[thejager]

cont’d

so if MM gets credit for wins but NOT players performance he did pretty darned well…if he gets credit for players performances i think he still does pretty well…but it isnt black or white… its obviously gray…he definitely made mistakes…everyone does…he definitely had issues with bullpen management…but it’s hard to say if that should be his fault or not as he was working with a severely underperforming group of guys for a long time this season…. (some of that because we had no movement in the pen from AAA early because of contracts and option limitations)

-Piscotty, Diaz, Carp, Fowler and to some extent Grichuk were expected to be the core of the lineup and provide the offense its excitement….ALL underperformed in their new roles… MM’s fault? maybe…but even if so, then he deserves credit for the new players who replaced them OR with helping turn around those players to get better by the end
-Yadi, Peralta supposed to be vet contact hitters knowing their roles…Yaddi exceeded expectations while PEralta never recovered…..MM gets credit for Yadi? or not? but with Perlata it seems resounding failure of his managing skkills to run him out there when he did…yet MM gets NO credit for benching him and getting Yroko in over there and Gyorko filling the defensive void?
-Wong was an unknown but we had him handcuffed with Gyorko and Garcia if needed…yet he performed well when not injured…so…either MM deserves credit for getting Wong over his bad year last year OR he deserves credit for sticking with Wong..or he doesnt deserve credit

6/9 of the offense was injured, severely underperforming for most of the year…at some times it was 7/9 with Wong on the DL… yet i say it again….we did not give up and we did not end up in last place and were in the playoff hunt until the last series..

MM replaced guys left and right trying to maximize the offense and defense going to minor leaguers often just to try to stay in the hunt…and it worked…Pham, JMart, DeJong, Sierra and Bader, Gyorko, Garcia for a bit, Voit and even Mejia for a spell…all had major contributions to keeping us in it… MM has to deserve some of the credit for keeping it all going and keeping us in it…his hand may have been forced at times, but that is still on him…and yeah..he made mistakes at times…but when 6/8 of your real offense and expected offense is struggling you have limited options for making it better…and how you keep trying to get guys right while also embracing that changes have to be made to make up for the problems

our system provided lots of options and that helped a lot…

cont’d

[thejager]

seriously? grammar attack?

it’s an idiom…where logic doesnt have to be at the forefront… beyond that…i was meaning it sarcastically
https://www.dictionary.com/e/could-care-less/

forum speak for me is more conversational….and thus understanding the point is the focus…and to correct my “mistake” means you know the meaning well enough the meaning right? so my communication worked….i mean i also misspelled a lot in that post and used lots of incorrect grammar but THAT one you point out? really?

also…maybe i meant I actually COULD care a little bit less…

NJ…oh…and ok…back to the only part of your post that wasnt a personal attack and the only really acceptable part of your post as we are supposed to talk baseball here NOT grammar…

he was basically as good as he was before his injury,,he just gave up more HR balls…
and he isnt the first or only SP this year or any other year that fades a bit at the end…especially given he pitched the whole year and was healthy…AND was coming back from TJ…

again Lynn didnt fall off a cliff in terms of production..more HRs is a bit bothersome but everything else lined up pretty well.. AND he pitched the whole year…even if he faded a bit…

this all is about Rosy coming back for the end of the year run next year and whether that can be expected or not…most of the time the guys come back and pitch well..Lynn did…and if his stats are low a bit over the year…he definitely got worse at the end…but we dont nor expect Rosy to be in all year…he would be two months max…

Lynn was pretty impressive through June outside of 3-4 poor performances (i use this because we’d get the first couple months not the end of the year with a returning from injury player)…and that is out of 16…so you are talking about a good outing 75% of the time for Lynn in the first months coming back from TJ
https://www.teamrankings.com/mlb/player/lance-lynn/game-log/pitching

If we got 75% good outings from Rosy for the last 2.5 months of the year…that’d be pretty good if we are looking at how good Rosy can be… and he could definitely be a big factor for a playoff push….non-tendering him is a possibility…but we dont have a lot of options and have invested a lot already in him and to a degree know what he can give when healthy…it could be a sunken cost to give him a contract even for just a few hopeful months and he doesnt make it back or is bad…but he knows he probably needs to come back and impress to get a contract whether from us or someone else…and he has an opportunity in StL to be THE guy if he comes back strong because of his pedigree…no one else is going to sign him to closer money or give him a closer gig going into 2019 unless he shows it…

but whatever…i think a Rosy 2yr deal to me is a risk…but a risk worth taking…a way to potentially even save a few bucks if we can get him back to what he showed even this year…and if he does what he wants and is good then we’d be potentially all in for giving him a premiere closer role with a new contract after that…OR he coudl use that 1.25 season we pay him for to impress for a bigger contract at still a very young age

dont agree…that’s fine…but at least debate what i am actually talking about…or don’t…do whatever you want

[thejager]

that is fine…i just thought you said you had discovered it from before it would be easily findable

and i understand it is not high priority, but i DO think it would be something to have in a sticky or something along those lines as i’d hate for a new (or old) poster to post and not know why they lost their post

[thejager]

i appreciate the concern…and i know that i might have points missed due to my format…and as i said i know you meant no disrespect…

but i am allowed to vent the way i need to as well as anyone else…and for me it tends to come out in long passages where i can think through ideas as they come…i recognize it has issues potentially…and i am concise more than people give me credit for…but that is not how i think most of the time…

my posts aRE long often…but that’s usually because I think some things need to be said in longer than blurting out short snippets…some things need to be talked through IMO….i dont expect everyone to do the same but i do think explanations and expanding on topics within a post is necessary sometimes…

i know the ignore function isnt a thing here…i know it isnt something you can bring back…but i readily understand would expect some people to block me for my walls of text…it is unfortunate but i expect it…

also..shorter posts from me do happen…and that isnt the problem with getting decent feedback…it’s mostly because i am labeled a rose colored glass homer who isnt logical or realistic about anything and is lambasted because i show optimism…

i am still interested in the character limit if you can provide it please

[thejager]

ahhh…i see now Brian…that makes a lot more sense…

my apologies CC…i did not read your comment right

and yeah…getting an estimate is maybe more the direction it seems i was thinking

[thejager]

warning…these are long…but i had to break them up because of the forum limitations….feel free to skip them if they are too long…i know i am long winded but it is how i think through things sometimes…so i apologize for your mouse scrolling

This team had MANY opportunities to give up on this season…but they did not, they still ended up with a shot at the playoffs despite all the upheaval and angst throw at them from basically the second week of the season

-poor start…but came back…
-we had a long losing streak again later…but came back…lots of ups and downs
-old dependable players being released or traded away…brought up new guys to fill the void…Brox, Kevin, Oh, Peralta, Adams….all gone…and the vet status on them gives them leeway…so yeah you have to run them out over and over…veterans deserve those chances to get back to what they had done…so yeah you lose some of those games because of it…but until the org is willign to move them you cant really do anything…
-new players expected to do well but floundered…find someone else get them in….Diaz, Piscotty two MAJOR parts of what the offense was supposed to be about…add Grichuk in too to some degree
-players we had given up on and written off turning it around…Wong was basically a platoon partner with Gyorko for most people coming into the season and yet he had a very nice season
-role players stepping up in various ways… Gyorko’s power was obvious…but his raised level of defense was a revelation this year…Pham always a role player but turned into a star
-lose the vet of the team and rotation…a kid comes right in and helps (Waino was up and down this season and when we lost him it could have been the end…but it wasn’t Weaver and how he wet his feet in 2016 and the bullpen earlier in the year…stepped right in and amazed)
-closer situation from day one was a mess and we got Rosy back on track to take it…but then lost him to injury…after that we didnt even really have a closer…Lyons was the closest thing to it and getting him into that situation was definitely not on ANYONE’s radar before the season yet MM got him into that role and he did pretty well…
-lots of injuries to key spots…new players stepped up…Fowler played well when he was in there, same with Wong but both got the injury bug right when they were most needed…Carp’s injury too..
-dependable players having really off years…Carp’s down year as bad
-getting no help from the front office with acquisitions to fill the holes
-defense started out terrible and got better (after releasing Peralta and sending Diaz down)
-baserunning issues were especially bad early on…but righted themselves for the most part after the coaching changes happened…still more mistakes than need to be…but we were a young team for most of the year…and the lack of a steady big bat in the middle forced us to feel the need to be super aggressive..

-we were almost literally fielding a AAA team at the end of the year yet we were still right there until the last series…that has to say that MM has SOME ability folks…he coudl have thrown in the towel at any time and no one would have blamed them for losing every game had they went super young and called this a “rebuilding year”…

Seems to me people are MORE upset with MM this year because he actually did do a good job of making the team he was given, and the performance they could give, into a playoff competing team… too much of an attitude of being an MVP or being a scrub mentality to me and doesnt seem appropriate for baseball nor in the determining of whether a manager is good or bad…

so many poor things happened this year BUT the team still stayed in it all year and did not give up…

it wasnt pretty and lots of growing pains (both getting old pains and youthful mistakes)

cont’d

[thejager]

id appreciate if you could get a limit for me to see…that way i can at least not lose posts entirely BEFORE i send them off

“probably bet better for all”?

that is kind of a personal thing to say to me..i dont think other posters are told how much they should write…i know you mean no disrespect and i mean none either…but that reads to me as the admin telling me to stop posting long posts because they dont like it and woudl prefer me not to post my thoughts as i want them

i dont really like being concise all the time nor do i think i should have to be (outside of limitations to the forum) ..people can skip my posts just like i am asked to skip theirs if i dont like them…whether long or short

thansk for the hard work and the quick response

[thejager]

also…as for Lynn (i dont think i said anything about retaining him…whether i think it is good or not isnt being discussed)

the point wasn’t that Lynn came back and was superstar…the point is that he can back and pitched well…i could care less about the sabermetrics concerning him or anyone else…it had to do with coming back after TJ surgery and pitching meaningful and helpful innings in his role… which is why i brought it up…as his return AND Duke…and others throughout the league would seem to prove that players come back from TJ and can contribute in meaningful way…and if we could get a healthy Rosy for Dept/Oct. plus maybe playoffs that is worth the 6-8mil for next year OR a 2-3 yr contract lower with dollar amount per year would command IMO…mud assumed he woudnt be able to come back and be able to contribute…Lynn and duke…and lots others seems to prove otherwise

plus he was a target at the trade deadline so people were interested and he was healthy all year…and he will undoubtedly get a good contract this offseason…will it be super high? probably not because of the sabermetrics, but we know by now team dont make all their decision based on sabermetrics so i’d guess a lot else goes into the equation…

as for Lynn’s contract…hmmm…i lean toward Leake-ish… he will get a lot of deals at 4 yrs….but he will end up taking a 5-6yr deal from someone a bit more desperate, who can be more wasteful with cash, or someone high on him…5yrs 90-100mil front loaded…to the Cubs

[thejager]

thanks Brian…makes sense

i just wondered if when negotiating the new contract if we want to give one for his last arb year that they may put in insurance into the deal to protect themselves somewhat…

i hadnt thought about getting the insurance quote done as a means to influence the negotiations with Boras

also CC..didnt Brian just say that they don’t usually disclose this kind of information? Wouldn’t it then make sense that you or anyone else hadn’t ever heard of it happening?

I mean i havent ever heard of it happening either, but i guess it isnt disclosed very often so i dont see why hearing about it ever that is a decider in it’s practicality or possibility of happening

Still…i am happy to hear about this insurance information very intriguing….i kind of wish teams would disclose it more often

[thejager]

I have trouble posting sometimes…it gives me an error and says posting is not available or something like that

i have lost several posts this way, from mobile and on desktop

is there a limit on characters or something? did i get banned from a topic or something?

EDIT:
i just tried to post in MAtheny as Manager thread but it didnt work…came here an posted…it worked…went back and couldn’t post in the other thread

[thejager]

Lynn came back and pitched fine if not great…. so did Duke who is older and in less time…. why would you assume rosenthal wouldnt be able to help next year?

I disagree on it being a black and white issue with Boras clients, each player and their feelings and positions and desires are all slightly different and while Boras does seem to go for the money and i am sure Rosy wants that too, it is unfair to assume the players desires.

IMO …I think role is what has always driven Rosy, he has never let the hope of starting go away, but he knows he can be a shut down closer. Injuries need and performance knocked him out of either of those roles where he struggled until he was given a shot back at the spotlight. Whether being a close or a starter he seems like he wants and prefers the spotlight. The Cards gave him back that closer role and he started to flourish again. To me, if the Cardinals come at him with the promise of that spotlight they might be able to win him over.

I dont see how you non tender a guy who could be a difference maker when he comes back. He isnt a starter so his stamina wont need to be built back up like Lynn or Waino, and while we cant expect Duke miracles every day we shouldnt throw away a valuable part no matter what…heck we could even trade him when he comes back if we want…we arent in a position where we have an absolute lock for replacing our closer short or long term…

I am interested in how insurance might affect this situation, lets say we pay him and he doesnt play due to recovery etc. i am guessing insurance woudl come into play…maybe not…but id like to know

All of this sounds a lot like the “release Duke” comments that were thrown out last offseason as he had no chance of helping us at all. yet he did, AND was very good….AND had a lot of motivation to do so.

[thejager]

CC

good point…forgot about that

[thejager]

This topic is about Mos view of the offseason…i actually had to look back up to see that…

I agree Sooner…and to be honest that is kind of how the team “felt” this year…not great at anything but definitely not as bad as many people think or want to think…

one thing i like to do is look at the month to month stats…i posted it a while back in another thread…but looking at the defense we got a lot better after the first initial months poor play…in the second half we were VERY good…at least as it relates to some of the defensive metrics…maybe too much on errors getting better…but then again they tend to be what everyone throws their hands up in the air about when needing to point out flaws….

the team got better as the year went on…in almost every aspect…unfortunately we started so bad and our biggest push only amounted to getting us tied for 1st when you’d hope your big run pushes you up a few games

i hate the ideas of a team “needing” stars…but i think that really is what we are missing…stars who are stars for unique abilities on the field

a guy like Simmons could be a difference maker for the defense just like Yadi is behind the plate…
Stanton is a difference maker not just in his HR power but in how the fear of him gets others guys around him better pitches.. to me if Carp had Stanton behind him from day one of this season…he would have been REALLY good even with his shoulder woes…Carp already has one of the best eyes in baseball…give him the added ability to know they arent going to pitch around you to the AB and he gets more pitches in the zone, and he has plenty of power and ability to take advantage of those opportunities…

-1 REALLY scary bat…or 2 pretty scary bats
-backend veteran help
-an impact pitcher to replace Lynn
-trading a lot to even up the minor league depth…we can do trades of minor leaguers too not just using them for fixing the MLB team…dealing with the glut at a few positions and evening it out is a real concern IMO..maybe trade young OF depth for a nice 1b prospect…or trade a few young SPs for a 3bman prospect…whether farther off or closer….

it is a lot for any GM to take on…but we tried fixing everything internally and it really hasnt worked out in producing “stars”…it produces really good solid MLB players…and those are wonderful…i mean we basically fielded our AAA team for a chunk of the year and they still were only a couple games out of the playoffs…..that means the lower levels are doing their jobs…but the byproduct of our success is not having access to superstar young talent because of our drafting limitations…add is we limit our international spending for the big gamble players like Robert and others…so we are left with what we make…so…we need to go out and suck it up and pay for a couple of stars….whether using our very useful and valuable MLB ready depth or with cold hard cash…either way…we have to pay

you want to regain the confidence of your fan base…be drastic
-trade for Stanton and Gordon (including Wong)…this is basically a FA like deal where money is more important than the players lost really
-trade for Longoria and Archer…costly in terms of prospects…
-do these and then you can save alittle money on looking at bullpen help as no one coudl fault them for not being aggressive…and there woudl be plenty to help out…mayeb you even add Ziegler into the Stanton deal and also sign Nicasio

-Stanton brings in ESPN coverage and statcast HR lovers…we lose he still would put butts in seats and challenge for HR crowns ala McGwire..
-Gordon brings in a legit leadoff guy with elite SB talent (led the league) which StL fans would love to see as the 80’s fans are the big money watchers now right?
-Longoria adds dependable defense and solid bat with veteran status..he may not be Rolen but he will not make us worry about defense
-Archer is cost controlled Ace with youth and exuberance on his side…he is what we HOPE we get our young SPs to turn into…

it is drastic and aggressive and expensive…but it is an offseason plan that doesnt look at just fulfilling the desire of the team makeup but also fulfills the desires of the fans and the things that they like and want

It is a pipe dream undoubtedly but what is really crazy is that it is actually do-able without mortgaging our future…
-Stanton and Gordon and Ziegler is all about salary dump…so whoever throws the best prospect and asks to eat the least amount of money will win…Flaherty + Wong + Grichuk + Gomber + maybe Tuivalala does tha get it done?
-Archer and Longoria it gets scary….but doesnt leave us bare…Kelly + Reyes might do it by themselves… but i’d try for Kelly OR Reyes…adding other good youngsters like Alcantara, Hudson, Hicks, Garcia, Carp, Gyorko Piscotty…etc etc…to make it work…would Kelly + Hudson + Perez + Gyorko (we eat a little money), + Diaz + Sierra + Woodford be enough?

we may have to say goodbye to some guys we like…Kelly, Flaherty, Carpenter, Pham, Grichuk, Piscotty, Gyorko, maybe even Reyes or Weaver anybody other than CMart, Waino, and Yadi…maybe DeJong are all fair game…

a team of:
-CMart, Archer, Wacha, Weaver, Waino (Reyes)
-Nicasio, Ziegler, Cecil, Bowman, Brebbia, Lyons, Alcantara
-Gordon (speed SB on base and contact), Pham (speed SB contact power), Carp (very good eye), Stanton (protects Carp), Longoria (protects Stanton), Fowler, Yadi, DeJong…
-Hanigan (etc.), GGarcia, JMart, Piscotty, Bader (Mejia is at AAA if we need better SS depth)

is dynamic and is veteran driven in the lineup but youthful in the rotation…young bench and a mix in the pen…

and there would still be young pitchers close, and some depth for the pen, and some roel players at AAA along with a few difference makers like ONeill and AdGarcia…Knizner and Jeremy pick up the mantle as future catcher

pipe dreams of course…i know…

but my point is that as an offseason plan…to make a real change you need to make REAL changes…and doing those is possible with the assets we have…and we can not only solve the team concerns but also appearance concerns AND fan desires both locally and nationally..

forgetting to address what the fans want (not just the Cardinals fans mind you) cant be forgotten

[thejager]

I am thinking we might see NIcasio signing on the first day we can. the management seems enamored by him

[thejager]

question…

which would you prefer?

-Longoria + Archer
or
-Stroman + Donaldson

Both seem to have positives and negatives to me

also:

-Stanton + Gordon – Wong
or
-Hosmer + Ozuna – Piscotty

[thejager]

I just wanted to include the need IMO for a backup vet catcher that we will need…for either replacing Kelly if we trade him OR if we keep Kelly but woudl rather him play everyday at AAA…

you can leave it off if you want…i doubt anyone else will include it anyways

[thejager]

Brian….
nice piece…

i do wonder though how the numbers from last year might be skewed due to the Reds crazy hot start…they racked up a lot of wins against us and others in the division really early…then they came down to earth and became what we saw at the end of the year…and while you might blame it on pitching injuries…they added better pitchers to their rotation later in the year…really only Feldman was any good in the 1st half…

the Reds deserved every win they got…but that early season Reds team seems an aberration…and due to the amount of interleague matchups early may have skewed the numbers a bit

[thejager]

CC…
i like the idea of Ozuna centering on Grichuk or Piscotty…though i might think they’d shy away as Grich is arb eligible right? and PIscotty already has a deal…now if they moved Stanton already before the Ozuna to us deal then absolutely either woudl be good…

brings up a good question…who right now has more trade value? Grichuk or Piscotty?
PIscotty’s contract and poor year could be big red flags from getting good value…Grichuk’s value seems to be exactly what he is showing but he is arb eligible now and how much is a k heavy outfielder who cant lay off sliders and high cheese?

[thejager]

cool topic…nice and tidy

1-Middle order bat…IMO Stanton trade…FA option Hosmer
2-Lesser middle order bat…IMO Longoria trade…FA option Bruce
3-top of rotation starter…IM Archer trade…FA option go with inning eater like Feldman as we’d likely still have our young SPs who Feldman and Waino would be warming the seats for
4-new pitching coach…pretty high on my list as i think it is really important…go big
5-backend reliever who COULD close…IMO Nicasio deal + Rosy deal would be fine…NEshek is another strong option
6-convert one of our young SPs to reliever for the foreseeable future (Hudson, Alcantara, etc.)
7-trade trade trade…free up 40man and 25man spots…group deals, 1for1’s whatever it takes to cut the fat

8-i know this is cheating…but it is a little one and i used one of mine on a pitching coach…acquire veteran catcher like Hanigan to allow Kelly to play every day at AAA until he is needed

[thejager]

Brian…i know you aren’t denying us features…i was just expressing why they could be useful as it pertains to the thread’s behavior…

i know you’re doing your best…and that kind of personal help if we did want to talk to someone outside of the forum is pretty impressive…thanks for making that offer

as for thread closing… that was just my opinion…i dont get my way in most things in life..so no big deal… but i still like to ask or state my opinions…

thanks for taking the time

nevertheless back to baseball talk indeed!

[thejager]

This is all why the ignore feature would be useful

IMO Stop engaging bcc. No matter how blatant you are they aren’t willing to engage in a way you want.

If you need to keep going then go for it I guess but no matter how obvious and clear your thoughts are presented they will not recognize them in any way other than what they have vilified You as representing. Regardless if it is based in fact or accuracy.

They don’t need to like you or agree with you. Engage with the replies you want and disregard the others. Like I said it is why ignore features were so useful in the last iteration of this board. It made it possible to have an opinion and when you Etre repeatedly attacked or misrepresented you could just not see someone’s posts and as unfortunate as it can be it allowed you to give up on them. Without a feature like that (nor private messaging so I could send this personally) these kinds of terrible and repetitive exchanges are hard to avoid.

Nevertheless I scream into the void and bang my head against the wall on here forums all the time too but I am trying to get better about not reading some posts.

I think this thread should just be closed. It’s obvious the only people really participating have made their opinions clear and are only really here to yell louder. It seems a pointless exercise to keep this going and it is only getting more and more abusive as it keeps going.

Or it can keep going forever as it definitely isn’t going to die without help.

[thejager]

Motte got hurt in 2014 and was not good when he did play in 2014 (6+ERA) while making 7.5mil from us…

Cubs signed him the next year for 4.5 mil after the bad year AND the injury+had a decent year in Chicago
then signed for 2yrs 5mil per with the Rox and was bad

then got the league minimum with the Braves while still getting paid by the Rox right?

a high leverage closer level guy with a pedigree of closing in big games and a big fastball gets paid…even after injuries…didnt Davis get a nice contract from the cubs this year sight unseen after a big injury? and he did just fine

it took 3 years of contracts AFTER getting hurt for him not to make about 5mil per year and was older than Rosy

i’d say what Rosy showed this year is way better than what MOtte showed in 2014…and we dont have a guy like Rosy waiting behind Rosy like Motte did

to me a 2yr deal at 10mil makes sense …the team option for us for a 3rd year makes it a bit sweeter in case he is really good and the buyout in 2019 for a reasonable amount would save us from eating the whole 10mil if he goes bad…

it is a gamble…but rosy has shown plenty of ability and the TJ surgery is pretty much a year off at this point…when was the last guy who didnt come back and perform? plus Rosy has ALL the motivation to do so as he wants to get paid…or deal gives him the ability to focus on rehab without worrying about money whiel still keeping him motivated to come back and be good as his age he woudl still enter FA at 31 even after 3 total years

IMO he definitely gets a contract from someone…he is too young and coudl still even switch back to starting, has a big fastball, is still pretty cheap and has a pedigree of success, even if it comes with some bumps

CC…i get your thought process i just disagree… that’s not a big deal…we will see what happens with him

[thejager]

i dont know the going rate for ROsy…i agree that a minor league deal isnt going to happen…i think he could be an impact guy for us in the final push next year as i think he will come back strong and wanting to impress

i say offer 2 yrs 10mil (he is making 6.4mil this year) with an 8mil team option for a 3rd year…perhaps a buyout for the 2019 of like 3.5mil…in case we want to cut bait….

that roughly pays him what he is making now but for the amount of time he would actually play for us over a 2year span….the buyout still guarantees him a healthy chunk even if he cant pitch anymore and the 3rd yr team option is high enough that he would be getting paid decently should he do well…and even if he stays after the 3 yrs he woudl still only be 31 and we would only have used up 2 yrs of his FA years

i saw a lot of really good stuff from him this year when he was given the closer role… the type of stuff we are going to be looking for in the next couple years…NIcasio is band aid even if re-signed and whiel i like Reyes, and Alcantara and hudson as power relievers, i think probably at least one will be gone this offseason in a trade and Reyes seems destined long term for the rotation as does Alcantara…at least that is hat the team is saying…even if that means a couple years for them in the pen before they hit the rotation… Rossy would be able to provide veteran closing experience for a few years while we groom someone else, OR decide Rosy is worth re-investing in….in my scenario over three years he’d be getting around 6mil on average at most..and if the team option isnt gone after we’d get 1.5ish years of him for roughly 5mil per year…and if he was REALLY done coming back from surgery…we’d overpay for .5 years at 8.5mil…. it’s a gamble but if we believe he will be healthy after the surgery and it seems more and more likely that is sure thing post TJ surgery rather than a hope…we are looking at worse at a veteran Cardinals system backend bullpen guy with the stuff to be an all star closer

it’s gamble…but it has such high rewards id be in on it….even if the numbers i have are all wrong

[thejager]

i think the Craig and Piscotty deals without the aid of hindsight seemed appropriate
we sold high on Craig and moved that contract and got back useful parts that worked out for us in the logn run so i don’t see the mistake at all

Piscotty indeed seem too soon to evaluate

Wong’s contract last year was lambasted and after his down year last year who woudlnt hate on it…but he has a good year this year and now it is a great cost effective signing..

The Piscotty deal gets at least one more year to decide on it’s value IMO…family issues combined with a sophomore slump is alot to deal with…he gets a free pass this year…but if he is around next year and doesn’t figure it out…definitely a bd move on the contract

i think the real mistakes re the FA signings
Cecil signing looks poor…but made sense as a signing, but 4 years always sat wrong with me…he has been pretty dependable up until this year but 4 yrs is a long time
Fowler signing is being panned…and i agree as i thought we had plenty of OF depth and Grichuk’s defense in CF wasnt really that bad last year… an upgrade to the offense made sense, but in CF i just wasn’t seeing it…corner OF or 3b/1b made more sense…

i hope we make a deal with ROsy this offseason to try to sneak an extra year of control on him while he recovers…a nice and tidy 2yr deal for 2018-19 with a team option at a healthy increase woudl be fine with me… the ROsy we saw this year was worth the investment…and he has always had elite closer stuff, even if he turns into a setup man…he’s worth paying for a lost year to get a shot at a cheaper year in 2019 and maybe 2020…

[thejager]

i agree that i think we should look outside…i just remember reading somewhere that the Memphis PC was going to be considered…and it may have said something like “highly” considered or something along those lines… it coudl be posturing, but it is what it is

[Author]

Posts