August 30, 2017 at 1:28 pm #31990Brian WaltonKeymasterPaid - Annual
Yes, Weaver lost his rookie eligibility earlier this month. The key point I was attempting to make is that the arms likely to pick up Leake’s innings are relatively inexperienced.August 30, 2017 at 1:46 pm #31996
The trade wasn’t for the Cardinals to acquire anything from the Mariners. Ascanio = Pete Kozma, at best.
The trade was to sent Leake elsewhere, freeing up both a rotation slot (for Waino’s return, if nothing else) and giving management more payroll flexibility to sign a ‘hopefully’ better starter going forward.
2018 rotation (as of now)
??August 30, 2017 at 1:54 pm #32000
Massive question mark next to Wainwright as well.August 30, 2017 at 1:58 pm #32001
Absolutely, Pads. I don’t expect that projected rotation to hold up at all. But Waino will be slotted into that rotation unless he either a) voluntarily moves into the bullpen or b) is injured so badly he can’t pitch at all.August 30, 2017 at 2:27 pm #32006
I understand that they moved him to make room and all, just not sure that the guy that we got was the best that we could have done, unless things with Leake were that bad…August 30, 2017 at 2:40 pm #32007
Leake also had a NTC which makes it really tough to deal him. Finding a match between teams interested in him and teams he’s willing to play for could have been tough.August 30, 2017 at 2:48 pm #32010
That clears room for stanton imo.. just saying.
Yeah.. We gave him away. We also have ready replacements that are cheaper.
I want to see how this plays out before I say positive things because this seems … Incomplete.
But given our history… Not sure I care for this in some ways. We dont exactly have a history of bringing in big time talent… This only makes sense if we clear out fowler too which mostly/kinda resets our money situation.August 30, 2017 at 3:19 pm #32014RatsbuddyParticipantFree
I agree Brianpnoonan, we now have $$$ for Stanton.
And does anybody have any idea if Alex Reyes will be ready for the rotation at the start of 2018? Or will he be a bullpen guy?August 30, 2017 at 3:26 pm #32015
Re Reyes – the max IP he’s ever gone in a season is 116.1 in 2015. (went 111.1 IP last season)
Coming off major surgery it’s not clear what he’ll be able to do in ’18. But spending an entire season in a rotation is unlikely.August 30, 2017 at 3:51 pm #32018Bw52ParticipantPaid - Annual
Still think getting Stanton is a pipe dream.No way in hell the Cards take on that much salary.I think Lynn gets more money than Cards want to pay.I think Cards go young with the rotation next season.
All should get Spring training chances .August 30, 2017 at 4:00 pm #32020
Reyes is a bullpen guy next year.
I think stanton is a pipe dream as well. But we should have the space now… If we want.
In my opinion theyre not done selling. Maybe finish in the offseason but still.August 30, 2017 at 4:03 pm #32021
Stanton may be to much however I don’t see any of the guys besides him that some want to trade for that would fit that bill for more than a year or two before they’d either be gone or want to much money…maybe go back to try to get Trout instead…or get Stanton and then trade him later on for a king’s ransom…August 30, 2017 at 4:07 pm #32024
… The noise of mo saying we have too many players for spots in our outfield says they’re not done selling by the way.
So I’m not just blowing smoke. There might be several trades coming at some point yet.August 30, 2017 at 10:19 pm #32054bccranParticipant
Both Grichuk and Piscotty might be on the bubble.August 30, 2017 at 10:50 pm #32055858booyahParticipantFree
Giancarlo Stanton doesn’t fix the Rotation and bullpen issues surrounding this team. That’s too much to ask this ownership to Pay Lynn over 20 million a year and take on most of Stanton’s contract even with the Oprah rich TV deal they’ll walk into. Even then it’s a shaky situation with your pen and having Waino and Wacha being your 3-4 and likely looking internally for a closer.
My guess is they seriously look at a band aid with Donaldson at 3rd via trade and sign Lynn and hope Alex Reyes can solve the closer issue. I’d also bet on Piscotty or Grichuk being jettisoned somewhere.August 30, 2017 at 11:37 pm #32058
The problem again with getting someone like Donaldson is that he’s a Band-Aid to who…there really isn’t any outfielder that we’re waiting on, he’d only be a temporary fix but we then couldn’t resign him and then we’d be left in the same spot that we are now, at least with Stanton we’d get more out of him in a trade and at the best he’d be with us for a good long while. As for the pitching we don’t need high priced pitchers to fill the spots as Cecil has shown us…or trade for Trout and give him an 8 year deal or something like that…August 31, 2017 at 8:12 am #32069mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
The Stanton contract has set a new floor for contract length at 13 years. I would think that an offer for less than 13 years would be below the dignity of players like Trout, Harper, and Manny Machado. Neither Boras, nor any of the other elite agents, wouldn’t stand for it.August 31, 2017 at 8:27 am #32071CariocaCardinalParticipantPaid - Monthly
If those players were age 24 when they signed long term deals they might get 13 years also. But they wont be.August 31, 2017 at 8:33 am #32072thejagerParticipantPaid - Annual
The thing with a Donaldson deal is that it IS a band aid….a band aid that bridges to more potential quality FA offseason in 2018… He will still require a decent trade, but now that he wont be traded during the year means he wont be allowed to give up a compensation pick if traded during next year after being acquired this offseason. Which lowers his value some, only getting one year lowers his value, his relatively poor year lowers it some too (though he has come on strong late)…he still will cost some, but less than a month ago…
you also get the opportunity, if you like him to re-sign him if you want to try that, he is one of the good FAs (even if a bit older than the others) for that offseason.
Still, he is a band aid, and if we are just trying to hold our money until that offseason then spending a little bit NOW but not tying any up after this year, puts us in a good place to shovel money into the following offseason while still upgrading the team for next year. It woudl all come down to who is lost in that deal…
to me…if i wanted him i would have done it early July…he might have been just what we needed to get in this year… now…without getting a compensation pick, and probably losing too many good prospects…i just dont see it being as worth while…
To me if we are going to lose good prospects, then we should get really good stuff back, i’d rather go all in on a Stanton deal, and sign Lynn.
One other thing i wondered about the Leake deal and subsequent calling up of Flaherty…was whether we were using the rest of this season not just to evaluate Flaherty whiel trying to get into the playoffs, but also whether we using this time with Flaherty to show him off to other teams as we may consider using him as a big part of a trade in the offseason
Think how valuable Wacha looked after he came up and dominated early…with his cheapness and high value we could have gotten a king’s ransom for him…
MAYBE we are doing that with Flaherty (and maybe even Weaver too)August 31, 2017 at 9:21 am #3207514NyquisTParticipant
Any moves the Cards make are like the Leake deal. A surprise. So anyone you all think the Cards will try to acquire most likely won’t happen. Something will come down, but not what is expected.
This Leake thing is like the more you think you know the more you find out how much you don’t know. It’s all in Mozeliak’s head…. no one can predict what’s in there.
I’ve said for nearly two seasons that Leake is not a good fit for this team. Just as I was getting used to the fact that he’d be here because of his sweet contract… swooosh he’s gone. A salary dump or to clear room for Flaherty, probably both. Do we really need a guy like Ascanio? Did we take him because he’s not wanted in their organization? It appears that he has very little or no value at all. He’s almost a JMartinez(SS) clone only with an even weaker bat.
Maybe the worst catcher in their organization would have been better. Jesse Jenner (MEM) just went on the DL, so here we go again with the musical chairs. Maybe Knizner will be sent to AAA to replace Lino as the starter?August 31, 2017 at 12:57 pm #32088CardsRedSox4EverParticipantFree
Ascanio who? This Leake deal seems more about opening a roster slot and freeing up some cash than making a notable improvement for this year. Agree there is much more to this than we all know right now. My guess is an outfield move is next, and hope to high heaven it’s Grichuk.
I would urge Mo to stick to first principles — the biggest need on this team is relief pitching, specifically a closer, so go for that first. Then work the outfield with Grichuk and Piscotty on the table, both of whom have reasonable trade value even though their recent performance has waned. Fowler can’t carry a team, but he’s good when others around him are playing well. I would keep him, but what do I know? Lynn is a solid above average pitcher, but his cost as a FA would be marginal value. There are a lot of pitchers who can win 8-10 games per year for a lot less money, so is $20m/yr for Lynn worth an extra 3-4 wins? I say no. Good news is Cards have some good options, just hope they execute right.September 1, 2017 at 6:26 am #32127
Mozeliak wasted almost $14.25M this year on Brayan Pena, Jonathan Broxton, and Jhonny Peralta. We don’t have any money committed to waste yet for 2018 so Leake will be it!September 1, 2017 at 6:30 am #32128
The breakdown is interesting:
acquired by Seattle in trade from St. Louis 8/30/17, with $55,622,950 remaining on contract (Cardinals pay Mariners $17.5M: $2.5M in 2017, $6M in 2018, $5M in 2019, $4M in 2020)September 1, 2017 at 6:40 am #32129
With Leake getting traded and Siegrist and Rosenthal like 99% gone as well, I have our 2018 payroll down to $123.25M. It was sitting around $151.18M this year. Given we usually increase payroll anywhere from $5-$12M a year, that gives us about $30-40M to spend this off=season even though we have a pretty full roster (even if it’s not competitive, it’s full)
Our worst hitting regular (Molina) and our worst performing starter (Wainwright) now comprise 30% of the payroll. LOL.September 1, 2017 at 7:41 am #32130RatsbuddyParticipantFree
Molina is our worst hitting regular? I thought he was around .280? Arent Grichuk, Fowler, Carpenter, etc, all down around .240?
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