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The very fact that it could should scare the crap out of any cardinal fan.
Kelly should NOT be dealt. End of discussion. Even if we have to do a full rebuild.
Molina will get hurt at some point in here given his load. Most likely within a year. Just the way of things.
Like I said I can understand people saying that.
If mejia is that much better than kelly then there is no better prospect in baseball. Catchers like that do not come around often. There is a reason yadi has had his job for over a decade — and I said the similar things when he came up.
Great catchers are nearly impossible to find. We are exceedingly lucky to have kelly. He might end up better than yadi and given that yadi is probably our best catcher we have ever had that is saying something.
fair…
Looked it up… Similar defensively to kelly from the little I read.
Fyi… I’d put mejia slightly behind due to development… And yes he is way too low as well. His ops is like 175 points higher than league average for his position. At 21 in aa. That is stupidly good.
Realistically the two are a coinflip. I can see arguments either way. He could get hurt and plummet.
Name another 22 year old prospect in aaa with an ops 100 points above league average for his position with plus defense.
He is a top ten prospect. Catchers are perpetually underranked. His stats in aaa this year would have given him about 4 WAR if he repeated them in the bigs.. and He is still developing and has power potential (which was why he was drafted).
Think one step short of mike piazza with the bat and a plus glove. Considering how bad piazzas glove was… And he ended up in the hall of fame.
When you include development there is zero reason for him to be outside the top 20. Realistically he is a top ten guy given extreme rarity at his position.
Lol brian
Like I said above — even if he isnt a part of the problem (don’t buy it) he has definitely not been part of the solution — which is unacceptable.
Given its history of underestimating us and a very basic examination of relative WAR potential of players like kelly, bader etc….
The general consensus can kiss my ass lol
Bobreed showed historically how badly we have been underestimated last winter and when a guy like gomber (who dominated the afl and is having a solid year in aa at an age appropriate level) might not even crack our top 20?
And dont get me started on how underrated kelly is in general. And I would add that knizner is going to have the same issue.
/shrugs .. I know you’re kinda pushing my buttons a bit because I tend to talk and I’ve seen you have similar opinions… and that’s fine… I can take it lol
Not trying to gloss it over really… Kelly had enough time at that age to learn one of the toughest defensive positions. I just tend to give kids leeway on certain fronts at that age.
Alex Gordon didnt learn outfield until he was in the bigs. He handled it.
I agree that yepez probably ends up at first and probably has to hit.
But hypothetical… A 22 year old first baseman with bad defense puts up an .850 ops at aaa… Decent prospect? Yeah… top 100? Probably not. But viable and definitely a prospect. Real value.
That’s if he continues hitting better than kelly. Kelly moved to being a top prospect due to position change. Yepez probably wont.
All youre basically saying is our organizational depth is ridiculous — because you are right in pointing out that other players should be ranked higher at this point.
More players like yepez would hardly be a bad thing. Our organizational top 30 this winter will be absurd even with Kelly’s eventual graduation.
An international million dollar bonus baby is definitely better than a 2nd rounder.
His ops at the same age is higher than carson kelly. Peoria is a tomb to hit in… He is only like 8 months or so older than dylan carlson with similar hitting stats (I like carlson more… But the talent is there). His walk rates have improved since the trade which is encouraging.
Im not saying he is perfect but he is definitely at worst 2nd round talent… And im willing to disagree on whether he is higher or not because it is semi irrelevant (time will tell more than our argument).
What you illustrated is how good our organizational depth is — not how good yepez isnt.
There comes a point where you take what you can get… Or you get nothing.
Juan yepez is better than a 2nd rounder.
The only other reason that I can see would be that they didnt get what they wanted in trade and now are stuck with a bloated roster.
Which makes the trade deadline even more mystifying.
You know and I know there should be one or two players up right now that arent. Possibly three.
Nine relievers crosses the border into stupid. Pick almost any position and we could bring up someone to contribute.
There is no rational reason for this insanity. None.
I think bringing up kelly was the org putting its line in the sand because this is ridiculous. If our offense is going to suck anyway bring up the younger guys.
Yeah there has to be some movement there this winter in my opinion.
Lyons has one year of arb (I believe) left so it isnt a ‘trade immediately situation.
Dont know if ‘trade one of the two’ is complicated. The melodrama that seems to be involved is annoying.
My guy says fowler was having similar issues with bader fyi…
Also the more I think about it someone is enabling this attitude in the organization. My instincts say it has been matheny. And when the organization told him to change yadi then had issues publicly.
Just seems to be how it has played out… To me anyway
No argument on pecking order… the pitching situation in the minors is exciting. Having better alternatives doesnt make you bad.
I mostly just wanted to point out he seems to be doing well. If I had to guess… Bullpen long term but he seems to have a knack for getting outs so who knows.
Fair… But I was more referring to the fact that kelly would more than likely play decently to well.
…Which would then force the org to play or trade him. And molina is showing a very diva-ish personality right now.
I have a feeling the org is going to have a ‘come to jesus’ moment with some of the veterans in the off-season.
I can just see yadi getting hurt in august or september and the chaos that would happen.
As sensitive as some of our position players are turning out to be…
Wouldnt be shocked if a lot of it is certain players whining about losing playing time or generally feeling threatened and that’s why some of the bench bats arent up.
To be fair it could also be the fact that memphis is winning and they want to allow them to finish it out… But given the relative importance… Even the ability to play everyday makes no sense.
You take out gomber’s first start of the year (yes they count for good reason but still…) and his numbers look quite good. Another ho hum boring starter.
Last ten starts his era is 3.00
… I’ve been more quiet about him than I was last winter… But still like him. He is boring and solid and he will make the bigs in some capacity.
Pretty obvious he is ready for aaa … If a spot ever opens.
I dont want them to go spend. I am also fully cognizant that they wont spend like that.
Which is a good thing.
That only leaves one path left — Which was my not very subtle point.
realistically (as stated) they won’t.
If they trade molina fans will be furious. If they trade kelly fans will be furious (you don’t trade the young gun… You just don’t).
They do so much to avoid losing revenue that they’ve started to lose revenue due to stagnation.
The eventual end of the conservative approach theyve taken is YEARS of stagnation and lower revenue. Compounded with yadis contract… Well we are going to suck… When everything screams we should be improving.
What they’ve done for the last year or so is asinine. If you want to rebuild them get off your ass and do it. If you want to compete with an aging roster you have to spend real money not half ass it with players like fowler.
Pick one. This half ass stuff does nobody any good.
Tyler O’Neill will help both in a year or less.
I agree obp is where we need help. Wongs lack of power doesnt bother me. Piscotty does. Carpenter does due to position. Fowler probably won’t do this again. Pham would be fine if he played center.
Dejong will likely pull a grichuk for a year or so at some point… So I cant annoint him a cleanup hitter. Might be a fairly good 6 or maybe even 5 hole guy though where obp isnt as important.
Conclusion? We probably need a bit more but obp is a bigger issue.
