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Maybe Brad will go too. I can’t take him very much. I’m all for moving Mark Sweeney from the studio to the ballpark. He made in MLB debut with the Cardinals (I was at the game) and played for many teams and did announcing for San Diego I know. I liked him in the pre-game and post game stuff on the rare occasion I watched it. Or maybe I was just comparing him to Brad and Al who I don’t like to listen to. I don’t know what Tom Pagnozzi says because, I don’t watch very often and hes not on there a lot, but when he was I just stared at how HUGE his hands are and never heard a word he said.
Yes but that was back in the day when a starting pitcher didn’t receive a ticker tape parade for going 5 innings.
That’s kinda my point with this. If Gray, Fedde, Pallante start every weekend series. They know they are starting every Friday, Saturday, Sunday and making 28 starts each, 1 day a week. Get back to extending the SP because they are only starting their 1 day a week and making 28 starts. Plus on the marketing side of selling tickets they can say you are guaranteed to get a Gray start on Friday night. Which more is why I was thinking about the Dodgers doing this. If they were to guarantee a Snell start Friday, Yamamoto on Saturday, and Ohtani on Sunday every week how they could market that and ticket sales.
I read some of this thread over the last 10 days and for the last few years have wondered if having a “Japanese style” rotation would work. In Japan they have SP set to a day of the week start. The Dodgers with their SP depth (and Japanese SP) I could see do this easily. Teams are going to play basically every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. If they set Snell as Friday SP, Yamamoto as Saturday SP, and Ohtani as Sunday SP, then worked the M-Th with Sazaki, Glasnow, and Gonslin they could make it work almost all the way through May before they’d need a “bullpen day” or something. So if the Cardinals wanted to try something, could they make it work? Obviously this would require a 7 man bullpen, but teams often had 7 man bullpen before the roster size was expanded to 26 a few years back. So if they said Fiday- Gray, Saturday- Fedde, Sunday- Pallante, and worked the M-Th with Matz, McGreevy, and Mikolas with each SP making 1 start a week. Does this limit innings? Limit injuries? Allow SP to go deeper into games? Sunday is most likely a day game, is there a SP who pitches better in day games? Pitcher bad in day games, have them as the Friday SP which is going to almost always be a night game?
Th 3/27- Gray
Fr 3/28- OFF
Sa 3/29- Fedde
Su 3/30- Pallante
Mo 3/31- Matz
Tu 4/01- McGreevy
We 4/02- Mikolas
Th 4/03- OFF
Fi 4/04- Gray
Sa 4/05- Fedde
Su 4/06- Pallante
Mo 4/07- Matz
Tu 4/08- McGreevy
We 4/09- Mikolas
Th 4/10- OFF
Fr 4/11- Gray
Sa 4/12- Fedde
Su 4/13- Pallante
Mo 4/14- Matz
Tu 4/15- McGreevy
We 4/16- Mikolas
Th 4/17- ????
Fr 4/18- Gray
Sa 4/19- Fedde
Su 4/20- Pallante
Mo 4/21- Matz
Tu 4/22- McGreevy
We 4/23- Mikolas
Th 4/24- OFF
Fr 4/25- Gray
Sa 4/26- Fedde
Su 4/27- Pallante
Mo 4/28- Matz
Tu 4/29- McGreevy
We 4/30- Mikolas
Th 5/01- ????
Fr 5/02- Gray
Sa 5/03- Fedde
Su 5/04- Pallante
Mo 5/05- Matz
Tu 5/06- McGreevy
We 5/07- Mikolas
Th 5/08- OFF
Fr 5/09- Gray
Sa 5/10- Fedde
Su 5/11- Pallante
Mo 5/12- Matz
Tu 5/13- McGreevy
We 5/14- Mikolas
Th 5/15- OFF
Fr 5/16- Gray
Sa 5/17- Fedde
Su 5/18- Pallante
Mo 5/19- Matz
Tu 5/20- McGreevy
We 5/21- Mikolas
Th 5/22- OFF
Fr 5/23- Gray
Sa 5/24- Fedde
Su 5/25- Pallante
Mo 5/26- Matz
Tu 5/27- McGreevy
We 5/28- Mikolas
Th 5/29- OFF
Fr 5/30- Gray
Sa 5/31- Fedde
Su 6/01- Pallante
Mo 6/02- OFF
Tu 6/03- Matz
We 6/04- McGreevy
Th 6/05- Mikolas
Fr 6/06- Gray
Sa 6/07- Fedde
Su 6/08- Pallante
Mo 6/09- Matz
Tu 6/10- McGreevy
We 6/11- Mikolas
Th 6/12- ????
Fr 6/13- Gray
Sa 6/14- Fedde
Su 6/15- Pallante
Mo 6/16- OFF
Tu 6/17- Matz
We 6/18- McGreevy
Th 6/19- Mikolas
Fr 6/20- Gray
Sa 6/21- Fedde
Su 6/22- Pallante
Mo 6/23- Matz
Tu 6/24- McGreevy
We 6/25- Mikolas
Th 6/26- ????
Fr 6/27- Gray
Sa 6/28- Fedde
Su 6/29- Pallante
Mo 6/30- Matz
Tu 7/01- McGreevy
We 7/02- Mikolas
Th 7/03- OFF
Fr 7/04- Gray
Sa 7/05- Fedde
Su 7/06- Pallante
Mo 7/07- OFF
Tu 7/08- Matz
We 7/09- McGreevy
Th 7/10- Mikolas
Fr 7/11- Gray
Sa 7/12- Fedde
Su 7/13- PallanteI know that’s a lot, but it’s to the All-Star break and if they tried it (and everyone was healthy) they would only need 4 starts made outside of those 6. They could go with a pen game or demote a guy to bring up a SP for the day and then demote him to bring up a different RP. It would be unorthodox for sure, but could it work?
Did Gorman hit lefties better than Burly in the minors? From what i’ve seen at mlb, he does, but it’s such a sss. Gorman keeps his front side in better/longer vs lhp’s, imo, so it wouldn’t surprise me.
I’m not sure about minors. But I know over the course of 1,179 PA (957 vs RHP, 222 vs LHP) Gorman has a .743 OPS vs RHP and .707 vs LHP. 34% K vs both, slight percent points lower vs LHP, but basically the same. And both need to be MUCH lower.
Burleson has 995 PA (821 vs RH, 174 vs LH). .747 OPS vs RHP and .533 vs LHP. 13% K vs 14%, but for 2024 it was a .805 vs .514 OPS platoon split and 13% K vs both. Burleson is Lindor, Christian Walker, Corbin Carrol, Carlos Correa good when facing RHP, but he’s Austin Hedges and not even Martin Maldonado when facing LHP. They absolutely have to platoon him. Gorman can probably hold his own, Nootbaar and Donovan have track record to show they absolutely can play against LHP, especially Nootbaar.Noot in CF: Bellinger keeps reminding me of the value “CF capable” adds to a players overall value.
I would keep him away from CF for now in hopes it would improve the chances of getting 150 healthy games from him.
Thanks.
I think Noot is capable in CF, but not going to wow anybody. They say Gorman is going to play. Arenado is still at 3B. Gorman is going to have to play 2B. Donovan has to be in the lineup so he gets forced back into LF. Nootbaar has to be in the lineup. They are going to keep developing Walker in RF. So Nootbaar is going to have to play CF. If its a late game situation and upping the defense then Siani can go into CF and adjust wherever else. But putting Nootbaar in CF gives them by far their best, and deepest, lineup. I just really hope they use Donovan as the leadoff hitter. He’s their best option, not that Winn was bad, but Donovan leading off allows Winn to hit second and I like 1-3 of Donovan, Winn, Nootbaar the most. Then putting Contreras, Burleson, Arenado behind it to drive them in. Also sandwiching Burleson between to right hand hitters should help with late in LH pitching changes. I’m sure Oli won’t agree at all and we’ll see Winn, Burleson, Arenado, Donovan, Contreras, Nootbaar, Herrera, Walker, Gorman/Siani. With Donovan in LF with Gorman and at 2B with Siani. And I really don’t like that line-up. If they are going to move one of those 3 out of the top 3 it should be Winn, and that will probably be the last one Oli moves out of the top of the order. Not that I don’t really like Winn, which is why I say still hit him 2nd, but Donovan and Nootbaar need to be hitting early in the line-up and getting as many plate appearances as possible and using their OBP skill. The utility spot probably looks like one of the minor league signings in Barrero or Vilade, but I supposed Fermin or Prieto could make a push for it. But I think Barrero and Vilade more “utility” will give them an advantage over strictly IF of Fermin or Prieto. Prieto being a left handed hitter hurts his chances too. I guess Baker has a chance at the bench also and DH against LHP instead of Gorman. But, I think having someone with more versatility defensively would be more valuable.
I hope Bill looks at how much the Dodgers are spending this year and realize this Cards team has absolutely zero chance of beating the Dodgers in the playoffs. Commit to a “reset” and trade off Helsey and Fedde for some guys that can hopefully contribute in 26 and beyond. I don’t care about salary dumps, just focus on acquiring talent.
Recent comments I’ve seen suggest Bill wants a reset, but they can’t move their bloated contracts of aging players. They set priority 1 as trading Arenado and haven’t moved past it. I think they easily could have found good deals for Helsley and Fedde. And while it doesn’t free up the same money or open a spot for Gorman to get to 3B and Donovan to 2B, it clears up some and also would add quite a bit to the system. Their payroll is going to be around $150 million with the way it stands now. I saw a comment from the Cubs owner saying something along the lines of I’ve heard fans say to open up the wallet and spend the money like the Dodgers are, but that money isn’t there and they are just trying to break even from year to year. Basically saying the same thing the DeWitt’s have said previously while everyone keeps saying spend, spend, spend. The Dodgers may be really good the next 2-5 years, but we’ll see what happens after. Players will age and they have a LOT of differed money that could really put them in a bind in the future. Guess we’ll see.
Seems more and more likely that absolutely nada is going to happen this off-season with this team other than all the FA have gone. With that said, best case scenario we’ll see something along the lines of,
vs. RHP
1. Donovan – LF (L)
2. Winn – SS (R)
3. Nootbaar – CF (L)
4. Contreras – 1B (R)
5. Burleson – DH (L)
6. Arenado – 3B (R)
7. Walker – RF (R)
8. Gorman – 2B (L)
9. Herrera/Pages – C (R)Saggese – IF(R), ??? – UT, Saini – OF (L), Pages/Herrera – C (R)
Vs. LHP
1. Donovan – LF (L)
2. Winn – SS (R)
3. Nootbaar – CF (L)
4. Contreras – 1B (R)
5. Arenado – 3B (R)
6. Walker – RF (R)
7. Herrera – C (R)
8. Gorman – DH (L)
9. Saggese – 2B (R)???-UT, Burleson- 1B/RF(L), Siani- OF(L), Pages- C(R)
Late game Siani can come into CF, Nootbaar to RF or Siani to CF, Nootbaar to LF, Donovan to 2B.
Gray, Fedde, Matz(L), Mikolas, Pallante
Liberatore(L), Graceffo, King(L), ???, Leahy, Romero(L), Fernandez, Helsley
I say Graceffo in the pen because the AAA rotation already looks heavy and without moving any SP McGreevy seems to be the odd man out yet again. Graceffo seems to be a long shot to get a SP look, so I say use him as a long man in the pen and see what he looks like. The last RP spot there is O’Brien, Roycroft, Loutos, Svanson. I guess they could start McGreevy and move Pallante back to the pen, but the way he pitched out of the rotation last season it seems very unlikely. I think McGreevy will be in AAA and awaiting the first injury to the rotation to get his shot again.
Not really. Lux can play SS, Arenado cannot.
Arenado might play SS as well as Lux. If Lux could play SS they wouldn’t be moving Betts there next season. They still have Rojas. Edman is a better SS than Lux. Lux is, at best, 4th in line to play SS. Their #3 prospect is a SS who was at AAA last season and good enough he’ll stick at SS. Lux doesn’t grade out well in the metrics and his double play turning ability is sub par. I could see them trying to move Lux to LF or pushed out of LA quickly. They could easily use Muncy at 2B and late game situations Rojas comes in or Edman shifts from CF to 2B and Outman or whoever plays CF. I’m not saying this is the route they go, Muncy hasn’t played 2B since 2022, but his metrics at 2B are similar to Lux, so it’s not out of the question at all.
With all that though, while I would like to see something like Arenado and Romero to LA and the Cardinals getting Taylor, Brasier, 2 pitching prospects. I think he’s much more likely SD or NYY bound if they can ever get it done. The problem is going to be the money and the Cardinals are going to have to eat part of it and why I liked the LAD scenario more of taking on the $17 million of the 2 players to not eat any of Arenado.
All of this is just a shame though, because they had a goal in mind of resetting and 2026 Bloom taking over with a much cleaner slate and seemed to be in a pretty good postion to make it happen.But now its apprearing more and more like nothing is going to happen and they hope Helsley and Fedde can stay healthy enough to trade for something at the deadline as all the fan’s still can’t realize why the team plays .500 ball with a so-so minor league system and stuck behind all these teams for more years to come. People say they want to see them win, but want to hold on to bloated contracts holding them back. If you want to see them win the “resetting” for 2 years and see where they are in 2027 seems like a much better option to me than the route they appear headed in yet again.
I think it could also be the fact of expansion. They have expressed the desire to add 2 more teams. That 46 AAA players essentially that are now MLB. 46 AA players that are now AAA players. At what point does the product get too watered down? And then there is the whole financially aspect of operating all these teams, which I’m sure is more of a driving force.
That should give a framework of what the Cardinals will have to pay down to move Arenado.
I’d trade Arenado for whatever I can get without paying a dime of his salary. Take on only expiring after 2025 contracts to off set anything. Even if it’s not much at all, just get out from the contract and move on with the kids and play ball. Arenado has never seemed to fit or enjoy being in STL to me. Get rid of the money. Move Helsley and Fedde too. Probably stuck with Gray since it sounds like he won’t waive the NTC, but I’d sure try to entice him with Atlanta who need a SP.
I just don’t understand the Arenado to the Dodgers narrative….
1)He’s from SoCal and would approve a trade there.
2)Dodgers can afford him.
3) Dodgers have Taylor who the Cardinals could take to off set money that could play a RH UT role and expire after 2025
4) Arenado would be a big upgrade defensively at 3B over Muncy.
5) Muncy can play 2B. Arenado, Betts, Muncy, Freeman in the IF. ? Lf, Edman, Pages/Conforto in the OF and the ability to trade Lux or use him as a UT IF. OR Muncy can play more of a UT role between the 1B, 2B, 3B and be available if injuries, which he hasn’t been the best at avoiding either.It seems to fit. That’s why. But Dodgers have said they aren’t going to trade for him though. But who knows.
Say Arenado goes, who is playing 3rd base
Gorman.
1. Donovan 2B (L) UT
2. Winn SS (R)
3. Nootbaar LF (L)
4. Contreras 1B (R)
5. Burleson DH (L) 1B/RF
6. Walker RF (R)
7. Gorman 3B (L)
8. Herrera/Pages C (R)
9. Siani/Scott CF (L)Saggese IF (R), ???, Scott/Siani, Pages/Herrera
Other bench spot could be Barrero or Vilade, or someone not traded for or signed yet.
Barrero and Vilade can both play multiple positions and hit RH and can give Burleson, Gorman, Scott/Siani time off vs LHP. Personally vs LHP I’d go
1. Donovan LF
2. Winn SS
3. Nootbaar RF
4. Contreras 1B
5. Walker DH
6. Herrera C
7. Saggese 2B
As for CF and 3B it just a matter of who else is on the bench. Barrero has a bigger hill to climb to get there, but has mostly played CF and SS and can play 2B, LF, RF, 3B. Vilade was a SS in college, but pro ball has mostly been LF and RF, can play some CF, and also has played 3B, 2B, and 1B. But also could get Gorman, Burleson, and the LH CF crew in there. But all 4 of them have definitely had their issues with LHP, especially Burleson.$36.4 AAV for ages 32-36.
Gray is signed still for ages 35-36 at $32.5 AAV or if the option is picked up ages 35-37 at $30 AAV. If, and big if at this point, Gray was willing to waive the NTC the money may not be as big of an issue as I thought it could possibly be.
Mud, we don’t really know if the Cardinals are about to lose money or not. I kind of doubt if they are but we don’t get to see their books so who knows? If it were up to me I wouldn’t attach Helsley to Arenado but if that is the only way to get a deal done then they may have to.
Agreed, I think Arenado can be moved without attaching him and not watering down Helsley. I also don’t like any of these “ideas” that were listed by the news sites. As far as them losing money. I doubt it and I’m more optimistic about the idea of this young line-up and taking the pressure off Gorman and Walker and just letting them play than I’ve been about the line up the last few years. We’ll see about the pitching though and what all they actually do.
3yr $64 million probably isn’t too far off what he’d get in free agency
Thinking more about this. Jeimer Candelario got 3 years $45 million last off season. 4th year option that could make it 4 year $60 million. So Arenado getting 3 years and $60 million in free agency isn’t too far off I’d think.
1. How much money do you think the Cardinals should eat to trade Arenado? Cots shows him making:
– $32 million in 2025, with $5 million paid by Colorado
– $27 million in 2026, with $5 million paid by Colorado
– $15 million in 20272. How much do you think the Cardinals will actually pay down to trade Arenado?
3. Where do you see him landing?
4. What kind of prospect return are you expecting?
5. What should the Cardinals do with the savings (keep it, invest in players for 2025, invest in minor leagues, invest in stadium, etc)? I should probably add that you should give a rationale and budget for your choice.
1. Nothing. I’d eat an expiring 2025 contract, but that’s it. I’d rather them take on someone like Chris Taylor, Mitch Garver than just pay money out to someone else.
2. Matters the return they want. 3yr $64 million probably isn’t too far off what he’d get in free agency. But that is the Cardinals trading him for nothing basically. The more they pay the more prospects will be added in.
3. Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, Mariners. But I think he’s much more likely to waive the NTC for Dodgers and Yankees. Bregman free agency will play into it.
4. They are cutting payroll. The money will be saved or for minor league development.
I still say to the Dodgers for Taylor, Braiser, LHP Maddux Bruns(AA), and
RHP Patrick Copen (A+-AA). 2 hard throwers who have really good stuff. Maybe not the control to stick as SP but floor looks like at least back end RP. Taylor works as a RH UT for them Braiser replaces Kittredge as set-up. They are $17 million expiring in after 2025. If Bregman signs elsewhere, could turn into a 3 team trade with Houston getting Max Muncy.The thing that scares me is if these guys are going to waive the NTC you could see people like Donovan traded to get prospects, or selling low on Gorman. Then they are trading youth they want to see if is able to be built around just to try to get the minor league system built back up.
I think if Gray and Arenado don’t waive their NTC its going to be a bad 6-8 years for the organization. They need to get out from the contracts and start reloading a very think minor league system. Fedde and Helsley should be able to bring some nice prospects. I can live with Contreras at 1B/DH because it was appearing to be a hole anyway with Burleson filling the other. I would have rather went full rebuild and trade Contreras too, but him to waiving isn’t the end of the world.
I think Contreras is athletic enough to play 1B, but I’ve never seen him field a ground ball. Most of 1B is hands, which I would think even as a so-so catcher he has enough hands to play 1B, and footwork. The footwork will just come with reps. Goldschmidt and Pujols were both very good at 1B in both those aspects. Saving many runs with their hands and feet. Hosmer got a lot of hate via metrics at 1B, but when you watched his hands and feet at 1B he was very good. One of the reason’s I think defensive metrics for infielders is skewed. Contreras has shown he will work. I hope he puts a lot of time into it this winter and gets it figured out.
there is no way they are putting $75 million into player development next year (total payroll last year was $175 Million). That to me would reek of a total cash grab by ownership.
I think the investment is going to be very significant. The “pitching labs” some of these teams have developed are huge investments with facilities and staff. I expect they can take on some expiring contracts for 2025 and then those are gone along with Mo, other coaching staff, front office staff, probably some of these guys that have be re-assigned (like Joe McEwing and Wilie McGee) and they get out from under a lot of money there too. 2026 Bloom takes over full control and have a reloaded minor league system and a very minimal salary commitment and can get to building to compete. It’s not about a 2025 “cash grab”, its about a 2025 re-set and getting out from under these contracts before they can’t and give some of the young guys a chance to take control of their spot and they are what they are building around. Like Herrera or Pages with Crooks coming. SP with Liberatore, McGreevy, Pallante, Graceffo and so on. Can Gorman prove hes a major league player? and so on. Ownership is saying they have no money and want to be make the organization more cost efficient. I think the MLB salary around $100 million for 2025 could be very likely and as they get out from the remaining contracts after 2025 the 2026 salaries could be about the same if not a little lower. Then 2027 hopefully the minor league system is better and the guys traded for are major league ready and they are ready to compete again.
Arenado, Mikolas, Gray and Contreras all have NTC’s.
Yes, but with the state of the team and the youth movement then I think they would have no problem getting them to waive them.
Arenado ($27/$22/$15):
-Mets – If they lose Alonso in FA and Vientos moves to 1B then a 3B would be needed.
-Dodgers – as I have mentioned they have Taylor ($17) and Braiser ($4.5) that would make sense even for a rebuilding Cardinals team to take on to off-set $21.5 million of the contract and up the return they can get. He’s from that area, Muncy could move to more of a UT guy for them or traded himself. Get 2 of Bobby Miller, Maddux Bruns, Patrick Copen, Payton Martin.
-Arizona – Probably less of a fit, but if Suarez option is declined then possible.
-Seattle – They are searching for offense and 3B has been a hole.
-Houston – Probably not a fit as they have said they are going to have to “get creative with payroll”, but Bregman could leave via free agency opening 3B, maybe a 3 team trade and Houston gets Muncy?
-Yankees – 3B has been a hole, Torres is a FA, Chisolm could move to 2B or even CF or LF. If they re-sign Soto they many not want to take on Arenado contract too, but they are linked to being very interested in Bregman.Contreras ($18/$18/$18.5/$17.5 option w/ $5 buyout)
– Seattle – again they are searching for offense. May be a DH or 1B there that is available to catch too.
– Houston – Maybe? They have Y. Diaz, but hes also played some 1B, Contreras could play 1B there too. Again money is going to be an issue with them but could see a fit.
– Cleveland – Money again will be the issue, but a need for C is there.
– Detroit – looking for a RH bat, would probably catch there but could be 1B or DH too. Torkelson could be an intriguing return if they wanted to give up on him. I also like Jaden Hamm with them, but I don’t know that they give up their #7 prospect without the Cardinals covering a significant amount of the contract.
– Rays – The money probably doesn’t make any sense here, but there is a need for catcher. If they were able to off load B. Lowe and Y. Diaz in other trades it might work. I think brother William Contreras probably makes more sense to them if Milwaukee goes that route.
– Yankees – Basically what I said about Arenado, Yankees off season could go a lot of different ways and Contreras could be a Catcher or 1B option. If they aren’t able to bring Soto back they are going to be looking for many ways to lengthen a line-up that was mostly just Soto and Judge anyway.Gray ($25/$35/$30 option with $5 buyout)
This one is very complicated with the back loaded contract and I think will depend a LOT on how the FA market is set for SP and who goes where.
– Atlanta – I think is absolutely the most logical fit to me, but its going to depend a lot on money and what Fried does and Morton is also a FA.
– Mets- Obvious need for SP, multiple SP free agents. Don’t know if he’d want to go back to New York.
– Cubs – Do they trade in division? But there is a need for SP.
– Cincinnati – see Cubs
– Padres – Maybe, they have some SP but Musgrove is out for 2025 and Cease is a FA after 2025. How much money do they have left?
– Diamondbacks – Will probably be in on FA SP, if they miss could be an option but the money could be a hang up.
– Texas – Could use a SP but money will be an issue.
– Houston – See Texas
– Detroit – I don’t know that he waives to go there, but they could use more SP.
– Boston – Need more SP, would he waive to go back to the north east?
– Baltimore – Need for SP, they will be trying to bring Burnes back, if he goes elsewhere could definitely be in.
– Yankees – Need for SP, hes been with the Yankees before and struggled would he want to go back?Mikolas ($18.5)
Matz ($12.5)
I think their best bet is to hold onto them for now. They can be a mentor to the young guys and veteran leadership to try to be an “overachieving team playing with house money”. If it doesn’t work out that way then at the deadline there is always a need for SP and look to move them then. If Matz can prove healthy then should be pretty easy to move being LH, can relieve too, reasonable salary. Mikolas will have to agree to any trade and getting that to happen may be easier at the deadline. If they do try to move them now then basically any team listed for Gray can make sense with Atlanta, Mets being most likely fits and with them I’d add Philadelphia, San Francisco, Minnesota, Kansas City, Cleveland all as reasonable fits too.Fedde ($7.5)
Not trading him when trying to load the system would be dumb. I know he wasn’t what a lot of people expected him to be when they traded for him, but he was still good. With his reasonable salary any team looking to contend is a very reasonable option. I’ve said before I think Kansas City as a Wacha replacement is a very natural fit and I’d go after Blake Wolters, Tyler Gentry, and another low level pitcher, maybe Hunter Owen. Devin Mann has always intrigued me too. He’s 28 never made the big leagues and would have to be added to the 40 man, but could provide them with more RH utility depth.Helsley (final arbitration year, projected at $6.9)
Again not trading him would not be in their best interest. Basically an team looking to content will have interest. I think Texas and Yankees are natural fits. Mitch Bratt, Izack Tiger, and Brock Porter are all intriguing lower level arms and Cardinals could get more than just those 3 likely. Yankees may not have the prospects the Cardinals are looking for.Donovan (arb. projected at $3.6)
I wouldn’t, but I guess it’s a possibility. His trade value is high and I’d have to get a haul to consider it.I fully expect to see Gray, Fedde, Helsley, Arenado traded. I know its a lot to do over the winter, but I think it will happen. I think Gray will take some time with the free agent market to start setting what the price of SP is going to be and who will to take the contract of Gray. Contreras is also very likely, but I also don’t know if they can make all that happen in 1 off season and find someone financially who will take on his contract. I know Donovan has been mentioned a lot. I see the logic behind it when trying to rebuild a farm system, but he’s still young enough, controllable, and could be valuable to the team in 2027 when looking to be competitive again, but also if all works the way they want it then Wetherholt could be the 2B by then and maybe Donovan’s value could be more to someone else now. I just know I’d have to have an absolute HAUL for me to move him and would well behind my priority list of moving the others. With all that said I expect the rotation to probably be Mikolas, Matz, Pallante, McGreevy, Liberatore to start the season. With the hope Mikolas and Matz build up enough value they can be traded at the deadline, and the rotation the 2nd half of the season could be VERY different based on Liberatore performance (moved back to the pen?), development of the AAA guys, whos traded for. Trading Mikolas or Matz now makes no sense to me. Their value, if they are able to stay healthy and pitch OK, will be drastically higher, but still not much, at the deadline to needy teams and their expiring contracts.
I totally agree KCB. If they are able to move Arenado I would like to see Gorman at 3B, Donovan at 2B, and Saggese as the super sub.
Donovan would still be my “super sub”, but also my primary 2B. Gorman at 3B, Donovan at 2B most days. Need a sub somewhere else Donovan moves there and Saggese plays 2B. vs LHP Donovan might be the 3B and Saggese at 2B most of the time anyway. All saying Arenodo is moved of course. But Saggese has the ability to play some SS or 3B if needed. What Ive seen of him his range is above average, his arm is good but not anything special, but his hands are probably average at best, especially to play SS or 3B regularly, meaning 2B should be his primary position.
Tigers To Pursue Right-Handed Bat, Additional Pitching Help In Offseason
From MLB trade rumors. I already thought Contreras fit there. If they are indeed searching for a RH bat maybe he does fit there. They have some hard throwing low leving pitching that’s intriguing too. And I already mentioned Torkleson as a 1B/DH as a former top prospect guy I’d take a chance on if they wanted to give up on him.
If trading all these people is too much for Mo. I can probably get FMLA or something for a few months to help out, i won’t require much compensation to help with the tight budget.🤣
It’s not that they aren’t trying to win, players and coaches are trying to win all the time, or that they are purposely “tanking”. They have bloated contracts, ownership saying they have no money, and aren’t winning with an aging roster. They are VERY cost ineffective. It’s still a business and if you were running a business and spending a lot of money and not getting results something has to change. It’s about making them cost effective and building a minor league system back to being relied upon.
I would be very reluctant to send money with any of the guys traded. Gray would demand close to the contract he’s got anyway on the market, they should be able to find takers. Especially as the winter goes on and teams missing on signing Burnes or Flaherty and still trying to land a SP. The return isn’t going to be astronomical because of the contract. But why I target A-AA players. The closer they are to being “major league ready” the more value. Get some lower level tools guys and hope it works out for the best. But the main goal is reloading the system and getting the payroll down. With Arenado and Contreras they are likely going to have to take on a bad contract or 2 from the other team to off set some money. But if they are expiring after 2025 then I have no problem with it. They clear out those contracts along with Matz and Mikolas and Mo and probably more front office and coaching contracts and 2026 is a fresh start for Bloom with a very minimal salary commitment a stronger minor league system and keep building so that hopefully in 2027 they know who they are for sure and have significant pieces in place and they are looking to compete again. They have ZERO playoff wins with Arenado and Goldschmidt. What’s the difference between 83 wins and 65 wins? Both miss the playoffs and no reson to pay these bloated contracts. It’s past time for a re-set and they are actually in a pretty good place it could be a quick one. Not 5-6 years like the Astros and Cubs did. The Cubs were better than them this year and have a much stronger upper minor league system right now. The Brewers won the division, will lose Adames may have to trade Williams and maybe William Contreras to keep their money down, but again still have young controllable core and a stronger upper minor league system than the Cardinals right now. It’s not ideal as a fan, I get it, but if they want to be legit yearly contenders again they can’t keep being buried under big contracts and a thin minor league system. Get rid of the contracts while you can, get low level guys to develop and build the system up so those guys are hopefully ready when you’re ready to compete in 2027 and be deep then.
Mikolas isn’t getting traded before the season. He has no trade value right now. Their only hope to trade him is he pitches well before the deadline, they aren’t in contention, he agrees to be traded.