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suggesting Noot and Oviedo for Snell
I’m not a huge Snell fan, and this seems slightly high, but I think it’s close. He’s only made 10 starts this year for 50 innings and a 5.22 ERA, still generating K’s, but seems to have lost command. It also doesn’t solve the dead weight problem though with DeJong, VerHagen, McFarland and doesn’t leave a clear path of how to because SD is trying to shed money and won’t take them on. Which leads me to SD side of this. I know they are rumored to be shedding money to stay out of the tax and it makes sense they trade from SP that they have Darvish, Musgrove, Manaea, Clevinger, Snell, Gore, Martinez. Musgrove is having a great year and is a FA after the season, along with Manaea and Clevinger being FA after this year. Snell is signed at $13.1 this season and $16.6 next.
Mo has gotten into this weird habit of targeting middle-tier players and giving them deals that are just a little too long and too much. I still don’t understand his unwillingness to tip his toe back into the short-term, high-value contracts he once exploited with success
I agree Kyl. Some people get hung up on the total contract amount but I think the length of contract is a big factor for a team like the Cardinals? Why? Because they will absolutely refuse to give up on a player before the last year of his contract no matter how bad he is, which results in dead roster spots that could be utilized by players from Memphis. No matter how bad Verhagen or Matz is they will stay on the roster because they signed multi-year deals. Verhagen should have been a one year deal and Matz should have been a two year deal, three at the most.
This is why the Cardinals kept Dexter Fowler until the last year of his deal. They kept Brett Cecil until the last year of his deal. They kept Matt Carpenter until his deal ran out. They DFA’d Greg Holland early but that was a one year deal. They cut bait on Mike Leake early but had to pay on the remainder of the contract to do it. Paul DeJong is off the roster but is still in the organization so it will be interesting to see what they do with him.
Mo just doesn’t have a good history with multi-year deals so he should stop doing it!
I would like for us to acquire Soto from the Nationals. I’ve been hearing and reading names being tossed about so I am interested in hearing what posters think might be a good enough package for us to pull the trigger on a Soto trade.
Thoughts?
Rat, I respect you on here 100%, but any package suggested is to much and not worth it. Dewallet isn’t going to give out 500M contracts in our lifetimes.
In the next 91 minutes, picks or SPers for Gomez, Nunez, Capel, Woodford, Paniagua, etc are what I’m hoping to see
I think the appeal of acquiring Snell is that it shouldn’t cost you much more than money. Based on reports, the only reason SD would consider dealing him is to get his money off the books for next season, so they have some breathing room under the luxury tax to make some moves, including resigning Musgrove and/or Clevenger. If the Cardinals are willing to pay the rest of the $13M he’s owed this year and $16M next year, they should basically tell Preller the best you are getting someone like Luken Baker from the Cardinals system.
In looking at Soto’s numbers there is really only ONE thing that leaps out at me. That’s his .351 batting average in the virus shortened 2020 season. He’s only hit over 30 homeruns once, in 2019. His career batting average is below .300. And he’s only hitting .250 this year. Plus he’s only knocked in 100 or more runs once.
So, I guess the question is……Why do the Nationals think he is the greatest player on the planet and they should get a kings ransom in a trade for him?
r/Esteemed Rat
23, controlled for 2 more years, 145 BB/93 K last year, 79 BB/54 K this year, 160 career OPS+, which is what he’s at this year again. Lots if reasons he’s not going to be a Cardinal because it’s going to take O’Niell, Walker, Winn, Liberatore, Graceffo to even get them talking and they probably will want more or Cardinals to take on a lot of Corbin’s contract. According to BTV those 5 are a 158 to Soto’s 166.5 himself.
If the Nationals attach Corbin to Soto, the return should be very minimal. The guy is still owed $59 million after this season. Between paying that off and what will be owed to Soto, the Nationals will not be able to get both financial freedom and a prospect haul.
I am not in favor of trading for Soto. This guy just supposedly turned down $440M!! And he is repped by Scott Boras. There is very little chance the Cardinals would sign him long term. The Cardinals have never come close to offering that kind of money to one player. So we would be sending a massive haul to Washington for two years of Soto. No thanks.
I guess if you could guarantee me the Cardinals would win a World Series with him I would do it but those guarantees don’t exist.
Soto is a 2 year rental for any team that will not meet Boras’ contract demands, which likely means all 30 MLB teams. If the Cardinals were to offer Burleson, McGreevy, and Malcolm Nunez for Soto, who’s going to beat that offer? Traditionally, there is always a sleeper team that is committed to acquiring a certain player no matter what, but so far there’s no indication of which team that would be.
A lot of teams would beat that. Then you also create a log jam in the OF. And according to BTV you created 32.7 in trade value, your 1/5 the way there. They don’t have to trade him, they are listening. It’s going to take overwhelming offer.
There’s absolutely no way I consider trading for Soto. Way to many prospects needed and they’ll never sign him.
Here’s an analysis of Soto’s possible trade destinations.
I like Bader a lot. but his plantar fasciitis has me worried. Supposedly, it takes 2 months to 2 years for it to heal, and then after it’s healed, I think you can get it back. Pujols had to deal with it when he was in Anaheim, and maybe that’s why his production was down. If Bader is okay, there is a logjam in the outfield. If he’s not okay, then think of an outfield of O’Neill, Carlson, and Soto for the next two years. Then Walker can take over RF.
Yeah, I’ve read it. “The Cardinals also have the ability to offer a package that includes some combination of Jordan Walker, Masyn Winn, Dylan Carlson, and Tyler O’Neill, among others”. No thanks. You say “Then Walker can take over RF”. They don’t have Soto without giving up Walker, guaranteed.
If Walker has to be part of the trade, the Cardinals better say no thanks and hang up the phone. I’m not sure who I would trade Walker for. It would take someone who’s head and shoulders above everyone and controlled for quite a while. He just has the look of a stud who will carry this team. I think he’s going to be our next Goldschmidt or possibly Pujols.
There always seems to be some mystery team that comes out of the blue to land a player like Soto. But it’s hard to figure which team that would be. The usual culprits are the Dodgers and Yankees, but they’re already up against the luxury tax. And besides, both of those teams are way ahead in their Division. So who is going to make an overwhelming offer for Soto since he is, for sure, a 2 year rental? The Nationals don’t have to trade him, but if they don’t, they get nothing when he leaves. If the Cardinals were not in the ‘win now’ mode, I don’t think they would give up a player like Burleson for a 2 year rental.
If they would acquire Soto, and assuming that Walker and a few others are untouchable, would they have enough talent left to acquire a pitcher?
They were just talking on MLB Network and Washington basically has him on the market to try to get as much as possible. Cardinals were mentioned and said probably starts with the likes of Carlson, Gorman, Liberatore, plus.
Like I’ve said. No thanks. Get a couple pitchers.
I heard that, too. They also said that there has never been a player like Soto being shopped with 2.5 years left before free agency. This is just a guess. But it could be that the Nats are trading him because they’re pissed. Soto is their pride and joy, the face of their franchise. They made an aggressive offer to sign him up long term, and Boras told them to flake off. Again, I’m just guessing, just trying to figure this out. One more thing….just sayin’….the Goldschmidt trade and the Arenado trade were both impossible.
I think Washington realizes realistically they are more than 3 years from competing again. Bad contracts in Straburg and Corbin, thin in top prospects, some of their recent prospects like Carter Kieboom haven’t panned out, their #4 prospect Jackson Rutledge (STL kid) has struggled bad in A ball at 23 years old, they got C Ruiz and SP Gray (LAD #1 and #2 prospects) for Turner and Scherzer last deadline but the other 2 in Casey and Carrillo (LAD #17) have struggled. With all that they are dangling a 23 year old with 2.5 years of control who is one of the best bats in MLB and trying to reload a thin system to rebuild.
The market is super thin. There’s only 10 sellers, there aren’t big time options available, the cost of anything is going to be high and I think Washington sees it and is thinking they can get an absolute haul for him right now and try to reload their system to compete in 3 years, but if there isn’t an offer they like they can try again in the off season with little change. Especially if a team views him as a better option than spending on Judge oe loses out on Judge.
This is going to be an interesting two weeks. I suspect Soto is going to end up in St. Louis. And the pieces we give up will not really be a factor since we now have Soto. I just hope he’s worth what we give up. If he hits .275 with 26 homeruns and 87 rbi’s in 2023 and 2024 then we got fleeced. If he hits over .300 with 30+ homeruns and 100+ rbi’s then I would say we got a pretty good deal.
r/Esteemed Rat
If Soto ends up in St. Louis, I don’t believe it will be because we overpaid. MO typically overpays for free agents, but his trades are usually fair for both sides. If it happens, there’s going to be some pain. But I don’t think that pain will extend out to Walker, Winn, Herrera, and hopefully, not to Hence. I can’t see them trading Pallante or Graceffo, either. I think that there are teams that would consider Burleson untouchable given his stats and rapid rise through the system. Burleson, Malcolm Nunez, and a pitcher should be enough given that Soto is a 2 year rental.
I think it’s going to be far too costly to get Soto. Plus, he’ll sign with the Dodgers, or Yankees after 2024. And we have pitching issues far more glaring.
Mud, I think you’re WAY low. They would absolutely laugh at that offer. Washington isn’t even talking unless it starts with Walker AND Winn AND Liberatore or Carlson AND Gorman.
According to BTV Walker, Winn, Liberatore = 110.8. Carlson and Gorman= 133.10. Soto himself is 176.8.
It cost LAD their #1,#2,#17, and another for 1.5 year of Turner and .5 year of Scherzer.If they do it, which I hope they don’t, it’s going to be COSTLY
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