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I’d rather see us pay Arenado 14mil by this deadline, rather than dfa 13mil Soler by the deadline.
Arenado is making $19 million, Soler is making $16 million. That’s $3 million in savings. Then pay $13 million of Soler’s $16 million to trade him to a team like the Pirate or Royals who are looking for offense and willing to take a flyer because he is cheap. And by trade, I mean “cash considerations or a player to be named later.” Those two moves combined can save the Cardinals $6 million this year and $15 million in 2027.
Would you still rather pay Arenado?
25 I think he meant worst for the Cardinals. He has no purpose here. In fact negative purpose.
Nope. He was 29th out of 33 qualified third basemen, according to Fangraphs. Nolan Gorman was one of the few that were worse. Thomas Saggese proved in the minors that he can’t play 3B. Prieto is not a good defender anywhere. So, that leave Fermin and Wetherholt who can possibly be better 3B for the Cardinals.
But if Arenado is bad for the Cardinals, why would he be good on a team trying to win?
Oops. I made an error last night. I meant to quote this section from jj’s post when addressing the Dodgers WAR model:
The numbers might say 2B is more valuable than LF, but putting out roster fires in LF, 3B, etc., should bring extra value.
“It’s frustrating for me because I haven’t performed well,” Soler said. “And I need to play to perform. And it’s kind of frustrating to me because I want to play to put up some good numbers, and so far the injury issues haven’t let me play enough.”
That is why the Dodgers WAR model adds WAR to players who play multiple positions.
I mentioned Soler back in September. This is the easiest path to an Arenado trade. Soler can be penciled in as the RH option for DH and corner outfield. He’s had a 114 OPS+ over the last 3 years and an .860 OPS vs LH pitching in his career.
So, I heard something the other day that Soler was upset about playing the outfield this past year.
“I mean, I haven’t played in the outfield for a while for years,” Soler said. “And then coming here and playing it, it’s tough.”
“It’s frustrating for me because I haven’t performed well,” Soler said. “And I need to play to perform. And it’s kind of frustrating to me because I want to play to put up some good numbers, and so far the injury issues haven’t let me play enough.”
Sounds like he wants to be used in the outfield sparingly.
Can you give any sort of reasoning behind this? While I don’t see him as being a key cog on a pennant winner, there’s a big gap between averageish 3B and “one of the worst third basement in the league.”
Where does he rank on the Fangraphs Leaderboard for third basemen?
Does that look “average”?
Bregman signs
Suarez signs
Arenado tradedI don’t see how it doesn’t happen in that exact order
I think you mean Donovan gets traded in your third line. Boston/Bregman is clearly holding up the Donovan trade market.
Cardinal fans need to accept that Arenado is now one of the worst third basemen in the league, and should not in any way be impacted by the free agent market for the top free agent third baseman.
I tried building a bandwagon to trading Donnie and Jojo and maybe Noot together for a better package of two top prospects. Can we all jump on?
Nope. The Cardinals will get more prospects by splitting them up. Each of those guys will bring back 2-3 prospects on their own.
I mentioned Soler back in September. This is the easiest path to an Arenado trade. Soler can be penciled in as the RH option for DH and corner outfield. He’s had a 114 OPS+ over the last 3 years and an .860 OPS vs LH pitching in his career.
Well, it is the best path to save as much money as possible.
The Cardinals could simply pay down all but $2-5 million of Arenado’s contract. But by taking back Soler at $3 million in savings in 2026, they can potentially save a few million dollars more in 2026 by paying down his contract instead of Arenado’s.
If Bregman doesn’t sign with Boston, then Arenado and Donovan will both be offered to Boston, IMO.
If the Red Sox don’t get Bregman, I think their first option will be Isaac Paredes. But Houston likely wants Payton Tolle or Connelly Early, and I think Boston would be more likely to give up Witherspoon, since he is farther away from the majors.
I assume the pitcher would have to declare which arm he is going to use, and then the hitter would follow suit by batting the opposite side?
Yes, the pitcher has to declare first.
Anyway, if the Cardinals can get a package from Boston that includes Witherspoon, that would be my preference.
But if Seattle puts the best package together, and it is headlined by Cijntje, I do think it would make the farm system better and would be rooting for the Cardinals pitching gurus to show us what they can do.
So, here’s what Fangraphs said:
Right-handed Cijntje is a Dude. He’s touched 99 mph and sits in the mid-to-high 90s with bat-missing carry.
He’s touched 95 from that side, but tends to work either side of 90, without bat-missing shape or sharp command
So, I’ll amend my earlier statement to say he can hit 95 mph from either side.
I do think it is amazing that people think a guy who developed his weaker arm into the better one in college can’t develop his dominant arm in the pros.
The summer after his senior year, he floored scouts at the MLB draft combine in San Diego. From the left, he threw a 96 mph fastball and an 80 mph breaking ball. From the right, he hurled a 92 mph heater and a 75 mph curve.
Cjintje is naturally a lefty, and in HS could hit 96 with his left, and only 92 with his right.
In college, he faced far more right-handers than left-handers, so that is the arm that developed more.
It stands to reason that if he spent more time developing his naturally dominant arm, it would become better over time.
Where are you getting your info that Cijntje throws 98 from both sides?
It was actually something I read in passing the other night.
This is Google’s AI Overview:
Jurrangelo Cijntje’s fastball is a key part of his unique ambidextrous pitching, delivering impressive velocity and life from both arms, typically sitting mid-90s (touching 99+) right-handed with explosive life and low-90s (touching 95+) left-handed
About one minute into this video Cjintje threw 97mph right handed.
At the beginning of BA’s review of the Mariners Farm System, they ranked Cjintne as having the best fastball in the Mariners system.
I still have some work to do today, I’ll try to find more later.
The problem with switch pitchers is history is not good at all, and the mechanics usually become issues
Are the odds demonstrably different than pitchers in general?
I would guess there is not enough of a sample size to draw such inferences.
And Cjintje is rare in that he throws 98 mph from both sides. That probably makes him a 1 of 1.
The opt-outs would not have been ok for a rebuilding franchise.
If he pitches well enough to opt out, you just slap a QO on him…
But yes, $18 million was out of the Cardinals budget this year…they need to be shopping in the Mike Lorenzen aisle of about $7 million per year…DeWitt needs to pocket some money!!!
I might be more interested in Cintje if the Mariners had dropped the left handed side of his switch pitching.
Isn’t he naturally left-handed, and developed the right hand trying to mimic his father?
I think it would be interesting if he gets hit with an injury to one arm though, and can just switch over, assuming the LH side becomes major league worthy.
Yes, that is one way.
Or perhaps they use him as a stopper to save the bullpen, and he goes first time through the order right handed, second time through the order left-handed and third time through the order right handed. That might be an approach worth testing in the minors.
Crazy that people think the Cardinals should adopt the Angels model of rushing players to MLB in one year….
I am finally at the point that the Cardinals should give Arenado plus the $5 million of Rockies money and $20 million of Cardinals money to whoever gives the best return.
Even if the Cardinals pay down nearly all of Arenado’s contract, they are unlikely to get anything back. As Kyle mentioned on the podcast, when the Cardinals traded Dexter Fowler, the return was PBTNL or cash. That is what Arenado will likely return.
If Bernal had not collapsed in the second half of the season, it would have been imperative to move Crooks to allow Bernal to progress.
But Bernal did collapse, so Crooks and Bernal get to run it back at the same levels.
If Sloan isn’t included, I would deal with other teams.
The Cardinals may prefer Cjintje to Sloan. We don’t know which team proposed Cjintje in the trade.
One of our top lefty prospects like a Mautz could be included if the return is substantial.
I don’t see adding a prospect to the trade as something that increases the value value to the other team such that they would give up a prospect that is otherwise untouchable.
Another way of describing it could be ‘Does a team as a whole play better because of certain intangibles like veteran presence and exceptional defense by other players?’
You cannot include intangibles in a statistical model because they violate the principles of statistics: The observations must be observable, repeatable and measurable.
