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I agree with Jnevel, Nunez has had his stock raised as much as Hence. He is blocked by many as a DH and first base. Also include Baker in the blocked category.
But I would not include Burleson in any trade, unless we get an ace starting pitcher.I think Nootbaar definitely has value. Drafted in 2018 and played 56 games in A-, 2019 split the year basically in thirds from A, A+, AA. Loses the 2020 year. 2021 starts the year in AAA and plays 35 games before being forced up due to necessity. Still is 24 and has more MLB AB’s than AAA. He’s still learning and adjusting. I don’t think he’s a stud prospect that’s going to get a large return, but he’s definitely got value. KC probably is going to move Benintendi and Taylor. AZ will probably move Peralta and maybe Walker. Both of them could definitely view Nootbaar as a valuable return and getting regular playing time for them to continue to make proper adjustments. I don’t think he’s a star, but I think he’s at worst a 4th OF, at best could very well be a regular OF with above avg production.
Which leads me to Burleson. From what I’ve seen from my amateur eyes and what I’ve read of comps to Lance Berkman, I’m not mentioning Burleson in talks unless we’re talking Kopech, Giolito, Cease, Bieber, or you catch my drift, a young and really good pitcher. And I don’t see that on any team selling. I think Burleson probably is best at 1B long term, but is serviceable in LF at least until after after Goldschmidt is gone and with DH that gives him more AB’s. Maybe he doesn’t live up anywhere close to what I think he can be, maybe he’s Brett Wallace, but I don’t want to see him go at all.
If they can get something out of Gomez, Noot and Capel for either a young prospect or a compensation pick, then Burleson is even more valuable to the Cards. Out of those three, Noot would be the one I’d want to keep, but other teams likely feel the same.
For this year, and the need for at least two SP for 2023, I still think a Bader or TON to the Pads for Snell with extra pieces probably thrown in makes to much sense for both sides. Cards get a decent SP for 1.5 years, Pads get 1.5 years of an OF who isn’t awful and their main motivation is to get extra wiggle room to make additions to get under the tax.
Assuming Bader for Snell, and it won’t likely be that simple, and Capel and Noot are cashed in, it seems there would be plenty of depth the next few years.
2022 OF: TON, Carlson, Dickerson, Yepez, Donovan, Burleson
2023 OF: TON, Carlson, Burleson, Yepez, Donovan
2024 OF: Walker, Carlson, Burleson, Yepez, Edman, Donovan2022 SP: Miles, Waino, Snell, Sadly Hudson, Matz, Pallante (looks a lot better to me)
2023 SP: Syndergaard/Manaea/Clevinger/Trade/ETC, Miles, Snell, Matz, Pallante, Libby, Thompson, maybe Gordon G later onBased on Burleson’s profile and performance, I would hold onto him. Having a lefty with power is valuable considering the makeup of their current roster. He can easily slide in and take Dickerson’s roster spot next year.
In terms of the roster construction and the need to move guys or risk losing them in the Rule V, I don’t think the Cardinals should have any issues finding space for guys worth keeping. Mo has a lot of dispensable pieces on their 40-man (Naile, Pacheco, VerHagen, Walsh, Whitley) or guys set to retire (Molina, Pujols, Wainwright?) or not be asked back after their contract expires (Dickerson, Romine, McFarland).
When I was going through the Cardinals roster and seeing all the roster spots that could/should be turned over next year, I must admit being disappointed. There was a time when the Cardinals roster was wedged with quality players. Now, every year it seems like the team is fighting to overcome mediocrity from about a third of the roster. This is growing increasingly frustrating, because the team continues to sell this idea that they are close, but never actually seem interested in pushing forward. Instead, we get theories about this not being the year because the Cubs were stacked or the Dodgers are loaded for a long run and now it’s the Mets looking too good to challenge for the pennant. At some point, you have to be one of those teams. Arenado and Goldschmidt are not getting younger and Molina is gone after this year. Wainwright is running out of starts. The fact they continue to phone in their offseasons and trade deadlines should start resulting in some changes in the front office.
Kylmss, the Cardinal business model is to build an 88 win team and hope to overachieve and get hot at the end of the year to make a playoff run. They refuse to push their chips in and try to build a 95 win team because they fear that losing too many future assets could lead to a losing season or two and they assume Cardinal fans couldn’t stomach that.
As a fan I want to see my team always striving to win a championship. I understand that 29 teams finish the year disappointed but you have to give yourself a chance right? Instead, ownership believes that keeping the turnstiles turning is most important. I do believe they want to win but I also believe that profitability is their highest priority and I get that from a business perspective but fans view it differently.
And to add to the previous discussion I look forward to our DH combo being Burleson/Yepez instead of Dickerson/Albert. I wouldn’t trade either of those young guys.
I agree with the previous opinion that Nunez is a prime trade candidate.
I figured it out….
Cards get Snell and 39th competitive pick
Padres get Bader or TON and Gomez or CapelWin – win
I can’t argue with the 88-win philosophy, but I just don’t understand why that is the approach. The franchise has never been a top-5 in payroll, but they’ve still managed to build great rosters in the past because the front office was diligent in constantly improving the roster. They still spend, they just spend poorly and that’s the most frustrating part of these holes being discussed in this thread. They should not be so glaring in so many areas if Mo and his staff would dedicate a little more time to evaluating at the pro level and actually looking to build a full roster. Not just add one or two guys and hope others plug gaps with career years. The Cardinals are paying $5.5 million dollars to TJ McFarland and Drew VerHagen this season and they are a combined -1.4 bWAR. If that is the approach you are going to take, why not just avoid spending the money all together and roll with a guy like Angel Rondon (who they gave away for nothing due a “roster crunch”) or Jake Woodford in the pen?
For the record, the Cards will not be trading for a current Nats OFer who just turned down a $440M deal.
I agree with that. Gutting your farm system for two months of Soto only to see him sign elsewhere in the offseason would make no sense.
Strike that, he has two years left of control not two months. I still don’t think I would gut the farm for him though. We need pitching.
Soto could be an interesting case study. When superstars become available the assumption is always everyone will be demanding their services, but only so many can actually afford them and only a couple of them can afford them without absolutely destroying their team. We’ve seen with the Nationals, that he is not good enough to overcome a terrible roster to pile up wins. My guess is the Nationals shop Soto hoping someone is willing to unload a farm system for him until 2024, when they unload him for something more reasonable once he’s closer to free agency or they just keep him until he leaves like they did with Harper.
KylMss, when the Cards lost Stanton, that worked out better. When the Cards let Albert walk, that worked out. When the Cards didn’t get Price, that worked out.
I completely agree, CardsFanInChiTown. Baseball cannot be won by a couple of players. The Angels are showing that every year they continue to flounder with two generational talents putting up prime-year numbers. I have no issues with the Cardinals shying away from big-dollar players like Soto or Judge or Correa. The Cardinals can’t function targeting those players.
With that said, they still need to flex their financial advantages with a better full roster. Mo has gotten into this weird habit of targeting middle-tier players and giving them deals that are just a little too long and too much. I still don’t understand his unwillingness to tip his toe back into the short-term, high-value contracts he once exploited with success for Beltran and Berkman. Seeing some rumors the Cardinals are checking in on Syndergaard, who signed a one-year, $21M contract to build back his value. What I don’t understand is why Mo isn’t looking at guys like that or Carlos Rodon, who essentially signed a one-year deal to show he’s healthy. Busch is a pitchers park. You can go sign a guy looking to build value for a long-term contract and avoid this scramble drill before the deadline. Yes, that means every year Mo and his staff are going to have to work during the winter to build a roster, but you end up with little risk on guys like that. If they suck, you just move on. Yes, money is spent, but they are spending money now and getting little out of it and will end up spending more to fill their holes.
Their big mistake was not adding another starter after Matz this past Winter, you had to much injury history and inexperience on the staff going into Spring training, and then they just wasted money on Witgren and VerHagen who hadn’t done anything and still haven’t. I gotta think signing one of McHugh or even Tepera would have been a much better way to use that money.
While not a trade issue, I would look also at replacing the entire training staff after this year this team has way to many injuries with strains and pulls and so on.
For the record, the Cards will not be trading for a current Nats OFer who just turned down a $440M deal.
Not so fast my friend!!! lmao
Per CBS sports… 1. Cardinals
This is almost certain to age poorly, but yes, we think the Cardinals have the clearest path of any team to acquiring Soto. They’ve won out on Paul Goldschmidt and Nolan Arenado in recent seasons, and have taken swings on Francisco Lindor, among others, demonstrating that they have the appetite and willingness to make a blockbuster addition. The Cardinals also have the ability to offer a package that includes some combination of Jordan Walker, Masyn Winn, Dylan Carlson, and Tyler O’Neill, among others. Additionally, they’ll have Goldschmidt’s contract coming off the books after the 2024 season … or right when Soto’s extension would crank up to cover his free-agent years. It’s possible Soto would prefer to play on a coast, but shy of that, Mike Rizzo should direct one of his first phone calls about Soto to the Cardinals.
And I’ll 100% disagree with the arms we had coming in with Woodford in the mix. A couple of good bullpen arms was the need as the pen imo was the weak link especially if you took Hicks out of it. Instead they decided to band aid with the 4 jokers they signed.
I think adding a starter could help the bullpen because Pallante should not be expected to start for much longer this year. He’s been rushed to the big leagues. He has shown he can compete, but expecting him to remain strong through September is a reach. Get another reliable starter to push him back to the pen and they have a decent group, assuming Mo stops expecting McFarland and VerHagen to contribute.
A starter would exactly put Pallante where he should be for the 2nd half.
I mean what is a starter for Soto? I have seen they would want a team to possibly take on a dead weight contract. (Corbin)
Flaherty (with commissioners consent)
Walker or Gorman
O’neill or Bader
Graceffo
Paninegua
DeJong (wishing)
another guyBTV says O’Neill, Walker, Winn, Liberatore, Graceffo, Nunez for Soto and Corbin (with the Cardinals eating all of Corbin) isn’t enough, and that’s before you try to get WASH to eat DeJong, VerHagen, McFarland too.
I don’t see a chance of him being in STL. They need to add a middle of the rotation SP and another pen arm, find a way to dump DeJong, VerHagen, McFarland in the process and keep on hoping and praying it all comes together. Like I’ve said before add that “Edwin Jackson” and “Octavio Dotel” and hope that allows everyone else to fall into place. The injuries have thrown a wrench in it for sure, but if they think Bader is back sooner rather than later I’d move O’Neill in a heartbeat if it filled the SP and RP holes. Even if that means LF is pieced together with Donovan, Dickerson, Nootbaar, Yepez, and maybe finally giving Burleson a chance.
I know Kelly has been mentioned a lot, but I have a feeling the bidding for him is going to be really high as he might be the best SP available if AZ even decides to move him which they wouldn’t have to. They could easily move Peralta, Walker, maybe Kennedy and Melancon. Add a SS in the off-season to have a pretty good lineup and a rotation headed by Kelly, Gallen, Bumgarner and still look to compete. Which is why I think if Kelly is traded again its not STL because the demand is going to be way to high because they are going to have to be overwhelmed to move him.
Cards667, thanks for sharing and H.E double hockey stick NO. The posters on here are more educated than random fans and I’d guess 99% on here would pass on that all and every day.
A perfect example of giving up a boat load for one guy and how that doesn’t work…. the LA Lakers getting Anthony Davis. They gave up several very good young players and draft picks and couldn’t even make the playoffs.
I just read an article where they were suggesting Noot and Oviedo for Snell…. I want them to get Snell, but absolutely no. At least my crazy proposals “usually” try to give a why would the other side do it.
I’m upping my offer to them before this afternoon. TON or Bader and Noot for Snell and the 39th pick….
Should this be on the Burleson page since this would likely involve him being called up?
I just read an article where they were suggesting Noot and Oviedo for Snell…. I want them to get Snell, but absolutely no. At least my crazy proposals usually try to give a “why would the other side do it”.
I’m upping my offer to them before this afternoon. TON or Bader and Noot for Snell and the 39th pick….
Should this be on the Burleson page since this would likely involve him being called up?
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