Weaver down, Tui up

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This topic contains 35 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by bicyclemike bicyclemike 1 year, 11 months ago.

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  • #29747
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    CariocaCardinal
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    Kelly wont graduate. Will be about 5 days short of graduating via service time and unless Yadi gets hurt, wont get the ab’s. Weaver graduated during his last game though.

    #29756
    Brian Walton
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    Not pushing your buttons. Just having a good discussion.

    I have always said that I do not know the other systems well enough to objectively place the Cardinals. Seeing guys once or twice (or in most cases, never) so primarily doing rankings from stat sheets and mining what others say is not my thing. I appreciate how hard it would be, though.

    I generally try to not over-rate the guys in the organization I follow. Generally, the Cards don’t seem to rank as well nationally because they often lack top-tier talent. Unfortunately, the MLB club is suffering from that very problem right now. If teams had to play a 50-man roster, the Cards might always be competitive.

    While I appreciate the effort BobReed put into his prospect ranking work last off-season, when all was said and done, it was the work of a Cardinals fan and I felt it reflected that bias. I came to that conclusion by using the scouting data from the source he referenced, John Sickels.

    Regarding Kelly, he is ranked #36 nationally by MLB and #51 by BA. What is wrong with that?

    #29758
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    Brianpnoonan
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    Name another 22 year old prospect in aaa with an ops 100 points above league average for his position with plus defense.

    He is a top ten prospect. Catchers are perpetually underranked. His stats in aaa this year would have given him about 4 WAR if he repeated them in the bigs.. and He is still developing and has power potential (which was why he was drafted).

    Think one step short of mike piazza with the bat and a plus glove. Considering how bad piazzas glove was… And he ended up in the hall of fame.

    When you include development there is zero reason for him to be outside the top 20. Realistically he is a top ten guy given extreme rarity at his position.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by Avatar Brianpnoonan.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by Avatar Brianpnoonan.
    #29762
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    Since you asked, I know nothing about Francisco Mejia’s defense, but at age 21, he has a .900 OPS at Double-A. Over a year older, Kelly had a .834 mark at AAA. His OPS last year at Springfield at the same level and age as Mejia is at now was .740.

    So those who call Kelly the top catching prospect in the minors disagree with MLB and BA, who favor Cleveland’s Mejia. I can understand why the relative rankings of the two are as they are.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by Brian Walton Brian Walton.
    #29765
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    Brianpnoonan
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    fair…

    Looked it up… Similar defensively to kelly from the little I read.

    Fyi… I’d put mejia slightly behind due to development… And yes he is way too low as well. His ops is like 175 points higher than league average for his position. At 21 in aa. That is stupidly good.

    Realistically the two are a coinflip. I can see arguments either way. He could get hurt and plummet.

    #29766
    Brian Walton
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    BA: Mejia #18, Kelly 51
    MLB: Mejia #16, Kelly 36

    They are both elite prospects, but not all that close in ranking, except on a Cardinals board. 😉

    #29768
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    Brianpnoonan
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    Like I said I can understand people saying that.

    If mejia is that much better than kelly then there is no better prospect in baseball. Catchers like that do not come around often. There is a reason yadi has had his job for over a decade — and I said the similar things when he came up.

    Great catchers are nearly impossible to find. We are exceedingly lucky to have kelly. He might end up better than yadi and given that yadi is probably our best catcher we have ever had that is saying something.

    #29769
    Brian Walton
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    I don’t know that trading Kelly would become a Steve Carlton-magnitude mistake, but my fear is that to placate Molina, they may double down on bad decisions that will be regretted for a long time. How else can they deal with this situation for three more years? That is an eternity.

    #29774
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    Brianpnoonan
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    The very fact that it could should scare the crap out of any cardinal fan.

    Kelly should NOT be dealt. End of discussion. Even if we have to do a full rebuild.

    Molina will get hurt at some point in here given his load. Most likely within a year. Just the way of things.

    #29806
    Brian Walton
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    Tui survives – at least for another day. With Wainwright’s activation, Kevin Siegrist was placed on the DL with left arm used-up-itis, or if you prefer, forearm tendinitis.

    #29917
    bicyclemike
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    I love the potential Kelly shows, and obviously he should be groomed as the catcher starting in 2019. I wish he was playing every day in Memphis now though, then next year start playing a couple of days a week sort of like Molina did in 2004.

    Then in ’19 you probably play Molina and Kelly each about half the time, depending on injuries and results.

    As for Tui, he is another guy I think Matheny should use more often. I am surprised Oh is still on the club, as Tui could have filled his spot. Like with Lynn, we must not have gotten anything worthwhile offered for Oh, although you would think a contender would have wanted him. Then again, technically we are still contenders despite the season long slightly-less-than-mediocrity performance.

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