August 25, 2017 at 9:11 am #31587Bw52ParticipantPaid - Annual
IMHO Cards should try and deal for Bullpen help using OF surplus or Gyorko or Carpenter.Wainwright can`t be counted on .Wacha is doing okay now but he is still a health risk.Lynn a FA.So you have
Wainwright -big question mark?
Weaver-still a rookie
Flaherty-young untested a MLB level
Gant -some MLB experience
Gomber -at AA
Dakota Hudson- at AAA many think he will end up in the bullpen
Alex Reyes-figuring he might be bullpen guy until arm strength builds back up.
Still those are players who have major injury questions or are untested at MLB level.August 25, 2017 at 9:29 am #31589858booyahParticipantFree
Internally I agree it could be Wacha or Alex Reyes. Reyes hasn’t really thrown a ton of innings in the minors and I feel were asking too much of him to come of TJ and deliver 175 innings. Wacha on the otherhand likely was bullpen bound if it wasn’t for the Reyes injury.
In a perfect world you’d trade for Donaldson and sign Davis but they’ll likely do nothing.August 25, 2017 at 11:00 am #31598thejagerParticipantPaid - Annual
I just dont see the Wacha in the pen thing. his arm troubles seem to have to do with resting it, and bullpen use is pretty taxing like that. It’s been said 1000 times before but i think with his struggles last year and this year earlier i think there were times they could have made the move and chose not to, because of his arm issues.
Still it is a big toss up
To me… go hard after Davis…probably missing on him as someone will pay stupid money… so go after a guy like Neshek or Shaw or a good setup style veteran…give Rosy a 2yr deal with an option (maybe even player option) for not great money but we pay him to rehab so it goes both ways. Stick Reyes in the pen with hopes of him being the closer next year. Should Rosy return great, that would probably coincide with Reyes building his arm strength back up so he could move out of the role for a healthy Rosy and Reyes into the rotation if needed.
We all do need to remember that Reyes wasnt polished before his injury, his control was never perfect and his stuff got him a lot of outs. I think that plays better in the pen than the rotation. Iwant him in the rotation long term but a year in the pen to help with his control i think coudl do wonders for him long term
I am thinking the offseason should pretty eventful for the Cardinals all the way throughout the system. Including trades, position moves, role changes, FA signings etc.
We are at a point where we actually do have too much good pitching in the system as it is causing 40man concerns…so we need to move some of it and not just let it all go to Rule 5 and or waivers
I know this is a closer discussion but offseason ideas? (just one scenario, not even what i think is best)
SIGN Davis (or Neshek if we can’t get him)
SIGN backup catcher…Hank Conger? (plenty of good vet backups)
TRADE Piscotty, Wacha, Hudson, Bader/Grichuk/Sierra for Stanton
TRADE Garcia for something
TRADE a current bullpen arm that has no options left (Bowman, Siegrest, Tuivalala, Lyons)…my pick is Tuivalala who has a lot of interest at the deadline…and with other signings trades would be somewhat expendable…Kevin is an option but his value is super diminished whic hi dont think is accurate for his true value…but clearing a lefty may be necessary)
TRADE some minor leaguers for minor leaguers ala Marco deal…we probably win a few and lose a few but moving some so as not to lose younger protection level talent is key…
Carpenter + Gyorko platoon at 3b both being able to be utilized in super utility role and handedness
Reyes to Pen (closer if we have to get Neshek or another)
Weaver to Rotation (CMart,Leake, Waino, Lynn, Weaver)…Flaherty waiting
Alcantara to pen role if we cant sign Davis if not, leave him
Wong, Fowler, Hosmer, Stanton, DeJong, Carp/Gyorko, Yadi, Pham (order is tough)
Conger, JMart, Diaz, Grichuk/Sierra/Bader, Carp/Gyorko
CMart, Lynn, Waino, Leake, Weaver
Davis, Reyes, Bowman, Lyons, Cecil, Siegrest, Brebbia
Lots Of wheeling and dealing here i know…again…im not saying it works well or is going to happen or even that i WANT it to happen…
the rotation still could be seen as weak, BUT it invests in our best commodity which is our young starting pitching depth…Flaherty, Alcantara, Gomber, Helsley, etc. all are big time prospects…and 2019 could feature Reyes in there for Waino and maybe even Flaherty in there for Leake shoudl he decline more…
the big signings and money spent on Stanton could be used as a clear show to the fans that we arent going to settle for close enough…AND it uses the new money…. AND it also is indication that we’d rather invest now before the craziness of the FA period with MAchado and HArper the following year being absolutely nuts….we maybe get more value for our dollar in this lean year….and the impact of Stanton is equivalent and potentially cheaper than any big signing in the following FA offseason… Hosmer and Stanton add to our lineup what is absolutely missed, Davis plugs the back end, and Lynn fortifies the rotation
man i blather on…sorry folks….all the good discussion just had me thinking….so i spat it out
sorry you have to scroll down a to pass it if you dont want to read…
at the end of the day…i say go big for Davis or go for veteran to help…we have lost so many games late that a real fix seems necessary…i do like Reyes as a closer though…August 25, 2017 at 11:27 am #31600bccranParticipant
We seem to have developed our own pretty well with
Worrell, Wainwright, Rosenthal, etc.
There are plenty of power arms in the system to consider.August 25, 2017 at 2:04 pm #31606thejagerParticipantPaid - Annual
That’s a good point. But you could also point to Lee Smith. isringhausen. Smoltz. Exkersley. Percival and others that there are tim s when we need to get a slam the door veteran to provide the certainty for the back end. Which one doesn’t get when you project guys to do well or not in the very back end.
I think we have some guys that definitely Could be that kind of guy but we have less certainty with that. High hopes which at times works out brilliantly but if it fails you have little to fall back on for those high leverage situations.
I’d prefer to do it all from within with Alcantara Hudson and Reyes all looking like they could be great. But as I said even if I want that I’d still go out and get a veteran setup guy who could help teach those youngsters.
Oh is our vet out there and he can’t really speak to the kids up now. Cecil has a few years and saves but he isn’t exactly doing so great plus he’s a lefty. Losing Rosy meant also losing a guy who has been a dominant closer out there to help the youngsters deal with the new pressures forced on them and a cheerleader is different than a guy who can go out and show youAugust 25, 2017 at 2:08 pm #31607gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
Jager, I would love to see us sign Hosmer, Lynn, and Davis but the three of them combined would probably add $55M-$60M to the payroll next year, which would bump it to $200M. That obviously isn’t happening.
As you correctly note, we need another starter, closer, and big bat. I think we can spend big on one of those three but the other two will have to be cheaper FA’s or trade for a younger player with a lower AAV.August 25, 2017 at 2:22 pm #31608Bw52ParticipantPaid - Annual
Jager- you make some good points.
Whatever happens the Cards need to do several things to jumpstart this team for 2018.
1.Solidify the Bullpen-even if some of the kids show excellent stuff and have good finishes to the season don`t be cheap and fail to get a vbeteran of two to have a extra arm to use and choose from.
2.No gambling on the rotation-If Wainwright shows he can`t cut it starting anymore then send to fill a role in the bullpen( long relief,etc;).Give Flaherty and Weaver and Hudson or Gomber real chances in Spring training to show what they can do.
3.Get a big bat either thru Free agency or trade although I prefer FA route unless that trade gets a younger better player than a Matt Carpenter or Jed Gyorko.
4.Make Yadier Molina realize that a 110-120 game Molina is better for the team because he will be fresher and stronger for the long run and the Cards have a solid backup in Carson Kelly who needs playing time.
5.Spend more Teaching time on basic fundamentals and baserunning skills.Cut down the stupid mistakes.August 25, 2017 at 2:48 pm #31610bccranParticipant
It would make it easier if we knew for sure that Piscotty, Grichuk, Bader, or O’Neill weren’t going to be a big bat for sure.August 25, 2017 at 3:42 pm #31611CariocaCardinalParticipantPaid - Monthly
For those of you that favor signing Hosmer, what would be your plan for Carpenter?August 26, 2017 at 12:28 am #31665mspaidParticipantFree
I can tell you for sure that Piscotty, Grichuk and Bader will not be the big bat. O’Neill? Who knows.
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