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Wouldn’t cost near that much. With the salary of Snell and pending FA and salary of Clevinger, especially if you’re taking on a remaining $5 and next years $10 of a unknown in Pomeranz.
And rather than Burleson and Winn for Lopez, I’d rather send O’Neill to CHWS for Giolito or Kopech. I don’t know that either one of those teams is sellers. I think MIA could sell expiring contracts, but with their staff I’d keep building around it, but understand their need to add some offense to a bottom third offense. And with CHWS only 3 games back I don’t know if they’d sell a SP or not, but they do have a need for corner OF.
Sorry had that backwards, so my manual adding of Weathers to SD was backwards, but could be made up in WASH covering some of Corbin’s 2024 salary. But it doesn’t change the Cardinals value other than they actually loose 0.2 in value because they actually are adding money this season, but cut money for for 2023.
667, so you are saying we could get Clevinger and Pomeranz by giving up DeJong, VerHagen, and Nootbaar?
VerHagen isn’t in the website. I estimated him as -4, and substituted him in the trade as WASH sending $4 to STL. When running it through the 3 team trade it won’t let me add all those players to WASH either. But I can get close and then just add Weathers on the end manually. And it came out STL gaining 0.2 value, WASH gaining 0.3 value, SD at -0.5 value. So it shows its about as even as can be.
The only starting OF I want to see parted with is O’Neill. Thier system is deep right now with really good talent. They are in a prime spot for another 10-15 years of year in and year out good seasons. There is absolutely zero way I want this system gutted. I’ve made it clear I’m not the biggest Gorman believer and I’m saying NO. No Carlson. No Walker. I would possibly talk Winn because I don’t fully believe in his bat, but at this point keep developing and keep being successful. If they gut this system for Soto to win the World Sieres, it only slightly makes their odds better with absolutely not even close to a guarantee. Then in 2 years you’re without him and everything you traded away and were the bottom of the central and looking just like Washington looks right now, or you sign him and the budget is gone and the team is Soto, aging Arenado, and whatever little youth is left.
1)Snell to SEA for 1-2 minor leaguers
2)
SD Gets: Soto (WASH), Corbin (WASH), Nootbaar (STL)
STL Gets: Clevinger (SD), Pomeranz (SD)
WASH Gets: DeJong, VerHagen (STL), Myers, Abrams, Gore, Hassell, Merrill, Weathers (SD)SEA adds approximately $6.5 this year, $16.5 in 2023
SD sheds $8.5 remaining this year and get below luxury cap, then adds about $18 for 2023 (estimating Soto arbitration), and about $60 in 2024 (again estimating Soto arbitration)
STL adds about $3 remaining this year and sheds about $2.2 for 2023.
WASH sheds about $1.2 this year, $32 for 2023, and about $60 for 2024.-SEA adds a SP to round out thier rotation.
-SD still has Darvish, Musgrove, Manaea, Martinez, Corbin as a rotation. The future payroll could be an issue, but they add Soto to their struggling OF, Nootbaar for OF depth and a deep lineup.
-STL rotation of Mikolas, Wainwright, Clevinger, Matz, Hudson. Pomeranz is on the 60 day and working way back. Is depth and signed at $10 for 2023, with Clevinger a FA. Still have Woodford, Baker, Nunez, other lower prospects available to add to the pen and address the real needs and not adding an expensive OF costing the future.
-WASH unloads a ton of future money, adds SD #1 and #4 (Hassell and Merrill), 2021 #1 and #4 (Abrams and Gore) who are both in MLB now, and 2020 #5 (Weathers) who’s shown promise, but been injured and struggled this year. They start their total rebuild. They take on 4 extra 40 man players in this deal, but they still have Bell, Cruz, Y. Hernandez, C. Hernandez they can easily more for lower minor leaguers and Escobar is a simple DFA.And you can check the values through BTV, it says it’s even all around and I solved SD money problem this year (they can figure out their own future), STL pitching problem and didn’t give up the whole future and break the budget.
MLB trade rumors added BOS, TEX, TOR, NYM to my list. And I’m going to add BALT to it. They are hot, have a lot of young talent and how else to say to your fans were ready to compete than making a big trade.
The market is there for a high pric, as Rat would put it, “A kings ransom”.
They also said “Carlson, Walker, Liberatore, and then some”. I’ll keep saying it, No thanks.Padres (Preller is nuts about trading and always super agressive)
Astros
Mariners (Dopito is nuts about trading, seems agressive)
Giants (already LH heavy, but they need a bat)
Yankees (why not, and have money to eat Corbin to make prospect return less)
Dodgers (see Yankees)All teams I could definitely see in on the bidding, could be more, they are going to get top return, or they won’t move him. Like I’ve said previously this is very similar to if WASH would have traded a young controlled Harper, LAA trading a young controlled Trout, and pretty similar to if the Cardinals would have traded a young Pujols.
They need to just get out of the talks. It’s going to cost too much for my liking. As much as I’d like to see O’Neill traded packaging Walker, Winn, Graceffo, Hence with him and still being stuck with DeJong and VerHagen isn’t what I want to see.
He was ejected Saturday from a Puerto Rico basketball game, which he’s part owner of, for kicking a basketball. Still looking over weight. Probably still disinterested in baseball like he was when he was with the team, or sure seemed like it.
This organization has been really good at consistently being competitive every year for 22+ years now. It’s hard to think they would consider risking solid to all-star production at 3-5 positions for 2 years of 1 guy, who if you’re going to keep beyond that is going to absolutely break the budget.
What would 2016 Bryce Harper commanded in a trade? 23 years old with 2 more years of control. How about 2015 Mike Trout? How about 2005 Albert Pujols?
To help your argument though we can look at Yelich and he was 25 and the haul Miami supposedly landed I don’t think any of them are still in the organization. Or look all the way back to Miguel Cabrera and the face can’t miss Cameron Maybin and Andrew Miller along with 5 other prospects went to Florida. And none of them lived up to much, until Miller went to RP in BOS 5 years later. Many times it’s better to take the sure thing. But it’s awful hard to give up the possi of what Walker, Winn, Liberatore, Gorman could all be for probably 2 years of Soto. I’d be willing to say whoever they would trade their WAR in STL would be significantly higher over their kept careers than Soto could put up in 2.5 years.
Mud, I think you’re WAY low. They would absolutely laugh at that offer. Washington isn’t even talking unless it starts with Walker AND Winn AND Liberatore or Carlson AND Gorman.
According to BTV Walker, Winn, Liberatore = 110.8. Carlson and Gorman= 133.10. Soto himself is 176.8.
It cost LAD their #1,#2,#17, and another for 1.5 year of Turner and .5 year of Scherzer.If they do it, which I hope they don’t, it’s going to be COSTLY
The market is super thin. There’s only 10 sellers, there aren’t big time options available, the cost of anything is going to be high and I think Washington sees it and is thinking they can get an absolute haul for him right now and try to reload their system to compete in 3 years, but if there isn’t an offer they like they can try again in the off season with little change. Especially if a team views him as a better option than spending on Judge oe loses out on Judge.
I think Washington realizes realistically they are more than 3 years from competing again. Bad contracts in Straburg and Corbin, thin in top prospects, some of their recent prospects like Carter Kieboom haven’t panned out, their #4 prospect Jackson Rutledge (STL kid) has struggled bad in A ball at 23 years old, they got C Ruiz and SP Gray (LAD #1 and #2 prospects) for Turner and Scherzer last deadline but the other 2 in Casey and Carrillo (LAD #17) have struggled. With all that they are dangling a 23 year old with 2.5 years of control who is one of the best bats in MLB and trying to reload a thin system to rebuild.
They were just talking on MLB Network and Washington basically has him on the market to try to get as much as possible. Cardinals were mentioned and said probably starts with the likes of Carlson, Gorman, Liberatore, plus.
Like I’ve said. No thanks. Get a couple pitchers.
Yeah, I’ve read it. “The Cardinals also have the ability to offer a package that includes some combination of Jordan Walker, Masyn Winn, Dylan Carlson, and Tyler O’Neill, among others”. No thanks. You say “Then Walker can take over RF”. They don’t have Soto without giving up Walker, guaranteed.
A lot of teams would beat that. Then you also create a log jam in the OF. And according to BTV you created 32.7 in trade value, your 1/5 the way there. They don’t have to trade him, they are listening. It’s going to take overwhelming offer.
There’s absolutely no way I consider trading for Soto. Way to many prospects needed and they’ll never sign him.
23, controlled for 2 more years, 145 BB/93 K last year, 79 BB/54 K this year, 160 career OPS+, which is what he’s at this year again. Lots if reasons he’s not going to be a Cardinal because it’s going to take O’Niell, Walker, Winn, Liberatore, Graceffo to even get them talking and they probably will want more or Cardinals to take on a lot of Corbin’s contract. According to BTV those 5 are a 158 to Soto’s 166.5 himself.
suggesting Noot and Oviedo for Snell
I’m not a huge Snell fan, and this seems slightly high, but I think it’s close. He’s only made 10 starts this year for 50 innings and a 5.22 ERA, still generating K’s, but seems to have lost command. It also doesn’t solve the dead weight problem though with DeJong, VerHagen, McFarland and doesn’t leave a clear path of how to because SD is trying to shed money and won’t take them on. Which leads me to SD side of this. I know they are rumored to be shedding money to stay out of the tax and it makes sense they trade from SP that they have Darvish, Musgrove, Manaea, Clevinger, Snell, Gore, Martinez. Musgrove is having a great year and is a FA after the season, along with Manaea and Clevinger being FA after this year. Snell is signed at $13.1 this season and $16.6 next.
BTV says O’Neill, Walker, Winn, Liberatore, Graceffo, Nunez for Soto and Corbin (with the Cardinals eating all of Corbin) isn’t enough, and that’s before you try to get WASH to eat DeJong, VerHagen, McFarland too.
I don’t see a chance of him being in STL. They need to add a middle of the rotation SP and another pen arm, find a way to dump DeJong, VerHagen, McFarland in the process and keep on hoping and praying it all comes together. Like I’ve said before add that “Edwin Jackson” and “Octavio Dotel” and hope that allows everyone else to fall into place. The injuries have thrown a wrench in it for sure, but if they think Bader is back sooner rather than later I’d move O’Neill in a heartbeat if it filled the SP and RP holes. Even if that means LF is pieced together with Donovan, Dickerson, Nootbaar, Yepez, and maybe finally giving Burleson a chance.
I know Kelly has been mentioned a lot, but I have a feeling the bidding for him is going to be really high as he might be the best SP available if AZ even decides to move him which they wouldn’t have to. They could easily move Peralta, Walker, maybe Kennedy and Melancon. Add a SS in the off-season to have a pretty good lineup and a rotation headed by Kelly, Gallen, Bumgarner and still look to compete. Which is why I think if Kelly is traded again its not STL because the demand is going to be way to high because they are going to have to be overwhelmed to move him.
I saw it scroll across the screen Yepez to IL with forearm strain. Nootbaar and Thompson recalled. Didn’t see what pitcher, I assume, was IL also.
It will be interesting to see what’s done at the deadline, who’s left, if they give Burleson a chance after, hoping he’s not 1 of them traded.
1. Tommy Edman (S) SS
2. Dylan Carlson (S) CF
3. P. Goldschmidt (R) 1B
4. Nolan Arenado (R) 3B
5. Brendan Donovan (L) 2B
6. Tyler O’Neill (R) LF
7. Nolan Gorman (L) DH
8. C. Dickerson (L) RF
9. Austin Romine (R) C
I was just reading some recent reviews on Missouri Bluffs and it’s not got great reviews this summer.
I belive the links course is Gateway National. It’s in Illinois, but golfpass ranked it #2 in the area behind Annbriar.Any golfers in St Louis?
I’ve got a chance to play Annbriar this weekend. Just have time find something to do with my kids so I can go. A guy I play with that plays a lot and all over the area has mentioned playing an Missouri Bluffs and enjoyed it and there was a Links course I know he’s talked about too in the area, but I don’t recall the name for sure.