko split time at 3b getting more time by playing 2b and 1b from time to time
Carp at 3b isnt the greatest at 3b on defense but he wouldnt be there alone…just thinking out loud…none of it WILL happen…but i like thinking about it…from the pessimistic moves to the crazy ones
Alcantara on his way up too it seems…
seems with rosters expanding tomorrow we are going to have some more arms at least
Gant and Alcantara adds some quality to the pen…a long man to spell the youngsters if they need the innings…Alcantara for late inning flame OR multiple innings too
tough one to see… thought he’d get a chance to right his ship for the final month…
maybe he will pass through and we can hold onto him…
can’t imagine the vets are going to like this move
crazy to see Kevin go…
sa for the cardinals…we still have 7 games against the Cubs…3 more against the BRewers…those 7 against the Cubs are what will decide the division… you can make up a lot of ground in head to heads..
Are we maybe showcasing Flaherty for a big trade involving him in the offseason? If he does well enough, his value would skyrocket for the trade market we will probably be heavily involved in.
The thing with a Donaldson deal is that it IS a band aid….a band aid that bridges to more potential quality FA offseason in 2018… He will still require a decent trade, but now that he wont be traded during the year means he wont be allowed to give up a compensation pick if traded during next year after being acquired this offseason. Which lowers his value some, only getting one year lowers his value, his relatively poor year lowers it some too (though he has come on strong late)…he still will cost some, but less than a month ago…
you also get the opportunity, if you like him to re-sign him if you want to try that, he is one of the good FAs (even if a bit older than the others) for that offseason.
Still, he is a band aid, and if we are just trying to hold our money until that offseason then spending a little bit NOW but not tying any up after this year, puts us in a good place to shovel money into the following offseason while still upgrading the team for next year. It woudl all come down to who is lost in that deal…
to me…if i wanted him i would have done it early July…he might have been just what we needed to get in this year… now…without getting a compensation pick, and probably losing too many good prospects…i just dont see it being as worth while…
To me if we are going to lose good prospects, then we should get really good stuff back, i’d rather go all in on a Stanton deal, and sign Lynn.
One other thing i wondered about the Leake deal and subsequent calling up of Flaherty…was whether we were using the rest of this season not just to evaluate Flaherty whiel trying to get into the playoffs, but also whether we using this time with Flaherty to show him off to other teams as we may consider using him as a big part of a trade in the offseason
Think how valuable Wacha looked after he came up and dominated early…with his cheapness and high value we could have gotten a king’s ransom for him…
MAYBE we are doing that with Flaherty (and maybe even Weaver too)
If they don’t, then they don’t…and i listen to the explanations. And i get excited about the next season, and what would probably be considered a rebuild year. And i root for them all the way. I root for the players, the managers, and the management. The team has a plan, and their plans have produced winning teams consistently, even if we take 3 years off (assuming we wouldnt make it in a rebuild year), that plan that has been in place has worked. Franchise management is no different than the game itself. If you get to bottled up into the results of one pitch, or 1 out, or 1 run, or 1 inning , or 1 start, or 1 player, or 1 contract, or 1 win or loss, or 1 first half, or 1 season, then you arent really watching baseball. Baseball is about it’s long game. We love 1 4 HR games, but baseball values the overall stats more.
This year and last year the team was close, injuries last year, and underperforming this year kept this team from hitting it’s stride, but even in that the team is/was close to still succeeding.
Perhaps if they do nothing in the offseason, then they are committing to their young assets (which arent bad), and giving them a year before the crazy 2018 FA offseason where very high level quality players will be abundant, and should our youngsters not pan out, there will be ample options for investing.
I am not placing “all my hopes for next season” on them doing something. I am a fan of the CARDINALS, not the way i THINK the Cardinals team should be or assembled. If they run out there with:
CMart, Waino, Wacha, Weaver, Flaherty
Reyes, Lyons, Kevin, Cecil, Bowman, Tuivalala, Brebbia (Rosy returns late)
Carp, Pham, DeJong, Fowler, Gyorko, Yadi, Wong, Piscotty
Kelly, Grichuk, JMart, Garcia, VoitI don’t see why it couldnt succeed.
Sure, if i had it my way, i’d do things different, but I dont see why i wouldn’t root for that team to win. the lineup is similar to this year, and this year it underperformed, the rotation is heavy with youngsters, but they are good top end youngsters and one could argue Weaver>Leake, the bullpen is thin but we add Reyes add the back end with his stuff and it coudl be impressive, the bench is the same but a year older, and our bench is good this year.
All that savings could be good going into the following offseason. Where perhaps we see parts of the lineup or pen or whatever that could be spent on.
The thing is…that won’t happen… the ownership has repeatedly said they know they have work to do this offseason. They said that last offseason too, and whether you like the moves or not they made moves and spent money. Cecil loks overpaid now, but the move made sense, Fowler looked a bit much to me and i wasnt a big fan but the spent on the need and he has played pretty well, but he wasnt being brought in to play cleanup or be a middle order scary hitter. They paid CMart and Yadi and PIscotty. And again whether you like the moves in hindsight or not, they made them
SO…the team WILL make moves this offseason. Will they be for big FA’s or big trades? I don’t know, but it will make moves.
AND…even if they don’t i can get excited about the team anyways. And if they make moves i dont agree with, i will still get excited about he team. I trust the long range planning of the admins because they have proven long term to know how to make things work. Even a 2-3 year lack of postseason wont change that fact. I am fan of the CARDINALS. I complain as much as anyone, well maybe not, but i complain a lot too…but it doesnt change my hope or respect for the CARDINALS. I dont always agree or get along with my siblings, but that doesnt mean i dont support their decisions once they are made.
I will definitely be interested in the reasoning should ownership do nothing. I probably wont like it, but i will still tune in every game ST and regular season. If anyone else wants to show their support for the favorite team, the team they say they are a “Fan” of by not showing up or tuning in, or going on boards and spouting and anger and disillusion….well that is on them…I don’t quite understand it, but it isnt my place to understand it because i dont want the team to lose just to make me feel better about my decisions about what decisions woudl work better. Being a “fan” TO ME is about supporting the team and organization through good and bad decisions, long term, beyond players and managers, and GMs and owners even.
Once this season is over whether in early Oct. or November all i will be doing is looking forward to the next season so i can enjoy Cardinals baseball. Not Cardinals baseball from the 80’s or Cardinals baseball from the 2000’s, but Cardinals baseball as i watch it. ANd just like watching any one game, pitch or AB, some of them are good….some of them are bad, but i woudlnt be watching baseball if i didnt see and enjoy all of it.
Go Cardinals!
tip your cap folks…that was pretty amazing by Broxton… I think he deserves the save more than the pitcher
With Leake leaving (as well as one would have to assume at least a majority of his salary)
I think we are going to re-sign Lynn… possibly even first thing in the offseason in our little window where only we can talk to him
And to me it is a good move…when Waino steps away after next year Lynn will slide into the veteran role for teaching… him and CMart are a good 1-2…in 2019 you add Wacha, Reyes, Weaver, Flaherty…3 get spots
Cmart, Lynn ,Wacha, Weaver, Flaherty (Reyes taking the closer role in 2018 and keeping it going forward…or at least until we know what to do with Wacha)I think there was a good chance we were going to re-sign Lynn anyways…but now, it just makes a lot of sense in so many ways
add to this a move for Stanton or a signing of Hosmer…JD as an outside possibility along with MOose…as well as maybe a trade for Donaldson… while also snagging a backend veteran like Neshek or Shaw
regardless…adding a big bat is going to happen…who it is and how it happens is the question unanswered…
however if it is a FA signing ….other trades will need to happen regardless just to clear up space…the LEake trade clears up pitching depth issues if we sign Lynn… but the outfield jam is still a problem…and a trade will still almost definitely have to happen
i’d love for us to spend big and make a big show that we wont be passed over….
big aggressive?
Sign Wade Davis, Lynn, Hosmer….trade for Stanton
it will be expensive in prospects, and big time moniesmore pessimistic?
sign Lynn, Neshek, trade for Donaldsonsomewhere in between?
a middle order bat isnt going to be cheap and is obviously a flaw in the team…the ownership will not get away with another year of not solving that issue…last offseason they used the excuse of Carpenter turning into that guy…ti didnt work…and no one else has stepped up…they have to do something about it…there really arent any valid excuses for solving that problem in house anymore…
I iwsh it werent the case, i wish Carp and Piscotty woudl have blossomed into what we need…but they just havent…and we need outside help to right the ship…
it’s not as if the Cardinals havent done this plenty of times before…
still…shoudl be interesting…Leake trade really stunned me…perhaps we arent even done for THIS season even?
blah blah blah…
Would this indicate that we are leaning towards re-signing Lynn?
Feels like it to me
Leake leaving clears money
It also clears a spot for a youngster tooI’m kind of shocked this deal actually happened
Thanks Leake! Even with the ups and downs I was happy he was a Cardinal!